Mall Kiosk Concerns and Rant

[Dakota Jim]

Well the town I live in got it's 1st genuine e-cig vendor. Unfortunately it is kiosk in mall (this company seems to mainly only operate kiosks in malls - The Ocelot really likes them "sarcasm" - I feel the same way after talking to the "manager")

1. Pricing for some items seemed reasonable ie: Protank 2 for $22.95 which I thought was reasonable due to packaging looked like Kangers but upon getting it home I determined it was a knockoff - However they had a single 180mah 510 battery with a vision nano and a small usb charger (no wall plug) for $60, an ego style 650mah battery only for $29.95 (not VV) and an Innoken 134 (no batts, no charger, no tank) for $180.00

2. juice was proprietary (made in New Mexico) 15ml for $23.00 buy 3 get 1 free (What a deal -not)

The really scary part is this

They will custom blend your nic level for you right there by PUMPING NIC from a large bottle right there on the open counter of the KIOSK (not put up, not behind anything, not locked up, not really supervised) it appeared to have dripped on the counter also.

I asked the "manager" (he said he started vaping earlier this year) how it worked - He said they add about 4ml nic to flavored base to get 36mg juice (which I would assume works out to 100 mg nic - any DIYers reading this feel free to gasp now - but he did not know what strength it was - proprietary company info)

I now asked the manager what training the company gave him for mixing nic liquid and he said he was sent an email on how to set the ml dial on the pump and what settings to use for what strength they wanted up to 36mg but he has figured out ON HIS OWN how to mix it stronger if I wanted it stronger (gasp).

While I was there he sold 3 kits and juice to a group of what looked like junior high girls (he later told me that kids are his best customers)

I did try to impart some basic safety and common sense info to the "manager" but has he was a "professional e-cig technician and manager" and I am a doddering old fool (I am 52, he was 22) he new what was best.

Well needless to say I was extremely upset (kept it to myself) that this company (and this idiot) may at the least give vaping a black eye and at the worst KILL someone with their lack of safety with high strength nic.

I did talk to mall management (I used to have a restaurant in the food court a million years ago) about this and they stated they were already informed of this issue and the kiosk was leaving shortly - we'll see (kiosk rent is $30+ per square foot compared to $9-11 for regular store front shops)

 

[riseabovethestorm]

Wow.

"Kids are my best customers"?

Someone lock that guy up with a gorilla. The mall management should have removed the kiosk immediately, as they could possibly be held responsible for contributing to the delinquency of a minor if they knowingly allowed the vendor to sell age-restricted products to folks not of age to purchase said products. It's people like that that propagate the view that PVs are marketed to be appealing to children and minors in general. Crap like this really grinds my gears.

 

[wv2win]

That doesn't sound like a good situation. Taking the extra time to question him and make suggestions was a good thing you did.

We have a kiosk in the mall closes to me. They have been there for about 3 years. They sell Green Smoke but also some better Joye and Innokin models. I found their pricing to be reasonable considering their over-head which I believe for rent alone to be about $2200 a month.

The young guy who runs it told me he gets a fair number of 16 and 17 years olds wanting to buy kits but he stated he always cards people who look under 30 and will not sell to them. But interestingly enough, he also stated he gets parents of some of these high schoolers coming by and buying a kit for their kids because they want them to quit smoking. He sells to the parents, which makes sense as he can't control what they do with the kit. He also told me he has customers in Canada who email him with orders for eliquid that he fulfills for them.

 

[gingersnaps]

What the bleep!!!!!!!!? He's lucky it wasn't me that ran into him. I've been vaping 3 years and doing DIY. His setup is exactly what these fear mongerers are claiming ecig vendors are. I'm furious that he thinks a few months of vaping and reading an email qualifies him to run a shop. And selling to kids? Dam I'm mad.


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[riseabovethestorm]

That doesn't sound like a good situation. Taking the extra time to question him and make suggestions was a good thing you did.

We have a kiosk in the mall closes to me. They have been there for about 3 years. They sell Green Smoke but also some better Joye and Innokin models. I found their pricing to be reasonable considering their over-head which I believe for rent alone to be about $2200 a month.

The young guy who runs it told me he gets a fair number of 16 and 17 years olds wanting to buy kits but he stated he always cards people who look under 30 and will not sell to them. But interestingly enough, he also stated he gets parents of some of these high schoolers coming by and buying a kit for their kids because they want them to quit smoking. He sells to the parents, which makes sense as he can't control what they do with the kit. He also told me he has customers in Canada who email him with orders for eliquid that he fulfills for them.

See, same problem there. He is knowingly selling an age-restricted product to someone that he knows intends to give it to a minor. How is that different than a parent walking into a store, buying a pack of Marlboro's and a 6-pack and saying "Oh, these are for my kids so they don't drink out of the house."? As of yet, e-cigarettes fall under the same sales restrictions that alcohol and tobacco do.

 

[SissySpike]

Taken out of context that kids statement sounds bad but your making a lot of assumptions. Im 46 and I think most kids buying beer look like high schoolers. I dont think its cool to make accusations like that unless you are sure then the police is the place you should be accusing not an internet forum.

As far as the juice it dose sound shoddy. If you are truly concerned for the public's safety you should be taking steps to have them shut down not bashing them on ECF. Thats just My Opinion though.

 

[WillyZee]

These types of losers will single handily be the reason the Industry could get muzzled.

 

[wv2win]

See, same problem there. He is knowingly selling an age-restricted product to someone that he knows intends to give it to a minor. How is that different than a parent walking into a store, buying a pack of Marlboro's and a 6-pack and saying "Oh, these are for my kids so they don't drink out of the house."? As of yet, e-cigarettes fall under the same sales restrictions that alcohol and tobacco do.

I guess he could tell them no, based on their honesty. They could then say they are buying it for themselves. The main point he was making to me was, these parents were desperate to get their high school age kids to stop smoking. I know if my kids where still in high school and were smoking, I would have no problem trying to get them to switch to vaping if I could not convince them to just quit.

Would you suggest those parents be turned in to Child Protective Services under those circumstances?

If I was to go after anyone on selling to 16 - 17 year olds, it would be who ever is selling them analogs.

 

[riseabovethestorm]

Appearance is all subjective, buzzz, so I agree. I personally grew a beard because I was tired of looking like I was a 16 year old (I'm 28 years old). I'm pretty baby faced anyway, but the fact that he used the word "kids" should have thrown red flags whether he actually meant sub-18 patrons or not. It should have at least opened up some cause for supervision.

That being said, however, if the "manager" (READ: .........) was only 22, and able to freely buy age restricted products himself, then he should have the sense God gave a grasshopper and realize that people look younger than they may actually be.

I guess he could tell them no, based on their honesty. They could then say they are buying it for themselves. The main point he was making to me was, these parents were desperate to get their high school age kids to stop smoking. I know if my kids where still in high school and were smoking, I would have no problem trying to get them to switch to vaping if I could not convince them to just quit.

Would you suggest those parents be turned in to Child Protective Services under those circumstances?

It's not the purchasers that I'm saying should be held liable (in the case of PVs. Alcohol is a different matter as people do all sorts of crap when partaking in libations), it's the vendors.

That all being said, parents should presumably be smart enough to know not to tell vendor they're buying the product for a minor.

 

[wv2win]

.................

It's not the purchasers that I'm saying should be held liable (in the case of PVs. Alcohol is a different matter as people do all sorts of crap when partaking in libations), it's the vendors.

That all being said, parents should presumably be smart enough to know not to tell vendor they're buying the product for a minor.

Well, the guy I was talking to had actually been giving it some thought and wanted another opinion. I give him credit for looking at both sides of the issue. He made a definite point that he does not sell to those under the age of 18. But he understood the "Catch 22" of the problem with parents wanting to save their high school age kids from a life-long smoking habit. I don't think his case is "cut & dried".

 

[riseabovethestorm]

I'll just say that I neither agree or disagree. I'm not a vendor, I'm not in law enforcement, and my opinions are amazing at sparking controversy.

I'll end my involvement in stating that is a moral gray area but a legally defined, black and white one.

 

[Penn]

Riseabove, are you certain about the laws you are commenting on? Each state has it's own laws at this time. So two questions (and keep in mind the state the OP or person you are responding to is in) - Are e-cigs age restricted in the state? If they are age restricted, is the law just on buying or is it on possession? If yes to both of these questions there are more legal questions to follow before you can make the statements you have made.

Now, the morality of it is a completely different topic than legality. They shouldn't be selling to minors.

 

[riseabovethestorm]

In my state, yes, they are. E-cigarettes are "cardable" items that require valid, current photo ID to purchase. I also prefixed my entire scree with "possibly".

 

[ITPython]

Wow, he said kids were his best customers?

Probably should have called the cops on that guy. This is not only extremely bad because he is selling to minors, but even worse is that these kids may end up vaping juice with an unsafe amount of nicotine and get themselves put in the hospital. If that happened and the ANTZ found out, they could use that as HUGE leverage to help get ecigs banned. They are already making claims about ecigs sold to minors and using it as a powerful way to ban/over-regulate ecigs, but if they got solid proof that it does happen and that the juice may be unsafe, and kids may be hospitalized for vaping it... wow, that's like a home-run for them.

This is the kind of thing that not having ecigs regulated, is bad. And that kiosk guy is basically the "One ruining it for the rest of us".

I personally wouldn't mind some regulations to prevent stuff like this from happening, sadly though any regulation on ecigs is likely to be extreme.

 

[riseabovethestorm]

Seeing as the health risks for PVs are of-yet non existent, the regulations should be lessened. But as the law stands (I'll clarify by saying "in my state"), they're as restricted as analogs.

 

[bones1274]

If that conversation would have happened with me, I would have been calling corporate as soon as I walked out of the mall. If that did not rectify the situation, I would consider reporting him to law enforcement under suspicion of selling to minors.

 

[CreepyLady]

I thought I was the only person who had a crappy mall kiosk run in today.....

I noticed in a mall today that there is a convenience store kiosk thingy with HUGE Fantasia E-Hookah posters and Blus. He had a large display of the Fantasia flavors so I stopped and peaked out of curiosity. The vendor explained to me that Fantasia "are the only e-hookahs that exist" and continued on to explain that "Blu is made by Newport (true now - it was purchased and is owned by BT - Lorillard, Inc) and that Fantasia and Blu are not only FDA approved but the ONLY FDA approved e-cig devices".

 

[gingersnaps]

I thought I was the only person who had a crappy mall kiosk run in today.....

I noticed in a mall today that there is a convenience store kiosk thingy with HUGE Fantasia E-Hookah posters and Blus. He had a large display of the Fantasia flavors so I stopped and peaked out of curiosity. The vendor explained to me that Fantasia "are the only e-hookahs that exist" and continued on to explain that "Blu is made by Newport (true now - it was purchased and is owned by BT - Lorillard, Inc) and that Fantasia and Blu are not only FDA approved but the ONLY FDA approved e-cig devices".

This really made me laugh. FDA approved ecigs lol. No such thing exists that I've heard of. I really wish though but with good quality stuff that works.


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[danca90]

Was it a Vapor Hut?

 

[RazorLollipopGirl]

I'll chime in as a parent who intends to give her 17 year old a vaporizer to encourage him to quit tobacco. It is my understanding that from the legal perspective e-cigs are considered to be similar to/same as tobacco at this point. I'm not completely sure of Massachusetts' exact stance, there is a lot of information to sort through, but I know some individual towns and cities have instituted bans. I absolutely support efforts to help kids avoid any addiction, including tobacco and nicotine, and I was very disappointed when my son started smoking at 14 years old. He was aware of all the trouble I had with the effects of smoking, my frustrating and discouraging attempts and failure to quit, so on and so forth, and I frequently expressed my regret at starting up the habit in the first place and encouraged him not to. But, he chose to anyway, and eventually I was in a position of refusing to buy for him and eventually caving because he started stealing cigarettes from me and cash from his grandmother to get them. He also took to rummaging public ashtrays (soooooo disgusting!). I noticed very soon after I switched to a vaporizer that my breathing improved, my sleep apnea has ceased almost entirely, and my bank account suddenly has money in it. Now that I am finally tobacco-free and starting to slowly step down the nicotine level in my juice I'm all for my son switching over as well. He'll be 18 soon, which of course doesn't change the legality now but, knowing how much mine has helped me, I'd vastly prefer that he start using a vaporizer instead of tobacco sooner rather than later.

See, same problem there. He is knowingly selling an age-restricted product to someone that he knows intends to give it to a minor. How is that different than a parent walking into a store, buying a pack of Marlboro's and a 6-pack and saying "Oh, these are for my kids so they don't drink out of the house."? As of yet, e-cigarettes fall under the same sales restrictions that alcohol and tobacco do.

Despite having bought him cigarettes for a long time, I do dislike that as well, but weighing it against the alternative, I think it’s the best course of action for him. I strongly disagree that this the same thing as a parent who buys their kid booze to keep them from drinking outside the house. The biggest difference is that vaping is considerably less dangerous and impairing than alcohol, at least according to the information I’m aware of. I’m taking steps to reduce the amount of harmful chemicals he is putting into his body in an effort to help him decrease the desire and resist indulging the addiction. From a legal standpoint, it is the same thing, for sure, but from a moral perspective it seems quite different, and the better choice.