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Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by DaveP, Mar 20, 2011.

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  1. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    I listened to the live youtube video of the song here: YouTube - Radiohead - Creep Live 94

    He's playing E form bar chords, hitting the 5th and 6th strings together first, then up picking the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, followed by the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, then repeating as the chord changes. It's a common method for slower and sometimes faster songs that don't lend themselves well to full down strums and staccato up strums, although in this case you could do either. You could do a down strum on beat one followed by two staccato (quick) up strums on alternate beats (down on beat 1, quick up strum up on beat 2, and another quick up strum between beat 3 and 4).

    It looks like you have the right chords.
  2. Safira

    Safira Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 14, 2009
    Thanks so much Dave, is this something that will get easier the more I try. It took me all of 10 minutes to figure out the chords, and I thought that would be the hardest part. Once I found that base note I could hear the major or minor and it sounded right with the song. But, then I felt very stupid when I couldn't get what I thought was the easy part.
  3. bander68

    bander68 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 26, 2011
    Conroe, TX
    I've done a lot of arranging for various groups, everything from marching band to orchestras to tejano....when I run into issues figuring out rhythms, I always break it down this way. Establish the beat....find the quarter note and tap your foot. Then get the beats/ number of the time signature. Then, and this is the key....subdivide the beat to whatever the smallest note being played is. Say the subdivision out
    loud while tapping your foot. Repeat over and over and the rhythm will reveal itself.

  4. Safira

    Safira Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 14, 2009
    Thank you so much bander, that sounds like something I can work with.
  5. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    It gets easier the more you play. Keeping a beat in your head is something that comes with playing and a is sense that you can't force. It just becomes more developed as that part of your brain begins to develop along with your motor skills for playing.

    Playing with a metronome is good for developing beat and rhythm. Playing along with recordings is also good. Both force you to maintain the proper rhythm. You'll be surprised when you learn a song and then try to play along with the recording. Little things like how fast you can change chords to keep up enters in at that point. It can be humbling until you do it enough to hone your skills.
  6. Safira

    Safira Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 14, 2009
    That's good to hear Dave because that's what I'm doing. I'm just starting to learn and practice major scales, memorized the G major scale and just starting to do it with a metronome very slowly. I'm also trying to learn my 16th strumming patterns (1 E & a, 2 E & a) I'm using a metronome for that too, tapping my foot and repeating it in my head. But, at this point I haven't learned any real patterns, I'm just getting my head and hands to get used to that up tempo feel.

    Songs, I found out very quickly that I need to play along with the song, back track, or at least a metronome like you said. I thought I had the song American Pie down no problem until I started playing along with the song. I found out I was all over the place in my rhythm and the tempo was not consistent with the song. It's an easy song to learn, but for a beginner such as myself it ended up being a difficult song to perfect. But, I loved that feeling I finally got when it became automatic and I wasn't thinking, just playing.

    I guess I just want to learn things instantly, it didn't take long to figure out the chords for that song, and I wanted the rhythm to come instantly too.

    thank you
  7. bassnut

    bassnut Crumby Jokes ECF Veteran

    Apr 1, 2010
    Los Angeles, CA
    I can relate.
    Personally I believe I don't have any real musical talent. I've always had love, obsession and determination around music to make up for it. Consequently after years of experience most of the things you are now facing come easy to me.

    I know of really technically talented musicians who have explored jazz deeply and from their own words "mastered Bebop" at least from a theoretical point of view. They can play the solos of the masters note for note and then go on to do personal interpretations and embellishments or even bring their knowledge to bare in a whole new song. I am not of that ilk...not by a long shot.

    ..many of them are half my age.

    Then there is what I call the "brick wall" principal.
    You struggle and learn and struggle some more and then hit a brick wall that you can't seem to get beyond.
    So you just keep slammin' against that wall because there is nowhere else for you to go - short of quitting.

    Then one day you realize that the wall is far behind you and you didn't even realize or notice the point when you made the break-thru.
    Not to worry. There's more walls ahead. It never ends.
  8. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    There's mechanics, feel, timing, and inner desire. The mental part of music is part determination and part what we refer to as talent. No one can pick up a guitar at any age and belt out a perfection rendition of any song. What we call talent is the ability to put all the above together and produce music.

    Everyone has different natural skills. Some can easily do math in their heads. Others have a knack for colorful writing. Some people can take raw materials and easily produce things they see in their heads using wood, clay, or paint. Music isn't much different. In all cases, desire rules. Playing is driven by desire first. Desire makes us do the work necessary to put in the time to develop the mechanics and learn the techniques. Past that point, it's a matter of repetition and practice.

    Safira, it's good to hear you are working on the building blocks of music. Scales are important to build the background for soloing. A tip here that you may have already found is that scales repeat up the neck just as bar chords do. If you know the C major scale, just move it two frets up the neck and you can play the D major scale. People who stay below the 5th fret have to learn different fingering for each. If you learn the notes on the 6th and 5th strings, you can play any scale there is with the root on one of these strings. It's a good start that will take you a long way.

    Learning the relationship between the intervals is also a great way to understand chord construction. Much of chord construction, for instance, is related to the 3rd interval. Moving the 3rd up and down in a major chord can change that chord to minor, augmented, and diminished. Adding the 5th, 6th, or 7th interval makes another new chord.

    Here's a good site for viewing these inversions. Check out all the other links to the various instructional pages of this site for other good info.
    E Form Barre Chord
  9. Safira

    Safira Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 14, 2009
    Thanks for the link, it looks like it has a lot of good info on it. I understand a little of what you're saying but those are a lot of the things I'd like to work on this year. Learning the major scale up and down the neck, understanding chord construction, and music theory. I know I have a lot to learn, but those are my goals for this year.
  10. Handthatfeeds242

    Handthatfeeds242 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Well maybe someone can help me here. I played guitar and bass for about 10 years before I got hit my a tractor trailer and smashed my left hand pretty well (I am a righty). So I haven't really played much for the past 5 years. I really miss playing an have been thinking about restringing one of the guitars hanging around my home for a lefty. Anyone have some suggestions other than spinning hardware? also how to go about relearning to play as a lefty?
  11. bassnut

    bassnut Crumby Jokes ECF Veteran

    Apr 1, 2010
    Los Angeles, CA
    Go ahead. Go lefty. What's stopping you?
    You're just going to have to redefine your approach. Lots of great musicians overcome handicaps.
    Django Reinhardt for instance. He was and amazing guitar virtuoso of his time and still inspires millions of guitar players today.
    He had his left hand badly burned in an accident and played with only two fingers for melodic passages and sometimes using a third for chords. Which would you choose? Playing with two fingers of switching to lefty with four?
    Can you dig it?

    Django Reinhardt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  12. bassnut

    bassnut Crumby Jokes ECF Veteran

    Apr 1, 2010
    Los Angeles, CA
    I just found out about this kid on the news. When it comes to POP Culture...well I just quit trying.
    To me this is raw talent out of the box. This kid, with major physical problems, doesn't play an instrument but I'd think seriously about hiring him as a producer for a recording.
    Lip-syncing here, a silly kid in front of a camera in his bedroom doing his thing...He just plain gets it!

    This guy is cool. Nuff said.

    Story here:

    Boy With Rare Disease Becomes Online Lip-Syncing Sensation -
  13. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    Tommy Iommi (of Black Sabbath) lost the tips of his two middle fingers in a machinist accident at age 17. He didn't play for a while and finally figured out that he could put thimble type tips on his fingers and found that he could play again.

    Tony Iommi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I've never tried switching from right to left handed guitar, but a lot of people have done that. Considering that it is hard at first to learn to play right handed, I'd think that most could learn either way given the time and desire to do so. I'd sit down and work on the fundamentals of fingering and chords at first and get those out of the way. Progress from there and see what happens. Since you played previously, you have the dexterity in the other hand and that is a plus. Guitar is not total body coordination as much as it is finger skills. It will feel odd at first, but think back to how you felt when someone put a guitar in your hands the first time!

    I'd try it, Feltsideout. Sit around and noodle while watching TV. After all, that's a good time for dual activities anyway. I like to sit in front of the TV while watching something mindless and play my Les Paul unplugged. I solo with the commercial music tracks and the background music in the shows. It's good practice for ad lib skills because you get hit with odd chord changes. I"m betting that since you played before the accident, you will grab the left handed playing faster than you think. Since you are right handed, you have finer motor skills in your right hand and the left will just have to learn to pick. Keep at it and see what happens. You may be pleasantly surprised.
  14. Handthatfeeds242

    Handthatfeeds242 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Yeah I've been thinking about it for awhile just need to get a guitar setup
  15. Safira

    Safira Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 14, 2009
    Hey Bass that kid isn't to far from me, never seen him before, thanks for that link, he's got a great personality.

    Felt, I say go for it, I see people who are blind play the guitar, or have no hands and play really well with there feet, and lets not forget the Def Leopard drummer who lost an arm. I do have a friend that is left handed but bought a righty guitar and is trying to learn to play right handed instead of buying a lefty guitar and playing lefty. I don't know what kind of guitar you have or what adjustments you'll need, but I've seen people playing acoustic guitar with a cut-out switched over to lefty. (the cut out is on the top of the guitar)

    Start out with easy open chords, and play silly games to get the fingers moving. See how many chord changes you can get in 1 minute. It'll probably start out with 7 or 8 between an open D major and open E major, but I bet soon enough you'll be rockin out. You're ahead of the game since you already understand a lot, it's getting your hand and fingers to learn to do what you want them to. That darned finger independence, is a tough thing.
  16. progg

    progg Account closed on request ECF Veteran

    Apr 17, 2010
    What a fantastic, heroic story. I watched the vid before checking out the Fox link. He sucked me in within seconds. He's got IT.

    Thanks for the post.

    EDIT: By way of introduction -- I've been lurking this thread for some time. I'm a music lover, not a musician. Love the thread, please forgive the intrusion.
  17. Del Boy

    Del Boy Super Member ECF Veteran

    Been playing for thirty years and love it as much today as i ever did.

    biggest buzz for me was buying a guitar from a guy that thought it was a Gibson....No serial number on headstock..... pick up selector switch in the wrong place.....wrong tuning pegs.....just before i went to pick it up he told me..." i don't know what to's a fake". "Ok" i says. "I still like the look of the guitar. And it's got humbuckers. I'll give you a third of the agreed price". "That is so fair of you" he told me.
    I got it home ..played it a while..and i knew it was a bit special. I scraped away some the paint at the top rear of the headstock. Lo and behold there were the numbers that told me it WAS a Gibson made in 1981 at the nashville factory.
    Closest i came to hyper-ventilating. I had wanted a Gibson since my early teens. Never had enough spare money to buy one.

    Making do with a Fender Telecaster was no hardship by any means.

    But to any aspiring musicians out there. Get a Gibson. You cannot fail to play well. Get it set up and play play play and enjoy it your whole life.These guitars are so well made that they get better as they age.
    Brought my playing on 10 years and i'd only had it two months. Quality tones and sound all the way up the volume range.

    The guitar was/is a Gibson Firebrand "The Paul De luxe". I simply cannot leave it alone.
  18. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    Great story, Del Boy. Gibson is a great guitar, but don't forget the Epiphone line, also. I have a Gibson Les Paul and two Epiphone Les Pauls. On is in my avatar and the other is a '56 Reissue Goldtop (that used to be my avatar). I also have a 79 Fender Strat that I bought new and a Fender Squire Tele that I changed the pickups on after I bought it. It now has a set of Texas Specials in it. There's also an Alvarez electric-acoustic and an Italian made Martin knock off in my collection.

    Teles are special guitars. There's not much out there that can sound like one. As much as I like the sound of a Les Paul, I always marvel at the sound of the Tele when I play it on a gig.

    You got quite a deal on the Gibson you bought. One of my friends sons pawned his granddaddy's Martin D28 after granddad died. She had to go rescue it from the pawn shop. They gave him $100 for it on pawn and it was in good shape. There are some deals out there, but they are few and far in between. I shuddered when she told me about it. the pawn shop owner would have marked it up for a 2000% profit.
  19. Del Boy

    Del Boy Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jeeeez. That Martin.

    Gotta agree with you on the Epi's. Great guitars. Great sound. My son has an Epi SG. Lovely to play.

    Maybe the Les Paul i've got has special pick ups or something. Cos i can make sounds soooo pure and clean. Then with a flick of my Boss GT6 it can sound sooo heavy and dirty. I run it through a fender champ 12. Nothing special i'm told. But it's a neat size and a fat as you like sound. My spare room rocks.

    I too have a squier strat. I have a Les Paul copy an sg copy a fender jazz bass an electro-acoustic and a banjo. I record on a little zoom mrs4 Digital 4 track.

    I was in a lot of bands and had some great times. Nothing famous. Doing 95% covers. Looking back i should written more. Should've gone that route. Not for fame but for creative satisfaction.

    Shame we live a couple of thousand miles apart i'd be up for a jam. I'd love to hear a few of those guitars you got there.

    I was going to be like carlos santana, Mark Knopfler, clapton, Page, Slash, all rolled into one. But in the end i was just me trying to sound like them. Now i just sound like me.

    What do you play through Dave ? I have the Fender 12 with my gt6 in front. I also have two H&H amps. An IC100, and a Performer. Those two are unplayable at home though. On volume one they shake the house.
    I still live the dream for half hour maybe an hour every night. Swapped the stage for a spare room and i'm having a gas.

    Like i said ... Still loving
  20. Fazed

    Fazed Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 22, 2011
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Bass player here. My main bass is a Dingwall Super-J P/J active/passive 4 string. My back up is a homemade p-bass I made out of prices parts. For what it is, I'm surprised how well it plays and how good it sounds.

    My bass face...

    Sent via cellular communication device...
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