It would ONLY offend the offenders, so I think it was perfect!Thank you Kelly, I hope "I" wasn't too harsh.
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I've been bugging Richie G for info on multimeters. I don't have one yet as I'm going to be using stock batteries for another couple of weeks but I gather they test the charger and the batteries.
Sorry about the little type. I was afraid I was coming off like a school marm. And, at the time I wrote what you quoted, there had only been 2 or 3 comments like that and they were primarily of the "I hope you learned your lesson, young man" type. This thread didn't start resembling a Scandinavian cave until several pages later.
I found the ones I've been using. They're here:
Kit: 4 RCR123A 3.0V 900mAh Rechargeable Li-Ion Protected Batteries with a Smart Charger | Battery Superstore
So it seems they are protected, even though they did not state it on the batteries themselves.
I've only used them once or twice so far. At the time, I only had regular atomizers, no HV. I didn't have any problem with my regular atty burning out, but figured I would hold off using them again until I got some HV's.
Debbie
Kit: 4 RCR123A 3.0V 900mAh Rechargeable Li-Ion Protected Batteries with a Smart Charger | Battery Superstore
So it seems they are protected, even though they did not state it on the batteries themselves.
I've only used them once or twice so far. At the time, I only had regular atomizers, no HV. I didn't have any problem with my regular atty burning out, but figured I would hold off using them again until I got some HV's.
Debbie
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Thanks Deb (hope you don't mind the shortened version of your name)
Please let us know how they work for you. If you have access to a volt meter, check to see what voltage they have after a full charge. If they are much over 3v each, watch your atty's and let us know if they stop working.
ps, by the time I typed this "(hope you don't mind the shortened version of your name)" I could have just typed Debbie. I can be a silly man sometimes. ;-)
No voltmeter. I guess I should take a run to RadioShack and get one and try to figure out how to use it.
Deb, Debbie, whatev
Deb, Debbie, whatev
you can get a cheap meter at Harbor freight or even walmart if you're so inclined (radio shack can be a tad pricey sometimes) and for just monitoring and checking your batteries and possibly atties you don't need a super expensive model...No voltmeter. I guess I should take a run to RadioShack and get one and try to figure out how to use it.
Deb, Debbie, whatev
Also ask CTJ her opinions on those batteries I believe she's used them...
and by the way in the description in what you linked the site says that they are protected..
* Fully protected against over-charge, over-discharge, over-current and short-circuit. *
* Internal over-charge and over-discharge protection to prevent battery over use. The current will be shut off when the battery voltage drops below 2.5V. * Internal Voltage Regulators. * Dimension: 16 D x 34 H mm. (The height 34mm includes the button top).
Though with the listed height I'd expect it to be about 2mm taller...that's throwing me a bit..might just be a variance due to manufacturer..
When you add in shipping, Amazon Marketplace has that one for less -- for anyone with an Amazon gift card burning a hole in his or her pocket.
ETA: It says it has "Low battery indicator." Will it also tell you if a battery is overcharged? (I know I'm overthinking the whole multimeter thing but...)
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You want a multimeter to check voltage and ohms (resistance). Any multimeter will do that. You want a digital multimeter. Really cheap ones have a needle gauge on them and usually aren't very accurate. Don't cheap out on the multimeter. Spend $30 or $40. They last forever and you can use them for millions of things around the house, car, etc.
With a digital multimeter you set it to DCv and put the red probe on the positive end of the battery and the black probe on the negative end of the battery. Voltage is displayed on the display. The battery manufacturer will list the max voltage and the min voltage for the operating range. When it comes off the charger it should not be over the max voltage. When it gets down towards the min voltage it's time to charge it. You can check the max voltage off the charger once and verify that you're using the right charger for the battery and that it's working correctly. You can check the battery when your vaping starts to drop off and get an idea when they're ready for recharging.
You can set it to ohms and check the atomizer you're using. Center hole is positive and outside threads are negative. For example a new Joye 510 should measure at 2.1 to 2.3 ohms. That's the resistance. If you find it's not performing and it is measuring 3 or 4 ohms it's probably ready to burn out or quit. Get ready to start using your spare. If it's measuring significantly more than that then it's burnt out and it won't be working at all. If it's measuring less than 2 ohms and close to zero then it's shorted and should be tossed immediately.
To figure amps measure the resistance of your atomizer. Figure out how many volts you're applying to it -- two 3v batterys is going to be 6v. If they're 3.6v off the charger then they would be supplying 7.2v. If you can't use the formulas then a simple google will turn up something like this.
Calculations voltage current resistance and electric power - electricity calculation - electrical power general formula ohms law physics formula wheel power formulas amps watts volts ohms cosine equation audio engineering pie chart charge - sengpiela
So let's take those tenergy 3v "safe" batteries pictured above that you said "thanks guys!" for an example.
They're lifepo4s. That's "safe" technology. They say they won't explode or burn. They don't say they can't be made to vent. Doesn't matter if they vent slowly or not. If they vent inside a sealed pipe it's possible it could explode.
Safe batteries? Yes.
Won't explode? Yes.
Won't burn? Yes.
Can you hurt yourself? Yes. All you have to do is use them in an application they weren't intended for or abuse them.
Let's take the same batteries and figure they come off the charger at 3.6v. That's what the manufacturer lists as the charger cutoff voltage.
Stack 2 of them for "6v" vaping. They would be in "series". Now you have 2 x 3.6 = 7.2v
If you measure your Joye 510 atomizer and find it provides 2.2 ohms resistance you can plug those two numbers into that calculator listed above and you get a current of 3.27 Amps.
What's the manufacturers listed max discharge rate for those batteries? < 550 mA. That translates to "less than 0.55 Amps". You think maybe you're exceeding the manufacturer's rated discharge rate?
Yes, That's going to produce a whopping 23.56 watts... that's hot.
Lets get to something more reasonable. Let's say they're at 3v and you're producing 6v across the 2.2 ohm load. Plug those two numbers in and you're down to 2.73 Amps. What's the manufacturer's maximum discharge rate?
Is it "safe"? Yea, probably very safe... if you're pushing the button for a few seconds at a time and they're resting inbetween. How about if the button is stuck because it's in your pocket or purse with something holding it down? Well, maybe not so much any more. But they're safe batteries right? Yes. They won't explode and they won't burn. If the metal tube you have them in is sealed it doesn't matter how slowly they vent. If the pressure builds up enough and the metal cylinder fails it may fail violently. What are the chances of that? Probably very small. Even without drilling holes I think the switch is vented to some extent but do you know what the flow rate is and do you know what the vent rate of the batteries will be in the case that you overdrive them to that extent?
Would I use it? Sure.
Would I feel safe? Sure.
Would I put those on the "safe" battery list? Probably. But any such list is kind of pointless without being in the context of a specific application.
Should you use them? With no awareness of anything other than it was listed on the "safe" battery list? (Because you don't care to make an effort to understand the above?) NO.
Oh, jees, I'm being contentious again. I'll take your cue. I'm done with this thread.
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I'm no battery expert, but here's what I've come to believe after my reading.
Protected batteries can fail just as violently as unprotected. While the protection circuit can help avoid circumstances that lead to failure, all Lithium Ion batteries are inherently dangerous. Lithium Ion batteries can become unstable if overcharged, over depleted, or if too much current is drawn from them. The protection circuit in most protected batteries will protect against some or all of these conditions. That said, protected or unprotected, they can all fail violently.
When buying batteries make sure of what you're getting. Make sure you are getting RECHARGEABLE Li-Ion, LiFePO4, etc. It seems most people have had good luck with the TrustFire and UltraFire brands. Everyone seems to swear by AW. I think the point is buy a quality brand name battery from a reliable source. If the batteries aren't marked as they should be when you get them, then DO NOT use them.
Use a quality charger with an auto shut off feature. Most 3 volts batteries should only be charged to 3.6 volts maximum. Most 3.7 volt ones should only be charged to 4.2 volts maximum. If your charger is charging your batteries to voltages above these, throw the batteries and charger away, and get some better ones. Overcharging these batteries is a good way to have one fail.
If you are using unprotected batteries you must be very aware of how far you are depleting them. Once lithium ion batteries start to die, they die quick. So at the first sign that vapor production is dropping, change them out. Just a few more presses of the button can deplete them to a dangerously low level. It's a good idea to put a volt meter on your batteries regularly, and you should have a volt meter if you have a mod. Even when using protected batteries there is no need, and it's probably a bad idea, to hammer them until the protection circuit kicks in and shuts them down. Most 3 volt batteries should not be depleted below 2.0-2.2 volts. Most 3.7 volt batteries should not be depleted below 2.8 volts.
If a battery looks funny, smells funny, get's hot, etc... throw it away. Also throw away any batteries that have been overcharged, over depleted, shorted, or are no longer holding a charge. There is no need risking life and limb over a $2 battery. If there is ever anything about your batteries that seems different, ditch them, they just aren't worth it.
I agree mod makers need to take more responsibility in making the safest product possible. Sufficient vent holes or slots are a must, or you have a bomb in your hand if something goes wrong. A good quality switch is a must, preferably that can be locked in the off position or a secondary cutoff switch. Remember, if you are carrying your mod in a purse, pocket, etc... where the button could get depressed, at least remove the atomizer, and it's best to remove the batteries. Any spare batteries should be carried in a plastic or other insulated case to avoid damage to the battery and to reduce the risk of shorting out the battery.
In most of the failures I've read about, something abnormal happened just before things got real bad. Vapor dropped off, vapor production stopped, mod got warm or hot, etc... Many people, including myself, seem to have the tendency to keep hitting the switch, thinking it will work the next push of the button. DON'T DO IT. If something is abnormal, STOP, and suspect the batteries first.
I don't work for nor do I receive any compensation of any kind from the companies or products I might have mentioned. I'm also by no means an expert on mods or batteries. While I believe this information to be factually correct you should always verify any specific information about your own batteries, chargers, and mods yourself.
I'm glad the OP is alright, be safe, happy vaping.
David
Protected batteries can fail just as violently as unprotected. While the protection circuit can help avoid circumstances that lead to failure, all Lithium Ion batteries are inherently dangerous. Lithium Ion batteries can become unstable if overcharged, over depleted, or if too much current is drawn from them. The protection circuit in most protected batteries will protect against some or all of these conditions. That said, protected or unprotected, they can all fail violently.
When buying batteries make sure of what you're getting. Make sure you are getting RECHARGEABLE Li-Ion, LiFePO4, etc. It seems most people have had good luck with the TrustFire and UltraFire brands. Everyone seems to swear by AW. I think the point is buy a quality brand name battery from a reliable source. If the batteries aren't marked as they should be when you get them, then DO NOT use them.
Use a quality charger with an auto shut off feature. Most 3 volts batteries should only be charged to 3.6 volts maximum. Most 3.7 volt ones should only be charged to 4.2 volts maximum. If your charger is charging your batteries to voltages above these, throw the batteries and charger away, and get some better ones. Overcharging these batteries is a good way to have one fail.
If you are using unprotected batteries you must be very aware of how far you are depleting them. Once lithium ion batteries start to die, they die quick. So at the first sign that vapor production is dropping, change them out. Just a few more presses of the button can deplete them to a dangerously low level. It's a good idea to put a volt meter on your batteries regularly, and you should have a volt meter if you have a mod. Even when using protected batteries there is no need, and it's probably a bad idea, to hammer them until the protection circuit kicks in and shuts them down. Most 3 volt batteries should not be depleted below 2.0-2.2 volts. Most 3.7 volt batteries should not be depleted below 2.8 volts.
If a battery looks funny, smells funny, get's hot, etc... throw it away. Also throw away any batteries that have been overcharged, over depleted, shorted, or are no longer holding a charge. There is no need risking life and limb over a $2 battery. If there is ever anything about your batteries that seems different, ditch them, they just aren't worth it.
I agree mod makers need to take more responsibility in making the safest product possible. Sufficient vent holes or slots are a must, or you have a bomb in your hand if something goes wrong. A good quality switch is a must, preferably that can be locked in the off position or a secondary cutoff switch. Remember, if you are carrying your mod in a purse, pocket, etc... where the button could get depressed, at least remove the atomizer, and it's best to remove the batteries. Any spare batteries should be carried in a plastic or other insulated case to avoid damage to the battery and to reduce the risk of shorting out the battery.
In most of the failures I've read about, something abnormal happened just before things got real bad. Vapor dropped off, vapor production stopped, mod got warm or hot, etc... Many people, including myself, seem to have the tendency to keep hitting the switch, thinking it will work the next push of the button. DON'T DO IT. If something is abnormal, STOP, and suspect the batteries first.
I don't work for nor do I receive any compensation of any kind from the companies or products I might have mentioned. I'm also by no means an expert on mods or batteries. While I believe this information to be factually correct you should always verify any specific information about your own batteries, chargers, and mods yourself.
I'm glad the OP is alright, be safe, happy vaping.
David
Just FYI. I'm using these...
6 RCR123A 3.0V 750mAh LiFePO4 Rechargeable Batteries with a Smart Charger
and off the charger they read 3.98v. which is .38 over what they say maximum charge is. I'm on my 2nd HV atty. The first one lasted just over 3 weeks. The current one I'm using is on day 7 with no problems.
Debbie be careful with that multimeter. It's fine for our little batteries and small stuff but don't go using it on anything with REAL electricity. This one blew up (literally
) at my husband's work. Someone grabbed it and used it on a high voltage machine and it can't take it. It was purchased at Harbor Freight to be used by his company to test batteries.
Good to know Houdini. It looks like I will probably toss those batteries and charger or keep them for something other than vaping. Although the chemistry they are made of says they won't/can't explode, I'm not taking any chances that close to my face. That's great information on the HV atty's because I liked 6+v vaping. Heavens Gifts have a great price on regular atomizers and they come with a 6 month warrenty, no questions asked.
Very nice summation. Thanks!
Debbie be careful with that multimeter. It's fine for our little batteries and small stuff but don't go using it on anything with REAL electricity. This one blew up (literally
Thanks for the warning. I just plan on using it for batteries though. Hopefully, I won't blow up the multimeter.
Debbie
Thank you so much for continuing to post replies so that, hopefully, everyone will understand that you did everything you thought you needed to do to order the right battery. This is confusing stuff for the non-teckies. In fact, I'm not sure I would describe what happened to you as "user error." I would, however, conclude that your experience shows a real need for clear, easily-accessible battery information for us newbies. I'm about to email Trog in advance of receiving my new SDs because I am concerned about ordering replacement batteries after what I've read here. So glad you're ok
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