Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by MrsWood, Jan 30, 2018.
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Tell her $16 is 2-3 packs of cigarettes. What's that....3 days or so...maybe less
@MrsWood, As I was catching up on this thread; I saw a few things I couldn't resist responding to:
First; you're welcome! I am pleased if it helped. Many good folks have helped me (some of them helping you here), and I am glad if I can do the same for others.
Second; don't be too worried about the math (though it is nice to have a general understanding), and follow Anna's advice, to find (and use) an e-liquid calculator that works for you. There are calculators for computers, pads, and phones. They come specific for certain platforms like Windows, android, and ???.
There are even on-line calculators that do not require any downloads.
If you want direction toward more specific options; tell us more about what type of device you would like to use it on, and what you would like it to do, and we can offer some suggestions. (Calculators can run from very simple; to more complex ones that can record notes, save recipes, track inventory, and even offer secondary calculators that can answer "what if" questions like your initial one.)
And third; regarding where to buy flavors:
There are many good places to shop. At the very top of every ECF page (including this one), along the top row of clickable tabs, you will see the third tab labeled "Star Suppliers." This are all safe choices (as in you get what you order; and they don't steal your information. Most have Vendor specific threads in the vendors forum, where you can ask questions).
Vendors that I personally use, and feel good about recommending to others are (in order of shopping frequency):
Bull City Flavors - Broad selection of flavor concentrates. Does not carry nicotine.
One Stop DIY Shop - I love this place; and the family who operate it. You will find none better. Like Bull City; they do not carry nicotine. The only reason they do not rank first for me, is they carry a limited selection of flavors compared to Bull City. However, of I can find it at OSDIYS, I prefer to buy it there. And, as JCinFla mentioned, they have a fantastic selection of proprietary one-shot flavors (both One Stop Flavors and One Stop Blends)
Bulk Apothecary - This is a niche vendor; as they don't really cater to DIY. But they are my sole source for PG and VG. No flavors. No nic.
Heartland Vapes - This is another great smaller company. They are who I buy my nicotine from; clean, good quality, and some of the least expensive I have found.
Wizard Labs - This is another "big kid on the block," and they offer nic as well as a large selection of flavors.
ecig express - Yet another large contender in the DIY marketplace. If I cant find it at those listed above; I can usually find it here.
And honorable mention (I haven't purchased yet from this vendor:
Nicotine River - It seems like quite a few people here in the ECF DIY threads, use and swear by them. They offer the Purilum line of flavors (the only vendor in the US???) which has been getting good reviews and peaking my interest. I have read enough comments that I would feel that I would get what I ordered and my information would be safe. I personally would not hesitate ordering from them.
There are tons of other perfectly reputable DIY vendors out there; I just don't know enough about them to comment.
As for what is/are the "best" flavors... nobody but you can answer that. And that is going to take some experimenting. Purchase the smallest size available to start (until you know whether or not you like it). Then, if you want more, you can buy larger sizes for added cost savings.
And just because two different manufactures sell a flavor they call "<insert the flavor name of your choice here>"; doesn't mean they will taste the same. You may like one and not the other. You may think they both are missing something; but then you discover you like some combination of the two. No one else can tell you what flavor is going to be your holy grail; we can only share what we perceive in our own mouths. If you become a flavor chaser; this is where the time and expense can become maddening. A lucky few hit on a single winner that is their go-to vape for years and years, and they just laugh at the rest of us who are forever chasing that next "best" flavor.
Don't fixate on dropping your nicotine; or start out too low. There are many chemicals found in cigarettes, that help to drive up the addiction level of tobacco, that you are not getting now. Their absence can be contributing to anxiety you feel. Maybe even bump up you nicotine a bit to start. This may help to keep the cigarette craving in better check.
I was a 1½ pack-a-day smoker for 35+years (camel filters, american spirit blues). When I quit I started at 18mg/mL e-liquid and that was not doing it. The local shop told me to try 24mg/mL. That did the trick. After a week, week and a half; it became too much and I returned to the 18mg/mL; but now I was satisfied. Then, over the course of the next year, I weened myself down to 6mg/mL. For the last three years I have been bouncing from 3mg/mL to 6mg/mL.
While the 3mg/mL was kinda/sorta "doing it" for me; I noticed that I constantly/chronically had a vape in my hand... and I didn't like it. So recently I started moving back up. I am actually back to 18mg/mL; but I can easily go for more than an hour without thinking about my vape (if I am occupied; I have gone several hours before I even realize I haven't had a vape).
I am not suggesting you vape more nicotine than you need; just don't be stingy with yourself!
Nicotine is one of the least harmful toxins found in cigarette smoke (my opinion only). So if a little more in my vape makes my life easier; I'm not going to give it a second thought.
Buying nic in a blend (PG, VG, and nicotine already combined) is convenient. Many DIYers start out with that because one ingredient is easier (and less intimidating) than one. Some mixers like this convenience; and stick with it.
Other mixers find the all-in-one ingredient limiting; and either have to buy PG or VG (or both) anyway. And others (like me) find the price break of volume buying (PG and VG by the gallon(s), and nic by the liter), too much to resist. It also appeals to my anal-retentive nature; because it allows me to easily adjust to hit all my numbers (PG/VG ratios, nic content, and flavor content) regardless of percentages.
To be fair; there is certainly a significant number, who find obsession with numbers much too tedious, and are perfectly content with some variation. They are perfectly happy; and they are just as correct doing it their way, as I am in mine.
As for getting nic in all PG, or all VG: It depends on how strong of a concentration you intend to buy. The stronger the concentration ---> the less you have to use ---> the less it will influence your final PG/VG ratio. If you are staying low (from your 6mg/mL to 48mg/mL range) and you like 30PG/70VG, I might suggest getting VG-based nic to give you maximum room for flavor. But otherwise; it shouldn't matter much.
Also keep in mind, you will still want to have both plain PG, and plain VG on hand; to arrive at your final ratio. Rarely does the correct amount of flavor concentrate (for best taste), and a particular PG/VG ratio, happily meet; without a bit of extra PG and/or VG.
Nic in PG, is certainly easier drawing up in a syringe, when measuring by volume; while I like pouring VG-based nic for measuring by weight (the slower pour helps keep me from over-pouring).
PG, is one component that influences throat hit. So does nicotine (brand, and amount), and hardware setup (temperature, power, airflow, coil build, even atomizer design).
This might be another reason to consider bumping up your nicotine a bit.
Another option to try, is intentionally oxidizing your nic base (only start with a small test sample to see if this is right for you)(if, and when, you think this might be for you, ask and we can discuss it further).
As for DIYing tobacco; there are those who vape nothing else. ECF even has a thread dedicated to nothing but the discussion of synthetic tobacco concentrates; and a whole sub-forum to natural tobacco extraction (but that is a whole different kettle of fish).
I was not able to vape tobacco flavors in the beginning. They were the one thing that would get me jonesing for a cigarette. It was only about a year ago I revisited them and found them quite satisfying. I have just begun to scratch the surface.
That may be too much power for the coils you are trying to use. If it were me; I would drop it to 20 watts, and the move up in 2 watt increments, until I got a satisfying vape for the full duration. If it is still harsh/burnt at 20 watts; go even lower. Some coil heads do just fine in the 5-11 watt range.
Also, keep in mind, airflow can affect throat hit as well. The more airflow, the cooler the coil is kept. If the airflow is closed way down, the coil will get hotter. So, opening up the airflow, and/or lowering the wattage can help cool the coil.
I have an overload of information. I will definitely be lurking in the tobacco thread today soaking up information. In the beginning tobacco flavors were all I wanted. To me the other flavors just weren't giving me that first puff of a cigarette taste which left me carrying quarters everywhere in hopes of giving someone a quarter for a cigarette(this was during my 2016 attempt at quitting on a Kangertech SubVod. I made it 11 days).
I have now learned to broaden my flavor horizons. Through the free ejuice I aquired in a somewhat bad trade though not as bad as I originally thought, after learning how to properly use the tank and coils. I now like a few flavors I never thought I would and found a few new tobacco flavors as well!
I needed that about not dropping my nic levels. Several of the vape shops have suggested 6mg which is why I started there and my wife is adamant that I shouldn't increase(she's never smoked and does not understand how hard quitting is). I do have one 12mg bottle of a flavor I don't like and one 18mg bottle that is a 50/50 blend and a little too harsh for me, I have been mixing in 5-7 drops of it to whatever I am vaping.
Thank you so much for all the site suggestions. I am wary about purchasing from anything other than my trusted sites after seeing the ones that people here have had good luck with here I am now comfortable purchasing from those places as well.
I am currently using the ego one mega with a 1.0Ω coil on an itaste mvp pro 3.0 and vaping at 18.5w. I am finally able to hit it for more than 1.8s without a burn. I am now hitting for about 3s - 3.5s which seems to be working better for me.
Thank you so very much for all of the information in your post and the time you took to write it.
@MrsWood , may I just say, you are doing fantastic. Keep up the good work! You are using ECF just like I did at the start, any question/issue I just posted here, and it got me up and vaping and having successes, so fast! It's a great feeling, but I just want you to know that you are doing a great job, congrats on resolving so many of your "new" issues and pouring all your "smoking quitting" blues into "interest in vaping." Congrats on your vaping journey so far!
Thank you so much Anna! I am so thankful I found this forum! The help and information I have received from everyone here has been more than I could have hoped for! Somethings I am even making notes on to referemce later. Tomorrow the mod from my brother will be here and he sent it with an rba so I know by later tomorrow evening I will be full of questions! I have been watching videos on rbas and lurking in the forum reading what everyone has said about them and how to's. I am incredibly excited to start making my own eliquids and a big thank you to @JCinFLA that will now be happening sooner rather than later! I am still somewhat nervous about rba but am sure that will wear off quickly with the help and advice from everyone here!
Had a quick look at the ego one and looks to be a vertical coil that has a lot of layers of wicking according to this video. Vertical factory coil heads are notorious to have the wicking way to tight causing dryer hit problems. That much wicking would be very tight and choking the juiceflow and would get hot fast. Poke and work a pin through the holes and down from the top after removal of the screen that just controls splatter somewhat and maybe restrict airflow(IMO useless to have) to help loosen up the wicking a bit or go all the way with a new head to remove some of the wick by taking it apart. Practice on old heads first before opening a new one.
You don't go by the factory specs for power, start with half they say then go up little at a time especially if its a new head that isn't broken in yet, breaking in could take a couple atty fulls before things are worn in. Doesn't take much to cook a new build if you apply too much power too soon.
Thank you for this! I did use a small(very small) sewing needle and I ran it through two of the wicking holes on both my ego one mega tank coils which seemed to help quite a bit but didn't avoid the burn but when combined with a lower wattage (18.5w) I no longer experience the burnt taste. I am going to get an 0.5 coil today for it so thay I can vape at a higher wattage which is what I prefer. I actually posted a picture of the coil I have in this thread.
". I quit smoking 8 days ago using a kangertech kbox. I..."
I understand your desire to DIY since you are @ .4 ohm coils. This setting will use a lot of e-liquid. Rather than trying to be come proficient in DIY, I would concentrate on finding my own preferences in vape gear. Going to vaping in a few weeks is quite a bit to take in without adding the complexities of learning DIY'g overnight.
One shot flavors are starting to gain momentum for those interested in mixing their own and saving money.
I found one shot mixing to be close to the flavor advertised on the bottle and can provide some adjustment of the strength (percentage) of flavor. OS Mixing also is a good introductory to DIY.
Might like to visit:
One Shot Concentrates
Flavors - Gremlin - Gremlin DIY --- Known as "Gremlin DIY" = one shot?
One Shot Flavor Concentrates
AROMAER - ESSENCER - SMAGE
@MrsWood, did I read somewhere that you are in North Carolina? If so, just wanted you to know that Bull City Flavors, a highly regarded vendor, is located in Durham. I have used them several times with great success. I've also done well with OSDIY.
You are doing a fantastic job. I came here almost two years ago just like you...full of questions and excited about the possibilities of finally breaking from a cigarette addiction that was slowly but surely destroying my life. It does that to all of us who smoke. After 45 years of smoking (about two packs a day the last few years), I stopped. I stopped and really had very little problem doing it. It is, on some level, a miracle. But, there were some very practical steps along the way to that miracle.
I'm going to give you some advice that I got in the beginning, which I think was the absolute key to me dropping cigarettes forever on the day I had my first vape: Do not worry about how much nicotine your are using while trying to quit smoking, and do not worry about how much e-juice you use in the beginning. Those things can be adjusted as your journey continues, but in the beginning, do whatever it takes to get off the cigarettes.
I started at 24mg of nic. At first I was trying to get by on two or three ml of juice per day. The lady at the shop who sold me my first device and first juice told me I was not vaping enough juice because I told her I was still having some cravings, though more psychological than physical. She even told me if I couldn't afford the juice, she would give it to me. Her mantra was: Do whatever it takes to get off the cigarettes. You'll likely want to cut back eventually, but in the beginning, do whatever it takes. That was great advice, and it's the same advice that I pass along to you.
In many people's minds, nicotine is on the same level as arsenic. A poison. In truth, nicotine is more on the level of caffeine than arsenic. There are hundreds of chemicals in cigarettes, and in combination, those are much worse for us than nicotine.
Like I said, I started at 24mg of nic. That's fairly high but not unusual for a beginning vaper. After I started vaping more, I noticed I was feeling jittery. Too much nic in my system (too much coffee has the same effect on me). After a few weeks, I cut it to 18mg, and over the course of two years I have slowly lowered it to 10mg. I'm in no hurry to cut more at this time, but I know I can if I decide to do it.
I was puzzled why you seemed to be trying to get your wattage so high, and you noted you had to chain vape to beat the cravings. I think I know, now. Starting at 6mg of nic is quite low considering you were, like me, a fairly heavy smoker. No matter how high you go with the nic in the beginning, it will still be much less damaging to your health than cigarettes.
You're doing the right thing seeking advice from the wise folks on this forum, just as I did. One more piece of advice, though: Don't get in too big of a hurry, don't get overwhelmed trying to learn everything at once. It's a journey and a fun one. Like you, I wanted info on DIY, building coils etc. very early. But, I waited until I was settled on the basics of a satisfying vape before actually doing those things. It's fun, and I truly think it saved my life.
Bless you. Don't back down. You're making great progress, and never hesitate to ask questions or just offer your thoughts. In case you haven't noticed, folks on this forum love talking about vaping and especially love helping a beginner.
Thank you so very much for this! I am using 12mg currently, I don't care for the flavor but 6mg wasn't cutting it for me. I am still vaping almost non-stop but if I am occupied with something I can make it for about an hour. I am still slightly agitated so today I am going to go check a local shop for some 18mg with a higer vg ratio. 50/50 is like vaping finely shattered glass to me.
I am about an hour from Durham so this weekend I may ride that way and check them out!
I am more excited about DIY my own liquid than I am about RBA it will be a while before I try my hand at rba coils. As someone suggested though I may go ahead and start using rba coils and and keeping them for when I am ready to try.
Don't stress about using an rba, easier than it sounds. No reason to put it off.
Thank you! I have a 75w kbox coming from my brother who no longer uses it (I done much better with this mod than the ones I have now). I have decided in what I want from fasttech based on recommendations from the wonderful people here. I will be going with a Tesla 120w Steampunk in copper tone. I have yet to decide on the best tank for me(recommendations welcome). I have started checking out the sites you gave me and will continue to read through them. I am excited to DIY my liquid but for now rba's are on hold. I prefer TC vaping over wattage or at least from my experience so far. You're right though it is an overwhelming amount of information to take in and make decisions from!
I've always vaped 70vg/30pg, or something very close to it. It's not a big deal if you're off a few percentage points either way. I find too much pg to be harsh, but some really enjoy it.
You might want to state your tank preferences in another post. Something like the "best tank for me"
Might need to find out:
2. Can hold ?mls and must be able to see through.
3. Must have emphases on great flavor over clouds (or have both equally).
4. Replacement coils must be inexpensive and readily available, also would be nice if coils can be cleaned if not entirely used up (burnt).
5. Can be converted to RBA if needed.
6. Must have minimum "problems" postings.
7. Must use standard 510 drip tip.
8. Would like to be able to get replacement parts easily.
9. Vendor and manufacturer must stand by their warranty and be available by phone.
10. Must be the best value for the money.
Do not use this list because the tank above probably does not exist and you will turn off more folks who will think your putting them on. Suggest you pick a few that are important to you.
Anyway the list is only partial anyway, probably missed something. Never owned a tank.
I'm sorry if I got carried away; it all made sense in my mind! It sounds like you were able to follow it in spite of me. Well done!!!
This is a "just me" mention; but I found mint flavors to be quite helpful during my early vaping. Most fruits were too sweet and artificial tasting. Candy/dessert were waaay too sweet. But, for some reason, I found several mint e-liquids that worked for me.
If tobacco flavors are working for you; then that is great. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them. That was only something I had to avoid. That is the great thing about vaping. There are virtually limitless possibilities to make it work for you!
Nicotine is what is most often thought about in cigarettes. Most folks (esp. non-smokers) don't think about the tar, and the hundreds of other toxic chemicals/chemical compounds that are either added, or created by burning those cigarettes (most of which are far more harmful than the actual nicotine... and none of which you are getting when vaping). Perhaps your wife hasn't thought about that?
Another thing that might give her some comfort:
I don't know what you smoked; but you mentioned you smoked roughly 30 cigarettes a day. If you were smoking a full flavored cigarette; they are (ballpark) about 18mg/cigarette. 18mg times 30 cigarettes is 540mg of nicotine a day (18x30=540). To vape that same amount, you would have to vape:
using 24mg/mL,22.5 mL every day. (540÷24=22.5)
using 18mg/mL,30 mL every day. (540÷18=30)
using 12mg/mL,45 mL every day. (540÷12=45)
using 6mg/mL,90 mL every day. (540÷6=90)
using 3mg/mL,180 mL every day. (540÷3=180)
I don't know how much e-liquid you are going through (I use less than 6mL a day at 18mg/mL), but I doubt it is anywhere near these levels.
Now, please understand, I am not saying you need 24mg/mL, or that you ought to be vaping 22mL/day or more. 24mg/mL may be too harsh, or provide to much of a rush, or even make you feel queasy (one sign of too much nic). And, unless you are using some huge ultra-high wattage, ultra-low ohm, cloud-chucking rig; vaping even 22mL/day can be a challenge. What is important, is that you find the best combination of strength (mg/mL), and volume (mL), that is both pleasing, and satisfying; for you to lose the desire to smoke. (I think, as you move up in strength, you need/desire, for both cigarettes and constant vaping, will go down.)
So, moving up to a higher (more satisfying) nic level is not unreasonable, and is likely needed, for your success. I am sure she wants you to succeed; both for your own health, as well as the health of your family (everyone else exposed to your second-hand smoke). Yes, less nicotine is less harmful, but "less" is no good if you return to smoking (and that is what vaping is about; harm reduction).
Outstanding! Don't be afraid to go even lower if it is still not "perfect." Vaping satisfaction is a combination of the right amount of nicotine, flavor, and feeling (throat hit, temperature, density); and they are all affected by power and airflow. These vary, as you change hardware and/or e-liquid, and even your own perception changes day to day, and hour to hour.
Don't ever be shy to experiment! Remember it is all about what is best for you! Power down, power up, airflow more open, airflow more closed. Try different things (and combinations of things); you can always go back!
I'm happy to do it; and tickled pink when it helps!
How Much Nicotine Is In A Cigarette? - Vaping360
I just went there and read the article. I found that for me, the following quoted findings seem to be pretty "spot on" accurate. This is based on the nic mg of my DIY eliquid and the amount I use of it daily, in order for my TSH test results (indicating my thyroid regulation), my metabolism and energy level, and my weight...to be where it was when I was smoking 1-1.5 PAD for 42+ years. The last 20 years it was usually the 1.5 PAD.
"According to Prof. Bernd Mayer of the Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology at Karl-Franzens University Graz (Austria), “Smoking a cigarette results in uptake of approximately 2 mg of nicotine and gives rise to mean arterial plasma concentrations of about 0.03 mg/L (30 ng/ml).”
Since I'd been used to smoking 30 ciggies a day @ his estimate of about 2mg nic per cigarette...my body was used to getting about 60mg/day. My weight had been constant for more than 40 years. My energy level was always like the Energizer Bunny's, and my thyroid functioning was well regulated for the last 18 years that I smoked (after being diagnosed/treated for hyperthyroidism 19 years ago).
For the first 2 years after I quit smoking, I was vaping 6mg eliquids and about 8mL/day = 48mg of nic. That did its job of keeping me totally off the smokes. However, during the first 1.5 of those years I'd gained 18 pounds and my energy level had dropped to next to none. My doctor, (who's an endochronologist), slightly changed my thyroid meds, but it didn't help. It was finally discovered through more thorough testing than regular TSH testing...that my metabolism was indeed slightly whacked.
I then discussed raising my nic mg in my eliquid with him, to see if that would get me closer to what had been my daily intake while I was smoking. He agreed with trying that. For 3 months I vaped 6.5mg nic in my DIY, and was vaping the same 8mL per day = 52mg/day. I changed nothing else during that time period (amount of exercise, foods I ate, etc.). I dropped 9 pounds and my energy level went up a little! For the next 3 months I made my DIY @ 7mg nic, while still vaping 8mL/day = 56mg/day. Again, I'd changed nothing else, yet I dropped another 6 pounds and my energy level was back to "my normal". My TSH tests also showed my thyroid functioning and metabolism were both back to where they were before. I've been there ever since then. So, based on my own experiences, that 2mg/ciggy seems like it's pretty accurate, IMO.
If think there is many times a Numerical Disconnect between Cigarettes and what a given Vaper uses Nicotinewise.
Because the Nicotine in Cigarettes are Almost Always given as the amount of Nicotine the average person Absorbs when they smoke One Cigarette. Whereas the Nicotine in e-Liquids is stated as the Total Amount of Nicotine per 1 Milliliter of volume.
So Total Nicotine Absorption when someone Smokes can be pretty accurately gauged by just multiplying the Cigarette's Nicotine Rating by the number of Cigarettes per Day.
But for e-Cigarettes, things become Very Convoluted. Because different Types of Hardware yield Different Amounts of Nicotine Absorption. Couple that with the Wattages used can Range from something as low as 5 or 6 Watts. And can easily go into the Triple Digit mark. And that doesn't even take into account the Range of mg/ml levels that are used by Vapers.
Then, as if things weren't kinda a Mess already, throw in that Vaper's are Not Inhaling all those other Wonder Chemicals that are Added to Cigarette Tobacco. Which IMO, I was just as Addicted to as I was to the Nicotine in the Tobacco.
So Long Story Short. It is Difficult to Quantify what e-Liquid Nicotine Level(s) is Comparable (or Best) for a given Smoker who Smoked "X" number of cigarettes per day.
I agree to above comment. If the only danger is diluting down the strength then you will never know. Somebody using 6mg wouldn't know if they were vaping 3mg. You might vape more...
I highly recommend the "ejuicemeup" calculator. It's been around forever and I've been using it that long. <grin> Seriously, if you're looking at mixing at all, mix it all yourself - you won't be sorry. Here's the link: eJuice Me Up - Best eJuice Calculator You'll be amazed at how little the juice costs when you diy.
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