My concerns about vaping

[MrSmith99]

I am a cigarette smoker of 30+ years and have found it hard to quit. You know you’re hooked when your digging through the trash at 2am looking for puff-able buts because all the stores around you are closed. LOL.
So, I just bought some 510’s and hope to switch to vaping within a week. But I still have concerns which I thought I’d post here.

My concerns:

1. You are inhaling copious amounts of water into your lungs for long periods of time. I would think this would lead to more respiratory infections, possibly even pneumonia. Bacteria, virus, and parasites love warm moist environments. Even if you can’t get a “bug” from vaping I would think keeping your lungs moist would entice the bugs that are already there (We are surrounded by a sea of biota.) If you are a long time vaper, do you notice more colds/coughs or doctor required lung infections? Bronchitis? Pneumonia?

2. My father used a large atomizer to ingest medicine when he had emphysema (He died of cigarette smoking). The cleaning ritual for the equipment was very lengthy and involved. My father said it didn’t help much and rarely used it because of all the hassle. I notice there are absolutely no cleaning/sterilizing routines for E-cigs. Can an E-cig be that germ free with all the liquids and handling it receives?

3. It kind of freaks me out that people buy liquids from non-regulated companies and individuals (other hobbyist) and then vaporize and inhale that liquid. You are literally buying drugs off the street and then consuming them in the most intimate way possible. You are risking your ability to breath and your general health to complete strangers out to make a buck. It sounds pretty dangerous. Doesn’t this bother you at all?

4. There is no way to determine exactly how much nicotine, if any, someone put in a cartridge. How do you know it’s not a nicotine analog such as imidacloprid? There could be anything in it…Or, nothing at all. Is there some kind of test we can do on e-liquid to find out nicotine amounts? You can test co-cane (sp.) in the field, why not nicotine?

5. I have to agree that vaping seems to have face validity. That is, it sounds like a reasonable argument that it would be safer and healthier than nasty tobacco cigarettes, which I currently smoke. If it is valid, then shouldn’t there be a small but growing doctor recommendation for e-cigs for people who smoke? I have seen a few doctors come out in favor of them. But I wonder if there are larger groups/organizations of doctors that recommend for smokers to switch to vaping? Anyone know of such a group?

[FONT="][/FONT]Any replies are appreciated

 

[RubenX]

I'm a noob but as per #1... you only put a few drops of liquid on the cartridge. That hardly copious amounts of water.

As per the rest, looks like a troll but will give the benefit of the doubt.

 

[cta08052]

First of all, I don't believe that too many doctors would recommend using nicotine to begin with. But I did see a doctor just the other day (a Duke physician). I told her that I used nicotine and she said that I should quit smoking....then I said that I don't smoke but that I use the electric device to which she replied: Oh, Excellent! I have seen some news clips on different websites where doctors have stated that nicotine in of itself is not really such a bad thing, but the other 5000 chems in tobacco smoke are the great concern. I do work in a respiratory related health science. Propylene Glycol is being studied. It is used for delivering breathing treatments. It has also been recently discovered that this common chemical actually kills the H1N1 virus in various studies involving mice. Personally I have a terrible respiratory system from years of smoking. Since I am using the ecig, I have much less phlegm in my throat and I can actually breathe and sing better. I don't know if it is coincidental....but I won't argue. As for inhalation of water vapor, when you get sick you may use a vaporizer which is steam driven, hence water vapor. Also a humidifier puts more water in the air to breathe. If you buy pharmaceutical grade products such as from totallywicked, you should be ok.

Best of luck

CTA

 

[taz666]

if you are that concerned then don't do it. I tried cold turkey and no one in the public was safe. my doctor didn't encourage it or discourage it

 

[classwife]

Welcome to ECF MrSmith. !!!!

All valid concerns. Here is the link to the Health and safety section for you....lots of reading, but should ease (some) of your concerns....

Health, Safety and E-Smoking

 

[throatkick]

It is fine to have concerns. Nothing wrong with that. You will find that there are existing studies and new ones being conducted that should answer many of your questions. Look around.

Welcome!

 

[JollyRogers]

I had the same concerns, sort of.
1. Never had a problem. 1 year analog free after 30 years smoking.
2. You can clean your atomizers, cartridges, and drip tips daily if you wish, no one is stopping you.
3. I am careful regarding liquids. What is interesting to me, is UK vendors list the ingredients etc... I am not really into trading DIY nicotine mixtures, but some are. Do what you want, but it isn't regulated. Another option, is for YOU to DIY mix, then you know what is in it.
4. Probably cause nicotine is not illegal. I haven't had a problem here either. However, again... mix your own then. Course there is a certain amount of trust in the base nicotine you use, now isn't there.
5. Not that I am aware of. I really don't care either. I smoked for 30 years. This has been working for me. I started @24mg nicotine, and now am at 11, (24mg actually makes me quesy now).

Your doubt about this is not something I haven't considered, especially when I started vaping. However, realise this is your phsyc coming up with reasons not to vape and to keep smoking. Good luck.

 

[mlinky]

Also, as to why there isn't a huge wave of support for vaping, it's small businesses who are providing vaping supplies, up against money being poured into misinformation by the pharmacuetical companies. My doc is thrilled with it.

 

[Brewlady]

I am a cigarette smoker of 30+ years and have found it hard to quit. You know you’re hooked when your digging through the trash at 2am looking for puff-able buts because all the stores around you are closed. LOL.
So, I just bought some 510’s and hope to switch to vaping within a week. But I still have concerns which I thought I’d post here.

My concerns:

1. You are inhaling copious amounts of water into your lungs for long periods of time. I would think this would lead to more respiratory infections, possibly even pneumonia. Bacteria, virus, and parasites love warm moist environments. Even if you can’t get a “bug” from vaping I would think keeping your lungs moist would entice the bugs that are already there (We are surrounded by a sea of biota.) If you are a long time vaper, do you notice more colds/coughs or doctor required lung infections? Bronchitis? Pneumonia?

Vaping actually dehydrates you. I make sure my water bottle is always with me. I have not been sick once since I started vaping in August, even though most of my co-workers have had colds.


2. My father used a large atomizer to ingest medicine when he had emphysema (He died of cigarette smoking). The cleaning ritual for the equipment was very lengthy and involved. My father said it didn’t help much and rarely used it because of all the hassle. I notice there are absolutely no cleaning/sterilizing routines for E-cigs. Can an E-cig be that germ free with all the liquids and handling it receives?

I use drip tips, which I wash regularly. There are numerous threads on how to clean atomizers, so your perception that there are no cleaning routines is mistaken.


3. It kind of freaks me out that people buy liquids from non-regulated companies and individuals (other hobbyist) and then vaporize and inhale that liquid. You are literally buying drugs off the street and then consuming them in the most intimate way possible. You are risking your ability to breath and your general health to complete strangers out to make a buck. It sounds pretty dangerous. Doesn’t this bother you at all?

No. A pack of cigarettes has a warning label, not an ingredient list. But the vendors I use list their ingredients. Nicotine, PG, VG, flavoring. I'd rather vape four ingredients than smoke who knows what. If you are uncomfortable with that, you can DIY.



4. There is no way to determine exactly how much nicotine, if any, someone put in a cartridge. How do you know it’s not a nicotine analog such as imidacloprid? There could be anything in it…Or, nothing at all. Is there some kind of test we can do on e-liquid to find out nicotine amounts? You can test in the field, why not nicotine?

See answer to #3.



5. I have to agree that vaping seems to have face validity. That is, it sounds like a reasonable argument that it would be safer and healthier than nasty tobacco cigarettes, which I currently smoke. If it is valid, then shouldn’t there be a small but growing doctor recommendation for e-cigs for people who smoke? I have seen a few doctors come out in favor of them. But I wonder if there are larger groups/organizations of doctors that recommend for smokers to switch to vaping? Anyone know of such a group?

While individual doctors are often enthusiastic about their patients vaping, physicians who publicly voice their support risk being vilified by anti-tobacco groups who are backed by Big Tobacco and Big Pharma, the very industries threatened by this innovation.

[FONT="][/FONT]Any replies are appreciated

If you truly want a better alternative, you've found it. If you aren't comfortable with what you've learned about vaping, there are other methods of nicotine delivery that are less harmful than tobacco, such as snus. Other Alternatives to Smoking

 

[Phreaker]

1. I am not inhaling copious amounts of water for long periods of time. I vape about 1ml a day, maybe 2.

2. Not any worse than cleaning ashtrays, cleaning up ashes, etc. It only takes a few minutes every couple of days. I don't know why you say there are "absolutely no cleaning/sterilizing routines for e-cigs" - just search youtube for cleaning 510, you'll likey find 100 videos. I use a combination of IPA and distilled water.

3. A valid concern and one I have as well. You may be interested in Johnson's Creek Smoke Juice. They are FDA registered, list ALL of their ingredients on their website and bottles. They are also the only juice vendor I know that offer a 60 day money back guarantee. Some vendors have had their juices tested and published the reports. There are only a few ingredients in these juices and you can buy most at your local pharmacy.

4. Yes there is, see: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...st-mg-ml-nicotine-follow-up-dvaps-method.html. You may be able to contact Quest or Labcorp and get your juice tesed. Don't buy from a vendor you do not trust, or mix your own e-liquid.

5. The American Association of Public Health Physicians. http://www.aaphp.org/special/joelstobac/2010/20100402AAPHPEcigLegisStatemnt.pdf.
Also, Dr. Elizabeth Whelan called e-cigarettes the 2nd biggest unfounded health scare of 2010. The Top Ten Unfounded Health Scares of 2010 > Publications > ACSH

After doing more research if you feel e-cigs are not safer than cigarettes then they are probably not for you.

 

[tigerlily]

Welcome to ecf. I believe your decision to try vaping is a good one. The concerns you've raised were concerns we all probably had when first considering whether to make the change. This is a good place to find answers to the questions you have.

First of all, your lungs do not become full of water when you vape. From what I understand, the inhaled vapor actually attaches itself to the water in your lungs and is exhaled, thus leading to a possible dehydration. This is why it is recommend you drink plenty of fluids while vaping. The pg in many juices is actually used to kill germs in the air of hospitals.

Second, there are procedures used to clean vaping hardware. I periodically soak my attis in isopropyl alcohol and let them air dry for a day or so. I also use drip tips which can be washed regularly. I carry extra drip tips with me in case I run into people curious enough to want to try vaping. This allows them to check it out without having to worry about sharing germs.

I have found the venders listed on these forums to be very dependable. There is a certain amount of trust that you are placing in your vender not to put anything like draino in your liquids. By using venders listed on a forum like this, I feel there is a certain level of assurance. If any vender were to ever sell us products that were contaminated and made us sick, it would be posted all over these forums so we would know to avoid them. No unscrupulous vender would be able to stay in business if they did that. I actually trust these guys more than I do the cigarette companies, but that's another story.

 

[CES]

Hi Mr. Smith- welcome to ECF

The American Academy of Family Health Physicians and the Royal College of Physicians support vaping.

White paper from the American Association of Public Health Physicians (AAPHP)
http://www.aaphp.org/special/joelstobac/ecigcontext.pdf

Royal College of Physicians. Harm reduction in nicotine addiction: helping people who can’t quit. A report by the Tobacco Advisory Group of the Royal College of Physicians. London: RCP, 2007.
http://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/pubs/contents/e226ee0c-ccef-4dba-b62f-86f046371dfb.pdf

Here are some other links that you can use to find more information.

A very good overview and background information can be found at CASAA | The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-Free Alternatives Association

Vansickel et al, 2010. A clinical laboratory model for evaluating the acute effects of electronic “cigarettes”: nicotine delivery profile and cardiovascular and subjective effects. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev; 19(8) August 2010. doi: 10.1158/1055-9965.
Publications of the AACR

Bullen et al, 2010. Effect of an electronic nicotine delivery device(e cigarette) on desire to smoke and withdrawal, user preferences and nicotine delivery: randomised cross-over trial. Tob Control 2010 19: 98-103. doi: 10.1136/tc.2009.031567

White paper draft http://tobaccoharmreduction.org/wpapers/011v1.pdf

 

[texastumbleweed]

i am a critical care registered nurse and am here to tell you that since i started vaping fulltime almost 7 months ago, i have not had one episode of any upper respiratory illness with no more bouts of bronchitis, and as a matter of fact, i no longer require flonase and claritin daily for sinus problems. and of course my smokers cough is gone. i was intubated for surgery and my anesthetist said that my endotracheal tube was clean-no gunk, no mucus, no tar, and my extubation and emergence from anesthesia was smooth-no coughing or reactive or irritable airway issues. i have absolutely NO concerns regarding vaping. even if there is a "small" chance that inhaling propylene glycol has some adverse effect, it is NOWHERE near the adverse effect of 4500 chemicals and carcinogens in tobacco smoke-carbon monoxide, tar etc.

 

[Sassyonemeis]

This was powerful in her wording!

The Bottom Line: ACSH has long supported harm reduction as an effective and successful strategy to allow regular cigarette smokers to quit the habit for good. ACSH advocates e-cigarettes as a form of harm reduction for currently addicted smokers who have tried and failed to quit, but we do not condone its use by anyone else. The chemical components found in e-cigarettes pose little danger to human health, and should not be considered toxins or carcinogens. It is irresponsible for public health organizations such as the CDC and the AHA to denounce the use of e-cigarettes as an effective smoking cessation method. In doing so, they only continue to promote the use of regular cigarettes for the majority of smokers who failed to quit using traditional approved cessation methods. emphasis added

Also, Dr. Elizabeth Whelan called e-cigarettes the 2nd biggest unfounded health scare of 2010. The Top Ten Unfounded Health Scares of 2010 > Publications > ACSH

After doing more research if you feel e-cigs are not safer than cigarettes then they are probably not for you.

 

[AlmightyGod]

I guess it all comes down to:

Who are you going to believe?

The FDA, Big Tobacco, & Big Pharma....
or
The thousands and thousands of people who have successfully used a PV to quit smoking & get their lives back.

 

[Throat hit]

All your points are worthy ones. Also because your dad had health problems and also used a vape unit you will be rightly cautious. I think you will find many viewpoints within the forum and will be able to draw from the posts here your own conclusions. I will add I wash my kit daily and get quite a dry mouth when I vape. I have had no ill health since starting to use my PV which is a high power modification and produces a lot of vapor. Much more than a standard e-cig. I am young fit and foolish and have vaped from dawn till dusk to see if prolonged use has any good or bad effects. I can hand on heart say that once I found my strength of nicotine 5 to 10 mg per ml of e liquid I have had no problems at all. I regurlarly use 6 ml of juice a day and by all accounts that is a lot and takes a lot of effort to comsume. As you are using tobacco a change to vaping will at least avoid a great many chemicals and let you breathe more easly. Even if it kills you vaping gives a better quality of life while you are alive. Welcome to the forum and I hope you can find out all you need to know. Like I said at the start all your points were good ones and very rational.Kind regards Rob..

 

[silkakc]

Mr Smith,

My main reasons for quitting smoking were emphysema and lung cancer risks. I have emphysema after 30 yrs of smoking and do not want to get lung cancer. Our Ecigs are safe in those aspects because they do not cause cancer or emphysema. And my wheezing and frog in my throat stopped after the first 2 weeks of vaping!!

There might be impurities or germs involved but that's fine with me. It's the much lesser of two evils -in my mind

 

[rlandis67]

Well i too was a 30+ yr smoker, I have now been vapeing for 1 yr and I can't speak for everyone but my own experience. In the yr now without smoking not only do i feel better than I have in a very long time, but i have not had any respitory infections, in fact i have not even had 1 cold. so for me I can tell that vapeing has been a blessing and a godsend.

 

[WomanOfHeart]

I am a cigarette smoker of 30+ years and have found it hard to quit. You know you’re hooked when your digging through the trash at 2am looking for puff-able buts because all the stores around you are closed. LOL.
So, I just bought some 510’s and hope to switch to vaping within a week. But I still have concerns which I thought I’d post here.

My concerns:

1. You are inhaling copious amounts of water into your lungs for long periods of time. I would think this would lead to more respiratory infections, possibly even pneumonia. Bacteria, virus, and parasites love warm moist environments. Even if you can’t get a “bug” from vaping I would think keeping your lungs moist would entice the bugs that are already there (We are surrounded by a sea of biota.) If you are a long time vaper, do you notice more colds/coughs or doctor required lung infections? Bronchitis? Pneumonia?

The VG and PG used in the liquids we vape are hygroscopic meaning that they attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding enviroment (our mouths), which is then expelled when we exhale. So, we are not inhaling copious amounts of water into our lungs. As someone else already mentioned, vaping is dehydrating, so all of us need to make sure we're drinking plenty of water to counteract this. Vaping does not cause bronchitis or pneumonia any more than smoking does (although smoking certainly can cause those diseases to last longer and be harder to treat.) I used to have chronic sinus infections and bronchitis when I smoked, but haven't had a single one since I started vaping. My doctor is thrilled and so am I!

2. My father used a large atomizer to ingest medicine when he had emphysema (He died of cigarette smoking). The cleaning ritual for the equipment was very lengthy and involved. My father said it didn’t help much and rarely used it because of all the hassle. I notice there are absolutely no cleaning/sterilizing routines for E-cigs. Can an E-cig be that germ free with all the liquids and handling it receives?

The machine your father used was a nebulizer which is quite different from the atomizers used in our e-cigs. It's more likely the only thing these two have in common is the use of PG. Yes, there is PG in nebulized medications. It helps deliver the drug to the lungs. There are far less parts to our e-cigs than there were to your father's machine, so the cleaning process is very quick and simple. Nothing is ever really germ free. Think about how many times you touch a door knob or sit on a toilet. Hardly germ free. The same thing applies to e-cigs. We don't live in a bubble and we probably never will.

3. It kind of freaks me out that people buy liquids from non-regulated companies and individuals (other hobbyist) and then vaporize and inhale that liquid. You are literally buying drugs off the street and then consuming them in the most intimate way possible. You are risking your ability to breath and your general health to complete strangers out to make a buck. It sounds pretty dangerous. Doesn’t this bother you at all?

I'm not buying drugs off the street. Vaping is not the same as obtaining illicit substances from some shady person in a dark alley (please forgive the cliche.) I buy from reputable vendors and the nicotine juice I use is carefully monitored for quality and purity (Thank you BoxElder!) My life was in more danger when I smoked and cigarettes are LEGAL! The same goes for the VG and PG I use to mix my juice. The flavorings can be purchased from almost any hobby or craft store because they're also used for candy making and cake decorating. Does that sound like I'm buying dangerous drugs? There really isn't a comparison here.

4. There is no way to determine exactly how much nicotine, if any, someone put in a cartridge. How do you know it’s not a nicotine analog such as imidacloprid? There could be anything in it…Or, nothing at all. Is there some kind of test we can do on e-liquid to find out nicotine amounts? You can test co-cane (sp.) in the field, why not nicotine?

I usually mix my own juice or buy from reputable vendors, so I have no worries about this. Comparing nicotine to illicit street drugs is like comparing apples and oranges.

5. I have to agree that vaping seems to have face validity. That is, it sounds like a reasonable argument that it would be safer and healthier than nasty tobacco cigarettes, which I currently smoke. If it is valid, then shouldn’t there be a small but growing doctor recommendation for e-cigs for people who smoke? I have seen a few doctors come out in favor of them. But I wonder if there are larger groups/organizations of doctors that recommend for smokers to switch to vaping? Anyone know of such a group?

The CASAA is one of many organizations who champion the cause of e-cigs. There are also doctors who have written articles in favor of e-cigs. I think the reason more doctors don't openly show their support is largely due to the rumors and lies being spread about e-cigs by other organizations bent on making us all go back to smoking. My doctor fully supports my choice to vape instead of smoke. I have had NO smoking related illnesses since I made the switch and I think that speaks volumes.

[FONT="][/FONT]Any replies are appreciated

I hope this and all the other replies you've received help alleviate your concerns.

 

[Larry45]

Check out this article...

Propylene glycol in e cigarettes might keep us healthy, says researchers