When Ben started this, it was a time when a lot of vendors had proprietary PG/VG ratios and not many offered full VG. I think he just thought he would target that market, and it kept things simple for him.
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My Boba's clone
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When Ben started this, it was a time when a lot of vendors had proprietary PG/VG ratios and not many offered full VG. I think he just thought he would target that market, and it kept things simple for him.
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With everyone sorting out the flavors and trying different recipes, it is just a matter of time. Someone may already have it duplicated by accident and never tried BB, or someone following these threads is very close.
I just had a very interesting and enlightening conversation with Linda at TPA about tobacco Absolute Pure and the tobacco molecules she sells on her site. I also needed to get some more TA pure. I guess I may be S.O.L. on the latter.
According to Linda the shortages in supply of TA pure are a result of two things. The FDA has apparently classified it as a toxic substance so her supplier needs to find an alternate shipping method for it, likely ground only. Also, she believes the stock of TA pure has been hit hard and is being bought out in bulk. Her large orders for it will only be filled by smaller quantities. She did say they may stop listing TA pure on the site altogether.
Her "suspicion" is that the big tobacco boys are buying it up for their ecig lines and trying to dry up the supply to smaller vendors.
So Ben may be forced to change Bobas bounty IF (if being the caveat here) there is TA in it. The recent grumblings of some of his recent (and long time) customers say that he may already have and just isnt talking about it.
She did tell me that the molecules used for making the tobacco flavorings likely can be mixed directly into VG but Id have to do some testing to see how well it worked. She didnt have a handle on it decisively.
So there ya go on that front folks.
According to Linda the shortages in supply of TA pure are a result of two things. The FDA has apparently classified it as a toxic substance so her supplier needs to find an alternate shipping method for it, likely ground only. Also, she believes the stock of TA pure has been hit hard and is being bought out in bulk. Her large orders for it will only be filled by smaller quantities. She did say they may stop listing TA pure on the site altogether.
Her "suspicion" is that the big tobacco boys are buying it up for their ecig lines and trying to dry up the supply to smaller vendors.
So Ben may be forced to change Bobas bounty IF (if being the caveat here) there is TA in it. The recent grumblings of some of his recent (and long time) customers say that he may already have and just isnt talking about it.
She did tell me that the molecules used for making the tobacco flavorings likely can be mixed directly into VG but Id have to do some testing to see how well it worked. She didnt have a handle on it decisively.
So there ya go on that front folks.
I haven't noticed a change in Boba's. That's not to say that there wasn't a change, but, vaping it right now and it's as good as ever 
Interesting stuff, none the less.
Interesting stuff, none the less.
I know that Ben made mention that there is no alcohol in the blend. However, and I know I'm not alone in this, but last night my fiancee said my breath smelled like alcohol just after a solid vape of Boba's. There is alcohol based TA... though, I'm not necessarily saying that it's there. Just answering a question with another question.
That is a very interesting comment as right now at this point I am vaping two different liquids, one Boba's and the other a DIY I was fiddling with, the DIY is a dark chocolate blend and I added 1% of TFA's TMP for short full name is:
TMP - Tetramethylpyrazine 10% (PG) taste description: Nutty, musty, cocoa, drying, peanut-like and raw coffee notes
But this mixture is giving me that alcohol breath you indicated you fiancée noticed with the Boba's and I have to admit I get it with the Boba's too. Since I haven't drank any alcohol for over a year, it does seem strange to me, but really never connected it until now.
I realize the TMP is in PG, so it can't be what is in Boba's but the aftertaste is similar.
Tpa has tobacco absolute in pg, tobacco absolute in alcohol. Both are made from tobacco absolute pure.
Tobacco absolute pure can be mixed into VG successfully. I have done it, so have others.
The TMP Elantis referred to is made from a tobacco molecule. According to Linda and my conversation with her that molecule may be able to be mixed in VG as well. Thats the reason I wrote ro her to find out if it was even possible. Essentially you buy the molecules used for tobacco flavorings, mix them down into VG, and you have flavorings.
Tobacco absolute pure can be mixed into VG successfully. I have done it, so have others.
The TMP Elantis referred to is made from a tobacco molecule. According to Linda and my conversation with her that molecule may be able to be mixed in VG as well. Thats the reason I wrote ro her to find out if it was even possible. Essentially you buy the molecules used for tobacco flavorings, mix them down into VG, and you have flavorings.
The alcohol breath could be from a combination of malt and cereal such as:
METHYLBUTYRALDEHYDE 1% (PG)
taste description: Musty and rummy, with nutty and cereal notes - caramel and fruity undernotes
and a malt flavoring such as ETHYL MALTOL.
Thoughts?
METHYLBUTYRALDEHYDE 1% (PG)
taste description: Musty and rummy, with nutty and cereal notes - caramel and fruity undernotes
and a malt flavoring such as ETHYL MALTOL.
Thoughts?
I don't know what I think about that, Tig.
I don't know what methylbutyraldehyde is, and I don't know if there's ethyl maltol in Boba's, but a combination of malt and cereal sounds delicious.
I don't know what methylbutyraldehyde is, and I don't know if there's ethyl maltol in Boba's, but a combination of malt and cereal sounds delicious.
ok, so back in my home brew beer making days we would buy a can of premade malt and cereal to make our brew. These are the two basic ingredients that most people commonly would associate with the smell of beer.
EM you already know as a sweetner but it also has a very distinctive malt smell to it.
Methylbutyraldehyde is one of the flavoring molecules used by big tobacco companies and others like Seedmans and is also sold by TPA in their Tobacco Molecules section.
So, the combination of these two could result in the illusion of someone having beer breath.
Possibly these 2 added to TA or a tobacco extract and you've got your three T'bac ingredients.
EM you already know as a sweetner but it also has a very distinctive malt smell to it.
Methylbutyraldehyde is one of the flavoring molecules used by big tobacco companies and others like Seedmans and is also sold by TPA in their Tobacco Molecules section.
So, the combination of these two could result in the illusion of someone having beer breath.
Possibly these 2 added to TA or a tobacco extract and you've got your three T'bac ingredients.
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Tigdag, you are exactly onto why I have been thinking about how those molecules can be used. As Linda explained it quite simply to me, the molecules are what all the flavorings are made from. The must be diluted down of course. You would never take them full strength. But those dilutions, if possible in VG, would make any number of flavorings. Either alone, or in combination with each other.
Now, that being said, its even more likely that a bobas clone could definitely be made with either alc or pg based flavorings. The only difference being said carrier.
What Im trying to say is.... frankly... it shouldnt matter one darn bit that bobas is pg free. We shouldnt even have to look for pg and alc free flavorings. If we were making an exact copy maybe but as I see it if all flavorings are made similarly then the flavor molecules in it should srill be on point. The only difference being the "taste" of the carrier. It wouldnt be that far from the ballpark regardless.
Ive been too busy to mix this past week. So Im going to try and find some time tomorrow to try a few more things.
Now, that being said, its even more likely that a bobas clone could definitely be made with either alc or pg based flavorings. The only difference being said carrier.
What Im trying to say is.... frankly... it shouldnt matter one darn bit that bobas is pg free. We shouldnt even have to look for pg and alc free flavorings. If we were making an exact copy maybe but as I see it if all flavorings are made similarly then the flavor molecules in it should srill be on point. The only difference being the "taste" of the carrier. It wouldnt be that far from the ballpark regardless.
Ive been too busy to mix this past week. So Im going to try and find some time tomorrow to try a few more things.
Care to elaborate Cyrus?
What does acerone have to do with this? I just looked up the chem informatiin on acetone and couldnt find a coorelation. I know maybe we are verging off topic but Im interested in what you are referring to or what the link is here.
What does acerone have to do with this? I just looked up the chem informatiin on acetone and couldnt find a coorelation. I know maybe we are verging off topic but Im interested in what you are referring to or what the link is here.
Good luck with that buffalo! I'm going to start doing some extracts to see if anything might be usable in this clone hunt. I have 4 cigars and 5 pipe tobaccos that I need to net. Even if nothing pans out for this project I'm sure I'll get some new juices to try.
Happy hunting!
I've been playing with the "flavor" molecules for a while, in a different context. I worked out a clone of Halo Tribeca a long time ago using Acetyl Pyrazine (AP is very RY4, at least if you consider Tribeca an RY4). I came to the conclusion (back when I cared
) that the 'secret' ingredient in Halo Prime 15 and many a 555 was trimethyl pyrazine. Also messed with guiaicol and caryophyllene oxide (spelling?!) and don't care for them at all.Anyway, recently in the halo clone thread tetramethyl pyrazine (haven't tried it yet) and methylbutryaldehyde came up as things that work for Prime 15 clones, so I picked them up to see what all the buzz is about. Methylbutryaldeyhde and trimethyl pyrazine have potent chemical aroma, kind of musty and rummy yes, but nosing the bottle they really smack of acetone. I wasn't saying there's a chemical relationship, sorry about that!
As far as vaping goes, the dominant note I'm getting with MBA + unflavored 18 mg as 'chemical-fruity," with a weak background of musty/rummy. Again acetone comes to mind for a different reason (I've never vaped it!
). Type I diabetics can develop a condition called diabetic ketoacidosis, in which "ketone bodies" (acetone in this context) is released via the respiratory tract. You can detect this on their breath in fact. The short of it: the smell is often compared to juicy fruit gum or acetone.
Sadly I would guess that if any of these compounds (the one's I own, I mean) are in Bobas, they are in such combinations with other things to be unrecognizable. They do in my experience interact with other flavors in unpredictable ways and end up 'vanishing' and turning into something new, but its difficult to predict because they all have an overriding chemical vibe to them (less the AP, but its still there). There are odd juices where the compounds seem to really jump out as a primary note (Prime 15/TrimethylP, Tribeca/AP, FA latakia/guiaicol (pretty sure on the last one anyway).
Amen. If a Ford with a Chevy motor performs as well as a Ford with a Ford motor, who cares?
Thanks for clarifying Cyrus! Good info there too as well. Do you happen to know if the molecules can be diluted into VG?
For me, the idea of avoiding pg-base flavorings was to get as close to replicating the recipe as feasible. Even if we knew all of the components, we still may not get the ratios 100% correct. Honestly, if someone wants to use pg-base ingredients in their clone, and it tastes good and helps them to stay off cigs, I'd say that's fantastic. Personally, I'm looking towards finding as close to a replica as possible.
In my own mixes I use pg-based flavorings, but in much smaller proportions than Boba's supposedly has (flavor %, not pg). Anyways, the idea of staying on track with non-pg based flavorings was merely a clue to help figure out what possible ingredients could be involved. Once that riddle is close to, if not completely solved, the carrier will hold no objective meaning.
The thing that intrigues me so much about Bobas is not so much the tobacco flavors but the honey smooth vape you get from it. I've not experienced that with any other eliquid.
I have some fresh Bobas on the way but have been sniffing a well steeped bottle for a while now and I'm now actually believing that it's possible that one of the ingredients is tea made from vg/distilled water and some kind of honey flavored tea.
Here's my rational:
-I'm now smelling tea in it
-The color would be correct
-You can use a very high % of it in the mix depending on how much flavor infuses in the vg/distilled water
-Boba is a kind of tea
-Bounty sounds like tea
-Tea leaves leave some floating particles and those are present
Well there's only one way to find out. I'll be stopping off on the way home to pick up some honey flavored tea.
If you can get that honey flavor and smoothness I don't think it would even matter what tobacco flavor you use. Probably the dark would help mask the actually tea flavor better than others.
I'll let you know my findings...
I have some fresh Bobas on the way but have been sniffing a well steeped bottle for a while now and I'm now actually believing that it's possible that one of the ingredients is tea made from vg/distilled water and some kind of honey flavored tea.
Here's my rational:
-I'm now smelling tea in it
-The color would be correct
-You can use a very high % of it in the mix depending on how much flavor infuses in the vg/distilled water
-Boba is a kind of tea
-Bounty sounds like tea
-Tea leaves leave some floating particles and those are present
Well there's only one way to find out. I'll be stopping off on the way home to pick up some honey flavored tea.
If you can get that honey flavor and smoothness I don't think it would even matter what tobacco flavor you use. Probably the dark would help mask the actually tea flavor better than others.
I'll let you know my findings...
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