mtbakervapor

[Seanchai]

I understand your point, really I do...but I just think it is possible that once a vendor adds flavoring to nic it becomes much easier for the FDA to add an infinite series of hoops the vendor will need to jump through. I honestly hope that will not be the case, but I am prepared for it nonetheless.

Oh, Stone, I think we're talking at cross-purposes here - I *expect* juice with nic to go away! I hope I'm wrong, but I fully expect juice with nic to be, at best, very difficult to get one's hands on in the near future. I'm talking about whether the flavorings themselves - just the flavorings - might be banned. That's the part that I don't see happening, although I intend to stock up just in case.

When the regs go through, we're all going to be DIYing, taking our chances by ordering from overseas, or taking our chances by ordering juice with nic from vendors who have a "public" page with 0nic flavors and a "private" password protected (or email only) setup for with-nic flavors. The latter is exactly what many Canadian vendors have done.

I do not expect there to be any *legal* way for a vendor to sell juice with nic, or nic base.

 

[Stoneface]

If they try to regulate flavors or pg/vg, they will be up against an impossible-to-win fight because at that point they will have the might of several combined industries breathing down their necks. In the end it will come down to nicotine, and regulating vendors. There may come a time when DIY is the cheaper and easier way to go.

And as it is, results from more and more studies are showing it is not harmful. If they haven't got something in place by the end of the year, they will be hard pressed to enact much of anything that will impact the consumer. Vendor regulation will be another story. Vendors will be regulated at some point and there is no getting around that. Listing exact ingredients and warning labels will just be the start for vendors.

I don't think they will try to regulate flavorings, or PG and VG. However, they might try to regulate a combination of flavorings, PG, VG, and nic. It is possible, IMO.

 

[Ozwald]

PG, VG & flavorings are almost guaranteed to be safe from restrictions/bans. Since we make up a very, very minor percentage of the consumer base of those products, it would cost them a lot more money to enforce a restriction/ban on strictly vaping usage than they'd ever be bringing in. Juice containing nic, ready-to-vape flavored juices (nic or not) & vape specific hardware are the most likely targets.

 

[Stoneface]

Oh, Stone, I think we're talking at cross-purposes here - I *expect* juice with nic to go away! I hope I'm wrong, but I fully expect juice with nic to be, at best, very difficult to get one's hands on in the near future. I'm talking about whether the flavorings themselves - just the flavorings - might be banned. That's the part that I don't see happening, although I intend to stock up just in case.

When the regs go through, we're all going to be DIYing, taking our chances by ordering from overseas, or taking our chances by ordering juice with nic from vendors who have a "public" page with 0nic flavors and a "private" password protected (or email only) setup for with-nic flavors. The latter is exactly what many Canadian vendors have done.

I do not expect there to be any *legal* way for a vendor to sell juice with nic, or nic base.

I hope we're not working at cross purposes
I suppose I think it will go a different way than you do, which is fine because this hasn't happened yet. I also hope that we will have some sort of vaping free market here in the US, but I honestly am not sure what it will look like. Since the FDA can't outright ban flavorings, it makes logical sense to me that flavorings might be separated from nic...and yes, we might all be DIYing in the future.

 

[Uno mas]

It's just funny. Or proof that Americans & the metric system aren't compatible. I wouldn't have put the 0's either, since anything over 999mL is just measured in L anyhow. But the double prefix, Kilo & milli... that's just priceless.

So anyways, I just ordered a .03KmL bottle of...

Sort of like lolol

 

[Criticalmass]

I don't think they will try to regulate flavorings, or PG and VG. However, they might try to regulate a combination of flavorings, PG, VG, and nic. It is possible, IMO.

Yeah, but that won't stop us. We'll just buy unflavored pg/vg/nic and add our own flavoring. It wouldn't surprise me if they did something silly like that, which would cause more issues then it would solve. I can definitely see accidents while mixing happen. Much safer just to let the vendor do it, especially when you consider some of the people who vape that I have encountered out and about.

 

[Stoneface]

Yeah, but that won't stop us. We'll just buy unflavored pg/vg/nic and add our own flavoring. It wouldn't surprise me if they did something silly like that, which would cause more issues then it would solve. I can definitely see accidents while mixing happen. Much safer just to let the vendor do it, especially when you consider some of the people who vape that I have encountered out and about.

100% agreed

 

[Criticalmass]

Yes, yes in deed, you are not a bit looney, your ALOT Looney! Flipper

Several of my invisible friends take offense to that. Orca!

 

[Miarose]

Yeah, but that won't stop us. We'll just buy unflavored pg/vg/nic and add our own flavoring. It wouldn't surprise me if they did something silly like that, which would cause more issues then it would solve. I can definitely see accidents while mixing happen. Much safer just to let the vendor do it, especially when you consider some of the people who vape that I have encountered out and about.

I think that's the catchall or whatever the term is lol. The nic is what's going to be much harder to buy, or what I predict just heavily taxed and all the nic will be owned by the Marlboro man and his friends.

The govt can't touch flavorings. Tax them more, sure. But ban? No. There's be a huge impact on the baking and candy industry thatd it be quite insane.

 

[Miarose]

BTW unos. Iseewutyoudidthur. You know what I'm talking about.

 

[DustyZ]

Oh, Stone, I think we're talking at cross-purposes here - I *expect* juice with nic to go away! I hope I'm wrong, but I fully expect juice with nic to be, at best, very difficult to get one's hands on in the near future. I'm talking about whether the flavorings themselves - just the flavorings - might be banned. That's the part that I don't see happening, although I intend to stock up just in case.

When the regs go through, we're all going to be DIYing, taking our chances by ordering from overseas, or taking our chances by ordering juice with nic from vendors who have a "public" page with 0nic flavors and a "private" password protected (or email only) setup for with-nic flavors. The latter is exactly what many Canadian vendors have done.

I do not expect there to be any *legal* way for a vendor to sell juice with nic, or nic base.

There would be no way that they could ban flavorings, this would create a whole crap storm for them and one in which they would not be able to enforce on any level, so I agree. The sale of Nicotine would more then likely be one area that could fall under their control as it is derived from tobacco. The hardware would also be a bit difficult for them to enforce on any practical level. For Cig-a-likes they could make those difficult and deem that they would not be allowed to have flavoring much like they did with the Clove flavored cigarettes, but to try to get rid of them all, not likely now that BT is marketing them, nicotine could fall under BP area. There are 2 dates that may come into play here, the 2007 and 2011 dates for Significant Equivalent Deeming regs. Will just have to wait and see where this goes. At this point, the longer this goes on the harder it is going to be for them as more and more positive studies have and are being done, be we all know that if it's logical, well, the Gov just seems to go with the illogical! No problem with all the Chantix commercials, in which 95% of the commercial has warnings about what side effects this drug can cause and that is just fine, it's ok if you have depression, suicidal thoughts or actions, changes in mood etc, but god forbid you actually have something that is better for you in the short and long term. Seems that if it's good or less harmful that's bad, if it's bad for you, well that's just fine with them!

 

[Uno mas]

Several of my invisible friends take offense to that. Orca!

You have them too? ummm, seahorse ?

 

[DustyZ]

Several of my invisible friends take offense to that. Orca!

Well, I would tell you to apologize to them for me, but as you can't see them it would be a moot point anyway! Oh look a squirrel!

 

[Criticalmass]

I think that's the catchall or whatever the term is lol. The nic is what's going to be much harder to buy, or what I predict just heavily taxed and all the nic will be owned by the Marlboro man and his friends.

The govt can't touch flavorings. Tax them more, sure. But ban? No. There's be a huge impact on the baking and candy industry thatd it be quite insane.

The nicotine is the easiest for them to regulate and tax. Yes, there are even ways around that if you want to get into naturally extracted tobacco but at that point it gets a lot more complicated for the consumer. I'm already trying to keep one vapor from going back to cigarettes because he refuses to order online (says he doesn't like to wait) and finds the whole process a major hassle.

I was concerned a bit about the nicotine increasing my heart rate but I found that about half an hour after I stop vaping it drops back to normal, and it doesn't go that high while I am vaping. When my pain levels reach a 10, my heart rate is around 140-150 bpm. When I'm vaping heavily it is around 90.... Normal is around 75 for me (because I'm always in some pain).

Coffee raises it further than vaping does (around 105-110 about 15 minutes after a full cup)

 

[Ozwald]

Honestly I think it's just the vaping community overreacting at the moment. The FDA doesn't tax anything, that's all in the hands of congress. The FDA also doesn't impose a ban unless there are known negatives, which are going to require many more years of studies (which the FDA also does not do). They could take a few steps toward that & perhaps change the game a bit, but I highly doubt anything drastic is coming about any time soon. I'm prepared for if/when whatever comes & I would recommend everyone else the same, but I don't think it's anywhere close to a looming threat like a lot of the chatter on ECF leads people to believe.

 

[Mowgli]

I spent about $300/month on cancersticks. I feel I'd have no excuse to not be prepared.

I make juice for myself, my wife, her son, her 2 cousins and a few of my friends.

My nic should last 5 years and the other ingredients will always be available.
I'd like to finish most of my made juice and limit myself to less than 20 flavors.

in freezer
~2075ml of 100mg/ml
~250ml of 60mg/ml

in fridge
~240ml of 20.5mg 67/33

in cabinet
~1250ml PG & ~ 500ml VG

Flavoring
40 FW bottles (most less than 1/2 full) - I sold 2oz of about 30 flavors to a supplier to save cost.
42 MBV bottles (most over half full)
2.25 Hangsen bottles

 

[FearTX]

vape specific hardware

You know, because they have done so well at limiting access to "specific hardware" for things we are not supposed to talk about. There are more shops for that kind of stuff here than there are vape shops. And there are a lot of vape shops here.

 

[Criticalmass]

Well, I would tell you to apologize to them for me, but as you can't see them it would be a moot point anyway! Oh look a squirrel!

 

[Ozwald]

You know, because they have done so well at limiting access to "specific hardware" for things we are not supposed to talk about. There are more shops for that kind of stuff here than there are vape shops. And there are a lot of vape shops here.

But there are other legal uses that can be argued for those products. Probable or logical uses, no, but arguable in court. There's not a whole lot you can do with vape specific hardware other than vape. Actually nothing that I can think of. I'm not talking batteries & Kanthal, I mean cartos & cartotanks & RBA's. Sure my Provari is pretty sturdy, but I don't think it'll hold up as a personal defense device in court.

 

[Criticalmass]

Honestly I think it's just the vaping community overreacting at the moment. The FDA doesn't tax anything, that's all in the hands of congress. The FDA also doesn't impose a ban unless there are known negatives, which are going to require many more years of studies (which the FDA also does not do). They could take a few steps toward that & perhaps change the game a bit, but I highly doubt anything drastic is coming about any time soon. I'm prepared for if/when whatever comes & I would recommend everyone else the same, but I don't think it's anywhere close to a looming threat like a lot of the chatter on ECF leads people to believe.

Well, I thought I read somewhere that the FDA already tried to ban it and the courts came back and told them they couldn't. All the court said was that they COULD regulate it. It's a tricky business. Supposedly there is an application fee of something like $300,000.00 for Big Pharma to have the FDA consider a new drug for approval... The FDA gets all its money to operate from the companies who pay them to test and approve their drugs. So who is paying the FDA to consider regulating vaporizers?

The tricky part is that I am sure it is as complicated as our tax code, and we all know how bad that has gotten.