Message to e-Liquid vendors: This is what we want from you!

[vsummer1]

I searched this thread and didn't find anything sooo,
Standards and acceptance!

Being new(3 months) what I've found is that "this thing of ours" is still in the "old west" stages. Almost every piece of hardware I have purchased has required "tweaking" to make it work as advertised". The couple of times I have had an opportunity to introduce someone to vaping I find myself asking myself, is this person willing to fiddle with everything to get it to work! In most cases, NO. This thing is very time consuming and I'm not sure others can or will be able to devote the time. Drip into carto's, fill with syringes, turn upside down, pry up center post, face east, et.al.

As has been stated before, some present them selfs as testing and testing, working with suppliers, testing again! But when the product hits the net we are then flooded with issues and complaints. If this thing is ever going to be main stream, vendors need to get their act together. We are(me) tired of being your test beads! Its time for you guys to get together and police this industry. If you don't the government will. If there are not enough "users" it is doomed to overbearing regulation. Until there is an expectation that I/we can introduce something to "granny" and have it "work", "this thing of ours" will always be a hobby rather than an activity.

Please band together and demand the Pac Rim suppliers commit to quality! Establish standards for manufacturing. Stop blaming QC for everything. When was the last time you worked for $ .10 a day. Can't blame the workers, its the "bottom line" mentality of suppliers management. Remember, if we don't buy it. they can't sell it.

EDIT: Sorry if this was off topic. Just re-read title "e-juice..."

EDIT 2: just to be on topic:

Do you think we are blind? How can you charge $2 for a syringe when I can get 100 for $18. How can you charge $8+ for 120ml of PG/VG when I can get a gallon for $20. Mark up much?

So stop buying the chinese junk and get a nice American made model. Your choice or continue to fiddle.

As for the markup, it is just the cost to do business. They have their time investment, the time to pour and measure into another bottle they must buy. The cost of maintaining a clean, stocked and dedicated environment from which to make your juice. YOU have CHOICES.

I CHOOSE to both DIY and buy from vendors because I like what they produce. This thread is about helping them get us what we need, not complaining about things out of their control like chinese made mods or what people are paying for the product. You don't like the cost, make it yourself.

 

[Mr.Mann]

After this post I will let this particular train of thought rest as I don't want this thread to be rant based. No vendor in their right mind is going to sit back and read rants; after all, this thread is about what we want. I am not picking on any poster, I just want to make sure this thread stays in its lane. All that being said, I want to post (slightly vent) about the "keeping your word" problem...

Message to fellow members: When we champion a vendor, often times we will got to the mat for them. I have re-read certain posts of mine where I was telling posters about how this certain product/new flavor was going to be available soon. That is because this vendor kept telling me privately that it was already made and it was sure to be available "tomorrow." So, silly me, I would find posters asking about the time frame and I would say "very soon" or something along those lines. I had the "inside scoop," right? Well, as it turns out, it still hasn't happened, and that "inside scoop" was more like a crock of (xxxx). I, in effect, was being used to do his bidding for him and keeping up the interest alive for him, his business, and his products; but all I came away with was being an extension of his unfulfilled claims and a partner in his deception.

I have recently decided that I am not defending any vendor from customer's experiences that may have been different than mine, and I will urge them to be even more vociferous. I strongly advise my fellow consumers to use the negative reviews sub-forum! Go on record where it is available to see in its proper context and where that vendor can remain mute or post; either which way, certain vendors need to be on blast and called out by name, but in the proper place.

 

[ogredog]

I lI I have to agree about keeping promises. There is one supplier that I will no longer purchase from due to missed deadlines and promising things that are not to be. This gets to be an incnvenience. If a vendor/supplier gets busier than expected, limit the amount of new orders until they can catch up.
Also, do not tell me juice will be replaced with my next order. If a bottle broke during shipping, replace it now. I may not order again.

Ya but who do you blame? Vendor or Johnny Dropkick post office worker ? I hate that too...what if u don't want to order from them again lol exactly

 

[Jfresh859]

The beauty of using ups, all your mail gets there on time.
With USPS is "all your mail are belong to us"

 

[gthompson]

I don't understand why DIYers all seem to think that everyone else should also have the time, energy, and inclination to want to be a DIYer too. I have a job and a family and hobbies and lots of other activities that I don't want to give up so I can make my own juice. Is everyone supposed to also grow their own vegetables, raise their own cows and pigs and chickens, build their own cars and houses.... ?

If juice vendors mark up 500% so what? It's called capitalism. If they charge more than the market will bear, they'll go under. That's what's known as supply and demand.

 

[MiamiMom63]

Due to my being extremely allergic to peanuts or anything having to do with peanuts, I would really like to see descriptions of any extracts that some people may be highly allergic to. There are flavors that I would like to try, but I'm always afraid they dropped some peanut extract in there. I am totally fine with all other nuts but, unfortunately, I can't try anything with nuts because of my allergy to peanuts and wondering if that might be in there. Also, tobaccos may have peanut in them.

 

[cags]

This is sort of along with a point that I have been wanting to make.

Please vendors, I know that sometimes you want to come off as nice and friendly, but if you are going to make promises, please keep your word. I have received many well-intentioned offers and promises that never materialized, and not because I went away. I know times get busy and there is a lot to tend to, but before you say you are going to do something, consider all that is on your plate before you add another helping.

yes! including sending the prize(s) to your contest winner(s). without making the winner(s) ask. and ask. and ask !

 

[cags]

I don't understand why DIYers all seem to think that everyone else should also have the time, energy, and inclination to want to be a DIYer too. I have a job and a family and hobbies and lots of other activities that I don't want to give up so I can make my own juice. Is everyone supposed to also grow their own vegetables, raise their own cows and pigs and chickens, build their own cars and houses.... ?

If juice vendors mark up 500% so what? It's called capitalism. If they charge more than the market will bear, they'll go under. That's what's known as supply and demand.

I agree, I cringed a little at that "lazy" remark. just because I don't want to diy doesn't mean I'm lazy

 

[SinystyrMandee]

I think it would be helpful to include some info on the flavors as to what you (the vendor) have found to be the ohms/volts combo for various flavors. Granted....taste is subjective of course, and it will vary from person to person, but I know for me..a person who is still trying to figure all of that out, I'd love to have a suggestion as a starting point before just randomly tossing some juice in a LR carto for my regular eGo, if has the potential to be one that is better on my Twist at 4.8v.

I think most of our vendors are vapers themselves, and who I would consider to be the "expert" on their juices in particular...so a little suggestion below the flavor description would be helpful. Or perhaps a prompt in the reviews section that encourages other vapers to state what they found to be their preference for that particular juice.

You could even take it a step further... for those customers that do write reviews or even the vendor themselves... If the vendor adds options to the flavors such as adding menthol or extra flavor, what is the recommended level? I know, again, taste is different for each person but what does the average customer order and like? Does adding the menthol or a certain level of extra flavor make it better or completely unusable? Is the basic level just right or could it use the extra flavor? something like that... I did see one vendor that offers sweetener for their juices with a box under the options saying whether it is recommended or can go either way. I thought that was awesome!

 

[puddlejumper1]

Some members posting on this thread suggest that venders limit the number of juices that they supply. The problem with that is that taste is very subjective. For example, after reading the "good juice" thread I ordered a sample pack from a vender (unnamed), upon receiving my order I was completely disappointed. There was three flavors in the sample, two tasted the same (the descriptions were very different). ALL three were very nasty in my opinion. It took me days to get that nasty taste out of my mouth that was highly rated by several (7+) people. So venders, If someone RE-ORDERS a flavor; keep it on your menu. If you have a flavor that gets ordered, but NEVER re-ordered; drop it.

 

[vsummer1]

re: SHIPPING

Vendors, can you please offer insurance as an option along with what others have suggested, that is, the cheapo way, the priority way, someone wanted UPS and the option of insurance also? That way it would be MY choice if I was willing to fork over the extra bucks.

I know this will maybe cause a hassle, but I have 2 missing packages as I type and if I had the option to insure at least I would have some recourse. Tracking says they were delivered, but not to me, and I realize it is not the vendor's problem but the post office's. In the end, I lose because I wasn't able to insure them and am out $100. Had I the choice to insure, I would have no one to blame but myself had I chosen to not insure. Sad days in my house for vapemail.

ETA: a call to the post office and someone came out and checked the other boxes. Sure enough, it was in the wrong one. It was delivered to my door. I am actually surprised they did this! One down, one to go.

 

[MiamiMom63]

Hopefully you get it soon, vsummer. That happened to me once and I was so upset. About a week later I got the package and it looked like someone had opened it and closed it back up. Maybe they thought it would be something they wanted and when they found out it wasn't drugs or something they wanted, they forwarded it on over to me?

re: SHIPPING

Vendors, can you please offer insurance as an option along with what others have suggested, that is, the cheapo way, the priority way, someone wanted UPS and the option of insurance also? That way it would be MY choice if I was willing to fork over the extra bucks.

I know this will maybe cause a hassle, but I have 2 missing packages as I type and if I had the option to insure at least I would have some recourse. Tracking says they were delivered, but not to me, and I realize it is not the vendor's problem but the post office's. In the end, I lose because I wasn't able to insure them and am out $100. Had I the choice to insure, I would have no one to blame but myself had I chosen to not insure. Sad days in my house for vapemail.

 

[Orobas]

I don't understand why DIYers all seem to think that everyone else should also have the time, energy, and inclination to want to be a DIYer too. I have a job and a family and hobbies and lots of other activities that I don't want to give up so I can make my own juice. Is everyone supposed to also grow their own vegetables, raise their own cows and pigs and chickens, build their own cars and houses.... ?

This.

Implying that people who don't DIY are lazy and/or bleating sheep is uncouth in the extreme. Not everybody is in the position to dedicate the space to DIY, nor to keep an eye on their high grade poison in their day to day lives.

I have a 14 month old nephew running around the house chewing on everything like a starving rabbit. And yes, there's been a few occasions where he has eluded his sister's grasp and made his way into my area. It could have been disastrous if I didn't have my juices locked up. So someone's going to imply I'm lazy and/or ignorant and/or stupid for not keeping a gallon jug of 500mg base laying around? It would only take 5ish drops of 24mg to kill the baby. He'd probably only have to LOOK at the super concentrate to get poisoned.

Sure maybe once my brother in law and his family moves out, I will have space for all of that in the extra bedroom that would result. however, by the time that happens I will be going to school full time, and I will probably also have a part time job, too. Never mind spending time with my husband and my other hobbies.. insect collecting, cooking, home brewing, gardening, and the two businesses I run in secondlife.

So really, the elitism isn't attractive, at all.

BACK ON TOPIC, though.

I've said before that food service standards are a good starting point for the manufacture of juice, and I agree that part of that should be blatantly listing things like what kind of artificial sweeteners a vendor may be using as well as labeling any juice that may contain the most common food allergens.

If we don't want the market overly regulated, then they should follow some basic FDA guidelines beforehand, in good faith, so that the roving gaze of the powers that be will continue to pass over them

Food allergies: Food labels list top 8 allergens - MayoClinic.com

In the United States, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires food manufacturers to list the eight most common ingredients that trigger food allergies. Most other countries have similar rules. In the United States, information about food allergies has to be written in simple terms adults and older children can understand. The eight foods included in food allergy labeling account for an estimated 90 percent of allergic reactions. These eight foods are:

Milk
Eggs
Peanuts
Tree nuts (such as almonds, cashews, walnuts)
Fish (such as bass, cod, flounder)
Shellfish (such as crab, lobster, shrimp)
Soy
Wheat

Now hopefully we won't be finding milk, eggs, and shellfish in our juice, but this would be an excellent place to start.

 

[cags]

re: SHIPPING

Vendors, can you please offer insurance as an option along with what others have suggested, that is, the cheapo way, the priority way, someone wanted UPS and the option of insurance also? That way it would be MY choice if I was willing to fork over the extra bucks.

I know this will maybe cause a hassle, but I have 2 missing packages as I type and if I had the option to insure at least I would have some recourse. Tracking says they were delivered, but not to me, and I realize it is not the vendor's problem but the post office's. In the end, I lose because I wasn't able to insure them and am out $100. Had I the choice to insure, I would have no one to blame but myself had I chosen to not insure. Sad days in my house for vapemail.

it's a drag we have to buy insurance because the PO can't deliver pkgs correctly! maybe we should have a thread like this for them....... oh wait, they don't care!

 

[ogredog]

Oh Nevermind...

 

[Jfresh859]

Vapedudes will soon offer ups an FedEx options! Fantastico

 

[dragonbone]

I was a heavy smoker until I started vaping. Nothing less than 36mg does it for me. I am quite sure I'm not the only one. I can't tell you how many US eliquid vendors lost my business when they collaborated to make 24mg their 'ultra-high' which is ridiculous. All this does is make chain-vapers out of vapers that aren't being satisfied with their low nicotine e-juices. Thank you to the vendors that realize this and buck the craziness instilled by the 'we know what's best for you' vendors that are simply selling more low nicotine juice to vapers who wonder why they must vape so much to satisfy their addiction.

Kudus to my friends at MyFreedomSmokes, Totally Wicked, Electronic Ash, and others. They will ALWAYS get my ejuice business.

Agreed! I also think that vendors hope to sell more low nic liquid, ie. to make MORE money off the vapers, who have to vape so much more to get their fix. Somehow I don't think that the 'high' 24mg is actually for the benefit of the customer - more likely - quite the opposite.

Oh, and don't forget VaporGod for 36mg juices.

 

[Mr.Mann]

To vendors: While I do appreciate sales like the next customer, you can keep your 5% off sale! I mean seriously? Thanks for showing your appreciation.

 

[Gomtuu]

To vendors: While I do appreciate sales like the next customer, you can keep your 5% off sale! I mean seriously? Thanks for showing your appreciation.

I chuckled a little too loudly at this one, Mr.Mann. I got an email today from a vendor with a 5% off code, and I blinked a couple times, then deleted it. I suppose it's the gesture that counts in these situations...

 

[Orobas]

Oh lord. I know you guys don't want to spill the beans on which vendor it was, but I am curious to know if they're on the pricier end or the more affordable end of the spectrum of prices. Perhaps you can divulge that much?