Moving from TFR (DNA200) to TCR (Yihi 350j)

[Caterpiller]

I'm planning on buying a VaporFlask SX-350j next week, as I can't find any DNA200 's currently available here in Malaysia, I need a back up for my current DNA200, and I have Always liked the form factor of the Vaporflask.

Having just read up on the SX-350j board it seems it doesn't have TFR support for SS316L (which I have on my other DNA200 mod), but instead relies on the user manually inputting a TCR number.

If I'm reading SteamEngine correctly it says the TCR for SS316L is 000879.

The SX-350j can only take five digits, so I'd go with 00088.

Yet when I Google 'TCR value for SS316L' most responses say 00092.

I'm therefore getting confused ‍

In fact I'm starting to wonder if I can get accurate TC using a TCR value?

(Help appreciated)

 

[Walee]

Nope, you have read correctly. And yes, with only the five digits simply round. The four points between the two will make a difference but nothing earth shattering. .00092 will give you a slightly hotter temperature than the .00088. On mods that don't come calibrated correctly I will sometimes have to play with the TCR a little. I have one Think vape that is set to .00165 for SS. You won't need to get that drastic with a Yihi. I have found that I do fine with Yihi using the .00092. I think it may be over temp by a few degrees, not sure. Regardless, wonderful vape.

Here's the formula for TCR. You can see it's a simple linear progression. Temperature Coefficient of Resistance » Resistor Guide

 

[93gc40]

I'm planning on buying a VaporFlask SX-350j next week, as I can't find any DNA200 's currently available here in Malaysia, I need a back up for my current DNA200, and I have Always liked the form factor of the Vaporflask.

Having just read up on the SX-350j board it seems it doesn't have TFR support for SS316L (which I have on my other DNA200 mod), but instead relies on the user manually inputting a TCR number.

If I'm reading SteamEngine correctly it says the TCR for SS316L is 000879.

The SX-350j can only take five digits, so I'd go with 00088.

Yet when I Google 'TCR value for SS316L' most responses say 00092.

I'm therefore getting confused ‍

In fact I'm starting to wonder if I can get accurate TC using a TCR value?

(Help appreciated)

Start somewhere between 88 and 94.... then fine tune over or under to taste....

Some ss builds do beat at the actual TCR some at 70 and others at .00100 plus. Many mods do standard SS TC at approx 120.....



Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[Caterpiller]

@Walee @93gc40

Thanks for your replies.

I'm coming to TC from the angle of wanting to keep my juice below 440f to minimise the potential risks of thermal degradation and the toxins that can be produced at higher temperatures.

What concerns me about your responses is that while it will dial in a good vape to manually change the TCR value - I will at that point not know if my coil is exceeding 440f?

Am I missing something or is it correct that the mods using TCR values are not reliable for accurate TC to a set temperature?

 

[ScottP]

@Walee @93gc40

Thanks for your replies.

I'm coming to TC from the angle of wanting to keep my juice below 440f to minimise the potential risks of thermal degradation and the toxins that can be produced at higher temperatures.

What concerns me about your responses is that while it will dial in a good vape to manually change the TCR value - I will at that point not know if my coil is exceeding 440f?

Am I missing something or is it correct that the mods using TCR values are not reliable for accurate TC to a set temperature?

TCR vales is how ALL TC is done for all materials. If a device has a SS setting, all that is is a factory defined TCR value you can't change. So the question is do you trust their preset TCR value more or less than the one you set yourself?

 

[Caterpiller]

TCR vales is how ALL TC is done for all materials. If a device has a SS setting, all that is is a factory defined TCR value you can't change. So the question is do you trust their preset TCR value more or less than the one you set yourself?

Ok, I thought the TFR values used in my DNA200 were using the entire temperature curve and therefore likely to be more accurate?

I guess if the manufacture installs the settings you have to have faith that they get them right - but you might be right and adding your own could be better, it just feels a little more confusing to me at this point.

 

[ScottP]

Ok, I thought the TFR values used in my DNA200 were using the entire temperature curve and therefore likely to be more accurate?

I guess if the manufacture installs the settings you have to have faith that they get them right - but you might be right and adding your own could be better, it just feels a little more confusing to me at this point.

Yes the DNA device can use a curve and you can set a custom curve with the Software but is your curve more or less accurate than theirs? DJLsb has created a custom curve you can download for DNA devices as well. I thought we were talking about the SX-350j though. The same holds true either way, all the SS setting is is a factory preset. The TCR value on devices (or the curve on DNA devices) may or may not be 100% accurate and your setting may or may not be better.

Also if you look at the SS curve for DNA devices, you will see that it is fairly linear anyway, so a straight TCR value shuoldn't make that much difference anyway. What will make the biggest difference is how quickly and accurately the device can read the resistance and adjust to compensate.

 

[Eskie]

TCR is an inherent property of a metal. Most vendors use presets for Ni, Ti, and SS. Some may offer an adjustable TCR for a metal, which is handy wih stuff like SS, as there are different SS wires, and therefore have different TCRs. Other mods will allow you to vape in either user adjustable profiles/settings/whatever. Generally I'd go with using the TCR of the wire and adjust the wattage and temp for the vape you want. Adjusting TCR from the metal in use will also make the reported temperature inaccurate. The board looks at the resistance change, then uses the known TCR to determine what temperature that resistance is at. Like with TFR, change the slope and the resistance measured will be different than expected, and the calculated temp is off. Here are some common metal types and their TCR.

 

[Walee]

@Walee @93gc40

Thanks for your replies.

I'm coming to TC from the angle of wanting to keep my juice below 440f to minimise the potential risks of thermal degradation and the toxins that can be produced at higher temperatures.

What concerns me about your responses is that while it will dial in a good vape to manually change the TCR value - I will at that point not know if my coil is exceeding 440f?

Am I missing something or is it correct that the mods using TCR values are not reliable for accurate TC to a set temperature?

Ok, you are and are not missing something, lol. You are absolutely correct per your condition of 440°F max per my method. I go entirely by perception. No guarantees that my perception is correct. What I think you may be missing is that every mod is not going to use the same TCR value to achieve the same temperature. For you to set your TCR value "perfectly" you would need to do so using a very accurate thermometer. DJlsb has demonstrated how he uses a temp prob in at least one of his videos.

 

[Walee]

Yes the DNA device can use a curve and you can set a custom curve with the Software but is your curve more or less accurate than theirs? DJLsb has created a custom curve you can download for DNA devices as well. I thought we were talking about the SX-350j though. The same holds true either way, all the SS setting is is a factory preset. The TCR value on devices (or the curve on DNA devices) may or may not be 100% accurate and your setting may or may not be better.

Also if you look at the SS curve for DNA devices, you will see that it is fairly linear anyway, so a straight TCR value shuoldn't make that much difference anyway. What will make the biggest difference is how quickly and accurately the device can read the resistance and adjust to compensate.

Not to minimize or contradict the content of this post, there is a lot that goes into TC behind the scenes and the DNA device gives some insight into this. TFR is non linear and thought to be slightly more accurate. That is because you can set multiple data points along the effective resistance range. Resistance calculations are referential. The voltage drop across the internal resistance is used to calculate the resistance of the atty. Drift in both atty resistance and 510 connection resistance will alter TC. Thermal dynamics of the mod e.g. how the mod heats up and cools also contribute to the accuracy of TC. I have purchased numerous mods from both Lost Vape and Hcigar where these perimeters are not set correctly from the manufacturer. If you watch videos by DJlsb you will find that no mod does a perfect job of TC. Some are much closer than others for sure. @Caterpiller I'm not sure your goal is 100% attainable. You may have to settle for doing your best and setting the temp a little low for a fudge/safety factor.

 

[GeorgeS]

The "confusion" comes in where there is not ONE "SS" but rather several "flavors" of it each with its own TCR. Then adding to the confusion is that since SS is an ALLOY no spool of SS is going to be exactly the same as the next spool. (variations within each subtype)

Personally, I'd just use the chart posted above and dial in temperature to taste.

 

[Caterpiller]

Thanks for all the responses. Between you I have a better understanding of TCR use with TC mods.

I will continue to muddle through.

Edit: P.S: I'm still confused as to the correct TCR for SS316L is it 00088 or 00092?

 

[Eskie]

Thanks for all the responses. Between you I have a better understanding of TCR use with TC mods.

I will continue to muddle through.

Edit: P.S: I'm still confused as to the correct TCR for SS316L is it 00088 or 00092?

316 and 316L are 92. 317 is supposedly 88 but TBH, I've yet to find a wire of 317 to use. The 2 most popular are 316L (which is usually the default for most SS TC factory settings) and 430 at 138. The higher the TCR the more change in resistance and the easier to "calculate in real time". There are some here who use 430, but all my builds have been with the more common 316L and never had any issues with it.

I have DNA mods I use for TC, so I'm used to using TFRs as well. I've not played with a YiHi board so have zero input into the particular board you're setting up, but the YiHi boards are generally well regarded.

Edit: saw it's the Vapor Flask. Enjoy it.