MAOIs and Nictine

[Matvyey]

Hey all,

Many people have stated that one of the more difficult aspects of switching from PVs from analogs is that you aren't getting the MAOIs that are present in cigarettes. I started to wonder what exactly does that mean. Well, I'll admit that I still don't know exactly but I did find these interesting articles:

(Argh! can't post links yet! I looked up MAOI on wikipedia and clicked sources 9 and 10 at the bottom of the page.)


If I'm reading this correctly, it's stating that the COMBINATION of nicotine paired with MAOIs (like that which naturally occurs in tobacco) makes nicotine all the more effective and addictive. Maybe this explains why some people still experience some withdrawal symptoms after switching, or are being satisfied by lower nic levels than what they were used to when they were smoking.

Does anyone have any additional input? What is the source of the nicotine that is added to our ejuice, not from tobacco? Anyway, I thought I'd post just because I find that the more science I know about my cravings, the easier it gets when I can't have it

 

[suddenly]

Hello and welcome,
This topic has been brought up many, many times. I would search the forum, but if you still have questions, just come back here

 

[Automaton]

Basically, it goes like this.

Nicotine increases dopamine.

And MAOI's prevent dopamine from being re-absorbed at its normal rate.

So, put the two together and you get a CRAPLOAD of dopamine floating around your brain. Remove one or the other, and you still have more dopamine than your average Joe, but not as much as you did when you put the two together.

A lot of people have a hard time dealing with the drop in dopamine that happens when you remove MAOI's from the equation, and normal re-absorption resumes. The nicotine is still giving you extra dopamine - but it's definitely an over-all decrease.

And still other people have a strong habitual addiction. The habitual aspect of cigarettes, for people whose personalities are built this way, can be as compulsive as hair-pulling, nail biting, or skin picking.

As far as how this may affect you, no way to tell.

Personally, like most people here, I had tried everything short of Chantix (which scares the hell out of me) to quit, and every attempt was a miserable failure.

But I didn't experience any serious withdrawal when switching to e-cigs. I did have cravings, but they were incredibly mild compared to what I had with every other quitting method.

For me, the combination of getting nicotine and sating my habitual addiction was more than adequate for me to let the MAOI's in cigarettes go. I vape 18mg to 12mg,

Other people struggle more with it. Some take several weeks, or even months, to taper completely off cigarettes. Some find they need to use a very high nic strength to make up for lost MAOI's. Some use Swedish snus with e-cigs to get the MAOI's without cigarettes.

So, everyone's different. Some people are more addicted to nicotine than MAOI's, some are more addicted to MAOI's than nicotine, and some are very addicted to both. And some are addicted to the habitual/compulsive habit of smoking.

For me, I am more addicted to nicotine than MAOI's, and I am also very addicted to the compulsive habit of smoking.

YMMV.

 

[suddenly]

Great reply MistressNomad,

I take a MAOI and have for years. I found I was pretty down when I started to vape. Upping the nicotine didn't seem to help me. But my body adjusted and I felt better.

 

[Matvyey]

Thank you both

That makes a lot of sense to me. I was doing very well with my 510 and 36mg juice for the first couple weeks, but now on week 3 I'm finding I'm having a harder time of it. Cigarettes keep popping up into my head even though I tried one about a week and a half ago, and spit it out after 2 drags. I know I have to keep vaping and maybe it will take a few more weeks or a month before my brain catches up, it's just that vaping isn't satisfying me as much as it was.

I know I will see this through, and the learning the science seems like the most reassuring answers to questions like "When will this get better?!" I don't write a whole lot here, but honestly, I don't know what I would do without the guys and girls here on this forum. Not to get to weepy....

In the future I will use the search function more, but I guess I just wanted some quick feedback on this in lieu of quick satisfaction from my pv.

And just to add, I've tried Chantix. I've never had a more unpleasant and unsuccessful quitting attempt. Serious nausea and no drop in cravings.

 

[suddenly]

I have heard a lot of people on here say the same thing about Chantix.
I wouldn't go near that stuff.

I have been vaping for 9 months now, and I still crave cigs. I even cheat once in a while when I am with someone that smokes.

Don't be too hard on yourself. It is not all a bed of roses all the time!

 

[Automaton]

Yeah, Chantix is rather frightening. And even the people who actually do quit with it tend to get some pretty scary side effects. At the mild end, I've heard "complete loss of all ability to enjoy anything in life," and at the extreme end, "I wanted to kill people and/or myself." Scary, scary stuff. And the FDA will approve that, but not e-cigs. Hah!!

If you are indeed addicted to the MAOI's, I would give it about 6 weeks before you expect a substantial drop in cravings. Long time, I know, but addictions are tough. In the mean time, high nic levels and short, frequent vaping sessions will help.

You may also consider taking a supplement like fish oil-derived Omega-3, which normalizes neuronal release and absorption. Sometimes your MAO receptors can go into hyper-drive after no longer being blocked, and actually absorb faster than normal. I've had a lot of luck with Omega-3. You have to take it in fairly high doses - 4,000mg to 6,000mg per day (4 to 6 pills) - and it takes one to two weeks for it to reach a high enough concentration in your body. But it works.

However, don't go over 10,000mg per day. Omega-3 is pretty inert, but in very high doses it can thin the blood substantially, and slow clotting and healing. At the doses above, it's perfectly safe.

And as Suddenly said... don't be too hard on yourself. Don't focus on "NEVER HAVING ANOTHER CIGARETTE AGAIN AS LONG AS I LIVE!!" Focus on not being a smoker. A smoker is someone who smokes, every day, multiple times a day.

If you still find yourself lighting up once in a rare while, that's ok. That isn't going to kill you. That isn't going to drain the bank.

The important thing, is not being a smoker.

 

[suddenly]

When I started taking vitamin D-3 is when I really started to feel better.
Just thought I would give you some more suggestions.

I took it because I have MS, ergo depression. There are a few people on here with MS and they told me it helped with depression and come to find out it also helped make the transition from cigs to e-cigs easier.

You will make it. It was tuff for me in the beginning too. I think a lot of it depends on your body chemistry. I also wonder what were in real cigs that made me more relaxed and not have insomnia? It wasn't the nic that relaxed me thats for sure. But that was just my experience. Everyone is different.

 

[Automaton]

I also wonder what were in real cigs that made me more relaxed and not have insomnia? It wasn't the nic that relaxed me thats for sure. But that was just my experience. Everyone is different.

I wonder if it's carbon dioxide that does that? It has a sedating effect.

 

[SimpleSins]

I wonder if it's carbon dioxide that does that? It has a sedating effect.

That's a pretty interesting thought. I've not had a lot of other problems except insomnia. I've resorted to sleeping pills 2-3 times a week just to catch up a little, which I'm not real keen on taking for any length of time. I was just wondering this morning if I brain function would improve a bit without all the CO from the cigarettes in my lungs and house, and also with the improved oxygenation from an increase in lung function. So maybe the insomnia is just my brain being so happy to be getting full doses of oxygen that it's afraid to go to sleep lest I pull the rug out from under it and start tainting it again.

 

[Automaton]

Maybe so.

Give Melatonin a shot, as a sleep aid. It's a lot gentler than sleeping pills. I've always had chronic insomnia, and that's why I take.

 

[AlexTM]

Funny thing is, there are quite a few people who experience the MAOI-cravings only after seveal weeks of vaping only. You were vaping only just fine, then slowly you start to feel nervous, which gets worse, no matter how much you vape. And some people tried for weeks to vape it away with insane amounts of nicotine, and only when that did not work turned to smokeless tobacco. Which, after all, is considerably less dangerous than analogs.

 

[Automaton]

Funny thing is, there are quite a few people who experience the MAOI-cravings only after seveal weeks of vaping only. You were vaping only just fine, then slowly you start to feel nervous, which gets worse, no matter how much you vape. And some people tried for weeks to vape it away with insane amounts of nicotine, and only when that did not work turned to smokeless tobacco. Which, after all, is considerably less dangerous than analogs.

...And this is why people should be very well-educated and ask a lot of questions before they take any sort of psych drugs. Prescription, or otherwise (tobacco counts).

They do often change your brain chemistry in a long-term, or even permanent way. Many people are medicated when they don't need to be, and the medication itself can produce a life-long need for the medication by permanently altering the brain chemistry.

If you need the medication to begin with, this isn't a problem obviously.

But it's important to be extremely conscientious of what we put into our brains. Sometimes we can't ever change it back, once we've done it. Which is why many of us may vape for the rest of our lives.

 

[THE]

Chantix is a strange drug. It gave me vivid dreams. I NEVER dream. It made smoking a cigarette have no affect, I didn't want it or not want it. That was so strange.

Five facts Chantix ads keep hidden

Read the links about the FDA
They released a video about suicide concerns, it scared people, they tried to hide the video....

The government truly is blood sucking raping garbage. They will end you for a piece of your labor or anything valuable. Farmers care more (much more) for the wellbeing and comfort of livestock they're going to slaughter than our government does for us.