Mechanical Mod/RBA safety question

Status
Not open for further replies.

AttyPops

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 8, 2010
8,708
134,346
Hc Svnt Dracones - USA EST
The few test vids I've seen have the the shorted IMR's in open areas....so IDK how much out-gassing they have and how fast. Not an expert anyway...even if I had the data. But I suppose that's a factor...assuming the PV has any vents at all.

That's why tube mods bother me I guess. I use box mods mostly (and 2 layers of short protection on top of that...PCB and regulator).

That's why SLR is not really for newbies.... they push all points to the limit. Then again, a short is a short regardless of SLR or not.

Bad...do you have a link to those fuses handy??????
 

negrete35

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 28, 2012
537
499
40
Caldwell, Idaho
I did the same thing with an AW IMR last week. I put the battery in my pocket not knowing that I still had the charging cable for my phone in that pocket. It actually wasn't until about 30 minutes later that it happened. But each end of the battery touched each end of the cable. the battery got pretty warm but maintained its composure. The charging cable on the other hand was done for. burnt a hole through my pocket and a nice little reminder on my leg to pay more attention next time.
 

Katya

ECF Guru
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 23, 2010
34,804
120,147
SoCal
What would be the use of a multimeter? to check the ohms/volts right?

Yes. To check the resistance of the atomizer coils you're building--and the voltage of the batteries that will be hooked up to those atomizers.

Do you own a multimeter? Do you know how to use it?

OK, just in case:

Here's a step-by-step tutorial (for digital multimeters):

1. Turn your multimeter on and select the lowest Ohms setting, usually 200Ω.
2. Look at the display; the left side of the screen should display number 1.
3. First, test the resistance of your leads. Touch to two leads together, firmly, and wait for numbers to stabilize. On the right side of the screen, you should see a number between 0.0 and 0.4, or so. This is the resistance of your leads. Remember that number.
4. Now, to test your atty. Position your carto firmly on your desk; you don't want it to slip and slide all over the place. Touch one lead to the hole in the center of the atty and the other lead to the threads. Again read the display after the numbers have stabilized.
5. Subtract the resistance of your leads (#3) from the resistance of your atty(#4). This is the resistance of your atomizer.

This process takes some getting used to. Steady hand helps. Just keep practicing and you'll figure it out.
 
Last edited:

Slots

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 20, 2012
2,793
15,747
Eastern Wa.
Hi Baditude
I bought a k100, and I was looking at the Vape Safe Fuse a few days ago.
I wrote and asked if the IMR18650 and 18350 batteries that I use with my Vamo would work in the K100
He wrote back "YES", but upon further investigation, I guess a need a IMR18500 for it to fit.
I'm not trying for super low ohm "bliss" or big vapor.
I do have a multimeter or the Vamo to test coils with.
I'm not using it until I have the proper setup.
Can you fill me in on the best way to go.
I do understand there are safety precautions when using a mechanical.
Although there is plenty of information on the forum, sadly it represents both sides, adds to the confusion, and doesn't leave you with a clear picture.
Any info from you I would trust.
 

CGustav

Full Member
Verified Member
Jun 5, 2013
60
32
California
Hi Baditude
I bought a k100, and I was looking at the Vape Safe Fuse a few days ago.
I wrote and asked if the IMR18650 and 18350 batteries that I use with my Vamo would work in the K100
He wrote back "YES", but upon further investigation, I guess a need a IMR18500 for it to fit.
I'm not trying for super low ohm "bliss" or big vapor.
I do have a multimeter or the Vamo to test coils with.
I'm not using it until I have the proper setup.
Can you fill me in on the best way to go.
I do understand there are safety precautions when using a mechanical.
Although there is plenty of information on the forum, sadly it represents both sides, adds to the confusion, and doesn't leave you with a clear picture.
Any info from you I would trust.

Hi Slots,

I believe both the 18350 and 18650 should fit in the K100 with the vapesafe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iR7l02PI0Xc#t=315s

My K100 is in the mail, so I could not test it myself.

For the initial coils at least, it might be good idea to stay in the Vamo range, i.e. 1.2+ ohms. So that you can test and run it on Vamo first. This way you can also experiment with different voltages.

Of course it is a good idea to be extra alert at the beginning and keep an eye on stability and temperatures.

Happy vaping.
 

Baditude

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Apr 8, 2012
30,394
73,076
71
Ridgeway, Ohio
Hi Baditude
I bought a k100, and I was looking at the Vape Safe Fuse a few days ago.
I wrote and asked if the IMR18650 and 18350 batteries that I use with my Vamo would work in the K100
He wrote back "YES", but upon further investigation, I guess a need a IMR18500 for it to fit.
I'm not trying for super low ohm "bliss" or big vapor.
I do have a multimeter or the Vamo to test coils with.
I'm not using it until I have the proper setup.
Can you fill me in on the best way to go.
I do understand there are safety precautions when using a mechanical.
Although there is plenty of information on the forum, sadly it represents both sides, adds to the confusion, and doesn't leave you with a clear picture.
Any info from you I would trust.
Most "protected" batteries will be a bit longer than their IMR or safe chemistry equivalents (this is because of the built-in protective circuits in those batteries). I'm not familiar with the K-100 mod, but I'm under the impression from vendor descriptions that it should accept 18350, 18500 and 18650 unprotected batteries Kamry K100 R-Scope Telescope : GotVapes.com, E-cigarette Supplies - Atomizers Cartomizers Mods Juice and more

The Vape Safe Fuse will take up some space in the battery compartment if used, but not much. Theoretically it should fit with either a protected or IMR battery, but if not you will need to use one with an IMR. As I have stated before, I prefer using the IMR's in both regulated and unregulated mods, but this is a personal preference. I just feel safer with the safer chemistry of an IMR, and adding a Vape Safe Fuse would make me feel even safer.
 

Brewdevil

Full Member
Apr 10, 2013
13
1
47
Glenolden, PA, USA
Another issue that's been causing hot buttons in the #19A is the fact that the button doesn't always make contact with the body and would cause you to lose your ground connection. This was one of the big causes of the misfire issue. Im in a co-op for the 19B now and the rep stated that this one comes with an updated switch. Dont know what that means yet.
I didn't understand your answer to my original question. Does the hot spring in your 19B come standard now? Maybe this is the update I was referring to earlier. In pretty sure the spring in 19A is not a hot spring.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2
yep standard on the 19 b
 

Brewdevil

Full Member
Apr 10, 2013
13
1
47
Glenolden, PA, USA
There is no dumb questions, only arrogant know- it- all dumb replies. Came here to learn, not be insulted. If something is dumb to you it may be new to another. Taking time to explain fundamental processes and repetition is how we newbies learn. All I want to know is why my mech is getting hot, not perfect vape or sub ohms. Like I said was using a sigelei 19 with a smok mega ego cart w/ 510 threads rated 1.5... Haven't read anything yet as to why this happened anywhere, and no I dod mot "mod" it
 

Ravalstoney

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 3, 2013
147
81
45
Dallas, Tx
There is no dumb questions, only arrogant know- it- all dumb replies. Came here to learn, not be insulted. If something is dumb to you it may be new to another. Taking time to explain fundamental processes and repetition is how we newbies learn. All I want to know is why my mech is getting hot, not perfect vape or sub ohms. Like I said was using a sigelei 19 with a smok mega ego cart w/ 510 threads rated 1.5... Haven't read anything yet as to why this happened anywhere, and no I dod mot "mod" it

From what your describing I would say is the issue I described with the floating button on the switch. When pressed just the right way the switch doesn't touch the side of the housing and the connection becomes intermittent. I saw a fix on a YouTube video for it a couple days ago. Sorry I don't have the link for you.
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdqz48jc7U&feature=youtube_gdata_player Here it is! I just used this fix except I used a brass interior snap ring. Works like a charm. Don't know if your updated switch is similar enough to still work the same way, but I think it should still be helpful.
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2
 
Last edited:

AttyPops

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 8, 2010
8,708
134,346
Hc Svnt Dracones - USA EST
There is no dumb questions, only arrogant know- it- all dumb replies. Came here to learn, not be insulted. If something is dumb to you it may be new to another. Taking time to explain fundamental processes and repetition is how we newbies learn. All I want to know is why my mech is getting hot, not perfect vape or sub ohms. Like I said was using a sigelei 19 with a smok mega ego cart w/ 510 threads rated 1.5... Haven't read anything yet as to why this happened anywhere, and no I dod mot "mod" it

Who insulted YOU personally? Also, did you miss the answers?

Bad and I didn't call you dumb, nor do I think I was being arrogant. I was being blunt. And it was generalized. Baditude was speaking in general too. I don't even know whom you are referring to in your rant. Bad posed the pic, I posed the "there are no dumb question" point. So your rant is ambiguous. And if you are ticked at me, I don't know why since I was defending your right to ask a question. But I'm shocked at this thread as a whole.

Heat is generated from resistance. Either within the battery (and can make it vent) or from a poor connection somewhere. That's where a multimeter that measures ohms with a probe will come in handy. You could measure, for example, the resistance of the button over several tries......or the resistance of the atty connector.

Here's a bunch of answers that applied to your post (well everything in this thread applies, but these were to you or showed you how to check something) that were posted before your rant.


Having same problem but with a DCC rated 1.5. Still fires fine on SVD, but hot spring on sigelei 19 collapsed and I actually got a burn from the fire button. NEED some guidance from advanced team.

the spring on the top collapsed and discolored. Can I replace it and how?, and what to do to prevent this

Contact the vendor where you bought your battery device about a replacement spring and how to replace it.

How to prevent this from happening again. Do your research in learning about how RBA's work, learn battery safety, learn the relationship between resistance and voltage, etc.

The link I gave you before is a start. Here's another one: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/warning-rechargeable-batteries-apvs-mods/

Thanks, great info!, have spent countless hours reading and learning on this forum and every time I have a question or concern it is answered. I took the delrin assembly off of my stock head and the brass pin is almost flush with the top of the plastic. I swapped it with the nzonic clone magnet head pin which sticks out further and the cart will now fire. I am guessing it missed the connection on the other pin and caused battery to overheat collapsing the spring and heating up fire button. Does this sound about right? Again it is a sigelei 19b with a smok mega dual coil car to user on it rated 1.5 ohms

Another issue that's been causing hot buttons in the #19A is the fact that the button doesn't always make contact with the body and would cause you to lose your ground connection. This was one of the big causes of the misfire issue. Im in a co-op for the 19B now and the rep stated that this one comes with an updated switch. Dont know what that means yet.
I didn't understand your answer to my original question. Does the hot spring in your 19B come standard now? Maybe this is the update I was referring to earlier. In pretty sure the spring in 19A is not a hot spring.

Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

Yes. To check the resistance of the atomizer coils you're building--and the voltage of the batteries that will be hooked up to those atomizers.

Do you own a multimeter? Do you know how to use it?

OK, just in case:

Here's a step-by-step tutorial (for digital multimeters):

1. Turn your multimeter on and select the lowest Ohms setting, usually 200Ω.
2. Look at the display; the left side of the screen should display number 1.
3. First, test the resistance of your leads. Touch to two leads together, firmly, and wait for numbers to stabilize. On the right side of the screen, you should see a number between 0.0 and 0.4, or so. This is the resistance of your leads. Remember that number.
4. Now, to test your atty. Position your carto firmly on your desk; you don't want it to slip and slide all over the place. Touch one lead to the hole in the center of the atty and the other lead to the threads. Again read the display after the numbers have stabilized.
5. Subtract the resistance of your leads (#3) from the resistance of your atty(#4). This is the resistance of your atomizer.

This process takes some getting used to. Steady hand helps. Just keep practicing and you'll figure it out.

And this was posted after-rant.
From what your describing I would say is the issue I described with the floating button on the switch. When pressed just the right way the switch doesn't touch the side of the housing and the connection becomes intermittent. I saw a fix on a YouTube video for it a couple days ago. Sorry I don't have the link for you.
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdqz48jc7U&feature=youtube_gdata_player Here it is! I just used this fix except I used a brass interior snap ring. Works like a charm. Don't know if your updated switch is similar enough to still work the same way, but I think it should still be helpful.
Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

To everyone: This is why you should invest in (even an inexpensive) multimeter. Because you need to be able to test things that don't have atomizer connectors on them. In other words, more than just the coil you made. Sure, you can screw a coil onto some PV and it will show you some approximate ohms. But there's more use for a MM than just that.
 
Last edited:

bikini_kill

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 17, 2013
124
107
Oklahoma City, OK USA
To everyone: This is why you should invest in (even an inexpensive) multimeter. Because you need to be able to test things that don't have atomizer connectors on them. In other words, more than just the coil you made. Sure, you can screw a coil onto some PV and it will show you some approximate ohms. But there's more use for a MM than just that.
Yes, yes, yes!

To mech/RBA beginners:
It's tempting to think going into this that you will be fine without a meter because you can just charge your batteries "by feel" and test your coils on a VV mod. You can do both of those things, though neither is ideal, but that's just the use for a meter when everything is working. When you start having actual weird problems (which do happen even with very simple equipment), you will need to be able to take voltage and resistance readings in weird places on your mod to figure out exactly where you're losing power, etc. For that you'll need a real deal multimeter. There are even some mods, generally hybrids, that you can't test at all without a multimeter because the atomizer deck isn't removable ("The Novice" by Chris Creations is one example). Just get one already.

To mech/RBA pros and especially video makers:
Though there are a million demo videos out there for mods, atomizers, juices, tanks, etc., there are very few that are dedicated to the subject of explaining to beginners the basics of how mechanical mods work (the current path, etc.) and how to troubleshoot them with a multimeter. Multimeters can seem intimidating to people who aren't familiar with them, which is sort of understandable given that they are far more complex devices than the setups we're troubleshooting with them.

And how many of the aforementioned demo videos show anyone using a multimeter to test anything? Precious few. Many rebuild videos don't show people testing their coils at all, even on a VV mod. I really appreciate all the time and effort that the community puts into making those videos, and I watch them all the time when deciding what equipment to purchase. Thank you so much for doing it! If I may make one request: in your rebuild videos, please include a demonstration of you using a meter to check your resistance. Even if you know it's perfect, it could be the first or only time a beginner sees that done. Every atomizer and mod setup is different, so just knowing where to stick the probes can be very helpful for someone who doesn't know what they're doing yet. TIA!!! :wub:
 

ClippinWings

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 12, 2011
1,641
1,889
The OC
how did i miss this thread? jesus... every answer until now has been far kinder than I would have been... I'll keep this short, since I'm late to the game.

What would be the use of a multimeter? to check the ohms/volts right?

If you are asking this question... you probably shouldn't be using an RBA or a Mechanical device... for your own safety.

That said... Yes, that's what a multimeter is for.
More specifically the real "use" of a multimeter is so you don't hurt yourself... or others.

there is a ton of info here on ECF... search... Read... then read it again... Don't do anything unless you know what you are doing... and why you are doing it.
 
Last edited:

Light Seeker

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 31, 2013
1,052
1,322
Houston TX
The coil was made for me at a vape shop when I bought the atomizer there. It looks to be the flat ribbon wire with 2/3 wrap single coil. I'm using AW IMR in a poldiac. And I don't have a multimeter

This is just totally outrageous and irresponsible of the vape shop. I cant fault the user, probably read on this very forum how great RBAs are with sub ohm coils .... And with a pocket of cash, heads to the local B&M picking up a rba, poldiac, and battery. At least it was an IMR!

One shouldn't even consider sub ohms without being able to wrap it, closely inspect it, measure it with a DMM, tweak the coils, know warning signs, & how to troubleshoot and fix it. Any idiot at a vape shop selling sub ohm coils to anyone walking in off the street is guilty of gross negligence and is dangerous to not only their customers but vapers everywhere .... Its like selling cars to teenagers that don't have a drivers license or any experience. That vape shop should be shut down, any mishap is a black eye to the entire vape community and will make the news on how dangerous our ecigs are.
 

bikini_kill

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 17, 2013
124
107
Oklahoma City, OK USA
This is just totally outrageous and irresponsible of the vape shop. I cant fault the user, probably read on this very forum how great RBAs are with sub ohm coils .... And with a pocket of cash, heads to the local B&M picking up a rba, poldiac, and battery. At least it was an IMR!

One shouldn't even consider sub ohms without being able to wrap it, closely inspect it, measure it with a DMM, tweak the coils, know warning signs, & how to troubleshoot and fix it. Any idiot at a vape shop selling sub ohm coils to anyone walking in off the street is guilty of gross negligence and is dangerous to not only their customers but vapers everywhere ....
I would wager that this happens pretty often. Here's an experience that happened to me not too long ago:

I decided I was tired of the size, fuss, and waste of a carto/tank setup, so I decided that I wanted to try out a small, re-buildable dripping atomizer. I'm a computer nerd, so I'm pretty familiar with circuits, already have precision tools and a Fluke multimeter sitting around, etc. - I figured it would be within my capabilities. I went to my most local b&m, picked up a cheap Squid (mini-Octopus), and all of a sudden I knew why everyone raved about the flavor of dripping. I asked about the coil and wick to rebuild, but they didn't stock these - only the pre-made 1.7ohm pre-wrapped coil/wicks.

A week later I decided that while I loved the RDA concept, I wanted something that looked a little better on my mod so I drove across town to a larger, better known b&m that I knew would have wicks and coils because they advertised them on their website. When I got there, I asked them if I could speak to whoever on their staff was most knowledgeable about RDAs, and told them I was willing to wait if that person was busy. After waiting for a bit for him to finish helping someone else, he came over and helped me choose an IGO-S. While I was there, I also saw a mechanical RDA hybrid mod that I liked and decided to pick it up too.

I asked him if he would mind showing me how to set up the IGO-S (I always do this because hey, I might learn a cool trick, right?). He very nicely explained how to wrap the coil properly around the wick and mount it on the posts. Then he pulled out one of those resistance checkers with the 510 connection and mounted it on that - it read out at 0.7 ohms. He said, "Is that OK?" I said, "Umm, I don't know if that'll work..."*** His response: "Oh it'll work. Of course it'll work - it's a mech mod!"

Seeing that little 510 resistance checker made me wonder all sorts of things, like how accurate those things are, and how you could even use one to test the coil on the mech hybrid RDA I had just purchased from them (you can't, because there isn't a 510 connection). Since he was using the same mech hybrid RDA, I asked him what the easiest/least messy way to meter the coil on it was since you can't do it from the bottom. His response: "I don't know; I've never used a multimeter."

In this case, it was sort of "no harm, no foul" in the sense that I understood enough about what I was working with (without having ever wrapped a coil myself at this point, mind you) to know that trying to run his coil setup was a bad idea, and since I now had rebuilding supplies I brought it home and immediately re-coiled it (to 1.2 ohms, TYVM :p). Obviously it concerns me that this can and likely does happen to others who might not realize this was a problem. What do you suggest doing in these situations? Is there a polite way to handle this without seeming alarmist and like you're telling someone how to do their job?

*** Technical details about why I didn't think that was a good idea:
The mod in question is a mech that runs on 14500 batteries. I use these AW IMR 14500s in particular. They have a capacity of 600maH and a maximum discharge rate of 8C, which means it can handle up to 4.8A of current safely (0.6A * 8 = 4.8A). These batteries come off my charger at 4.2V, and the coil he had wrapped was 0.7ohms. By Ohm's law, 4.2V / 0.7ohms = 6A of current, which I knew to be well over what the battery was rated at. Herein lies one of the dangers of mechs: you can easily rig combinations that "work" in the sense that they will fire and produce vapor, but this should not be considered a properly "working" setup in the sense that it's a very, very bad idea to push your luck with batteries.
 

Light Seeker

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 31, 2013
1,052
1,322
Houston TX
Wow. Just...... wow. :blink: Thanks for sharing. Local B&Ms I've visited around me only carry starter ego kits, a few clearos & juices, so haven't experienced anything like this.

Obviously it concerns me that this can and likely does happen to others who might not realize this was a problem. What do you suggest doing in these situations? Is there a polite way to handle this without seeming alarmist and like you're telling someone how to do their job?

I've seen the same incompetence at places like Best Buy, I really have to bite my lip overhearing some of the nonsense & inaccuracies the sales guys spew responding to valid questions. If I have time, I usually .... in politely & correctly answer the shoppers question, usually receiving a 'thank you' from both the customer & the clerk.

But unlike a RBA in a vape shop, the ignorance of a sales clerk at an electronics store usually has no bearing on consumer safety. As others in this post know, I've passionately argued about battery safety & knowledge in other threads .... often as an alarmist .... with the only hope of making a newbie more aware of potential danger than others poo-pooing the threat. Sure, chances of an IMR venting enough to do physical damage is miniscule, but the potentials there, and greatly increased with sub-ohm coils. Add user ignorance to the equation, one has a perfect recipe for missing teeth or scalded faces.

We're currently enjoying our hobby totally unregulated with changes looming on the horizon. All it will take is one ignorant user burning his face to make it to 20/20 or another news show .... and every state will quickly ban, at the very least highly regulate, our smoking alternative. I don't hesitate turning on smoking friends to vapes by education, I similarly don't hesitate sharing what little knowledge I may have, particularly concerning safety. If we can't self regulate via education these safety concerns, others outside our community will do it for us, I guarantee. If this means I'm an alarmist ...... to an ignorant vape store clerk, so be it. :)
 

Baditude

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Apr 8, 2012
30,394
73,076
71
Ridgeway, Ohio
I would like to personally thank AttyPops, Katya, Bikini_kill, ClippinWings, Lightseeker, and others for stepping in with their opinion on this situation. When I became aware that the original poster was a new vapor using an RBA with little clue of what he was doing or working with, the alarms went off in my head.

I was afraid I would be the only one to alert this person that what he was doing was dangerous. To hear of salesmen in vape shops who are selling sophisticated devices that have such dangerous potential without a conscience of the disservice they are doing is unethical, a poor business practice, and showing little regard for human safety. These salesmen are either only after a quick buck, or are totally ignorant themselves what they are doing. Sub-1 ohm coils are not for the ignorant to be using.

To need to ask the question about what would using a multimeter do when using an RBA just proves that people are disregarding the warnings that rebuildable atomizers are advanced products for advanced vapors only. Far too often I see ECF members recommending RBA's to obviously new vapors whose previous vaping experience is with an 510 cigalike.

Come on people, you should know better than this! Please take into consideration the level of vaping expertise people have before recommending an RBA. Encourage them to research RBA's, but also provide a warning that these are for advanced vapors and to not attempt to use one until they have done adequate homework on the subject.

I was an experienced vapor of several months, even considered by many here to be an expert on cartotanks, before I decided to attempt my first RBA. I found the whole RBA concept intimidating, even with my experience. I spent hours upon hours researching, reading, watching video demos, assimulating all the equipment and tools that I would need before purchasing one.

Am I an alarmist? I don't think so.

Well, that's my :2c:. Who agrees with this?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread