As well with everyone else on here, the concerns are genuine, but answers can be found to reassure you that vaping is much safer than smoking cigs. Even the report about certain chemicals traces being found, what they do not state is that the amount is exactly what it says trace. Not even to cause even the slightest alarm, there are much more harmful things and more of those harmful amounts in cigs!
My concerns about vaping
- Thread starter MrSmith99
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just to address a couple things you mentioned
as ecigs are not regulated..you are in some way at the mercy of vendors
and I think not all of them are doing the right thing ..but lining the pockets
you will find good and bad,,read in the forums..you will see that people have good and not so good reactions to
different components in ejuice..its sort of a gamble yes..
myself I am a 30 year smoker as you..and I had recently had ahh dont know the word..a test for breathing,sorry my english
and since i have been vaping for not even 4 months my breathing has improved by 10 points..so
you just have to pick what feels right for you and works..its all a bit confusing and scarey because theres so much thats really unknown
in a way we are the experiment..I dont think hard proof can be had for many years to come as with any new product and its affects.
I wish you the best in the choice you make to help you stop smoking.
as ecigs are not regulated..you are in some way at the mercy of vendors
and I think not all of them are doing the right thing ..but lining the pockets
you will find good and bad,,read in the forums..you will see that people have good and not so good reactions to
different components in ejuice..its sort of a gamble yes..
myself I am a 30 year smoker as you..and I had recently had ahh dont know the word..a test for breathing,sorry my english
and since i have been vaping for not even 4 months my breathing has improved by 10 points..so
you just have to pick what feels right for you and works..its all a bit confusing and scarey because theres so much thats really unknown
in a way we are the experiment..I dont think hard proof can be had for many years to come as with any new product and its affects.
I wish you the best in the choice you make to help you stop smoking.
Check this thread I posted. Since you do smoke...it's a no-brainer if you're looking for an alternative to quitting cold-turkey, patches, gums, drugs, etc. I make some valid points to support this ascertion.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/154521-still-fence.html#post2516343
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/154521-still-fence.html#post2516343
ECC:
I still have lots of uncomfortable questions. Just because I decide vaping is safer than cigs doesn't mean I'm a vapid pro vaper. It just means my chest feels tight after a weekend of smoking too many cancer sticks and I feel I should quit. I watched my father die for 2 whole years from cigarette smoking. There is nothing worse than loosing your breath (emphysema, degradation of the lungs) It is literally suffocating to death over a two year span; It's ghastly! I have tried too many times and failed. I think i will succeed with this method. As an added bonus, it sounds kinda fun! And, I do so love gadgets.
Here are some of my other uncomfortable questions. LOL:
1. There seems to be a lot more draw needed for e-cigs. More suction is needed. And the particle density varies after 10 puffs. This could have adverse effects. I would also think this is something that could be fixed with a better e-cig design!
2. Some study, can't remember where, claimed little nicotine was making it into the bloodstream using e-cigs. I find this very hard to believe after thousands of positive testimonials here on ECF. But burning (oxidizing nicotine) in a real cig and aerosolizing nicotine in an e-cig is two different things. It could just be that it takes a little longer for the nicotine levels to rise to that of a real cig when vaping. I haven't seen a valid study on this with large enough samples and good methods. I guess I'll know in a week. (I'm siding with ECF on this one.)
3. I watched a bunch of You-tube videos about e-cigs. Seeing someone take a big hit and then exclaiming how good it was reminded me very much of drug users getting a dose. It was as if they were having a little too much fun. LOL. I have to wonder from a psychological point of view if "behavioral addiction" can really be that intense. I mean, many of them weren't even using nicotine. There was no physical addiction involved. That's kinda freaky. Or, could it be that a really intense aroma/taste can overload receptors and actually cause the brain to emit enough endorphins to get high, even just a little? Fascinating if true! That would be a good study!
My motto is: Question everything!
Off to the garage again! Ha. And goto go to work. Chow!
I still have lots of uncomfortable questions. Just because I decide vaping is safer than cigs doesn't mean I'm a vapid pro vaper. It just means my chest feels tight after a weekend of smoking too many cancer sticks and I feel I should quit. I watched my father die for 2 whole years from cigarette smoking. There is nothing worse than loosing your breath (emphysema, degradation of the lungs) It is literally suffocating to death over a two year span; It's ghastly! I have tried too many times and failed. I think i will succeed with this method. As an added bonus, it sounds kinda fun! And, I do so love gadgets.
Here are some of my other uncomfortable questions. LOL:
1. There seems to be a lot more draw needed for e-cigs. More suction is needed. And the particle density varies after 10 puffs. This could have adverse effects. I would also think this is something that could be fixed with a better e-cig design!
2. Some study, can't remember where, claimed little nicotine was making it into the bloodstream using e-cigs. I find this very hard to believe after thousands of positive testimonials here on ECF. But burning (oxidizing nicotine) in a real cig and aerosolizing nicotine in an e-cig is two different things. It could just be that it takes a little longer for the nicotine levels to rise to that of a real cig when vaping. I haven't seen a valid study on this with large enough samples and good methods. I guess I'll know in a week. (I'm siding with ECF on this one.)
3. I watched a bunch of You-tube videos about e-cigs. Seeing someone take a big hit and then exclaiming how good it was reminded me very much of drug users getting a dose. It was as if they were having a little too much fun. LOL. I have to wonder from a psychological point of view if "behavioral addiction" can really be that intense. I mean, many of them weren't even using nicotine. There was no physical addiction involved. That's kinda freaky. Or, could it be that a really intense aroma/taste can overload receptors and actually cause the brain to emit enough endorphins to get high, even just a little? Fascinating if true! That would be a good study!
My motto is: Question everything!
Off to the garage again! Ha. And goto go to work. Chow!
Hi Mr. Smith
Looks like you're off to a good start. Questioning everything is also a good motto. I thought this was all probably a scam when i purchased my first e-cig, but figured i had very little to lose by trying. Now it's been more than a year since I've had a cig, and i wasn't even planning to quit- just cut back and save some money would have been a win.
If you're referencing the study i think you are in your second point (Eissenberg), the methods in that study were flawed. The author comes to ECF once in while (was recently recruiting subjects for another study). After getting LOTS of feedback, he actually tried an e-cig himself and vaped it 'properly'. after a positive conitine test, he conceded that one could get nicotine from e-cigs. Other research estimates that nicotine absorption is 10-40% of that from cigs.
However, don't rule out the power of the hand-to-mouth behavior. It's possibly partly from the smell/taste receptor activation- but also because there is such a strong association of the hand-to-mouth behavior with the activation of the brain by nicotine and other some of the other 4000 substances in cigs.
just like you spent the time researching the best set up to buy for yourself (you did good), check out the links that were posted in this thread- take time to do that research too- it'll go a long way to helping you answer your questions and formulate the next set of questions.
Again, welcome!
Looks like you're off to a good start. Questioning everything is also a good motto. I thought this was all probably a scam when i purchased my first e-cig, but figured i had very little to lose by trying. Now it's been more than a year since I've had a cig, and i wasn't even planning to quit- just cut back and save some money would have been a win.
If you're referencing the study i think you are in your second point (Eissenberg), the methods in that study were flawed. The author comes to ECF once in while (was recently recruiting subjects for another study). After getting LOTS of feedback, he actually tried an e-cig himself and vaped it 'properly'. after a positive conitine test, he conceded that one could get nicotine from e-cigs. Other research estimates that nicotine absorption is 10-40% of that from cigs.
However, don't rule out the power of the hand-to-mouth behavior. It's possibly partly from the smell/taste receptor activation- but also because there is such a strong association of the hand-to-mouth behavior with the activation of the brain by nicotine and other some of the other 4000 substances in cigs.
just like you spent the time researching the best set up to buy for yourself (you did good), check out the links that were posted in this thread- take time to do that research too- it'll go a long way to helping you answer your questions and formulate the next set of questions.
Again, welcome!
Welcome Mr. Smith. I understand you wanting studies, but, this is still a small industry competing against big pharma. Unfortunately, few people are funding studies. Fortunately, some medical professionals are interested and doing small studies and reviews of known information.
I believe all of these to be false statements, not questions:
1. You are inhaling copious amounts of water into your lungs for long periods of time.
2. I notice there are absolutely no cleaning/sterilizing routines for E-cigs.
3. You are literally buying drugs off the street and then consuming them in the most intimate way possible.
4. There is no way to determine exactly how much nicotine, if any, someone put in a cartridge.
I hope you found my answers helpful and I wish you the best in your vaping/quitting smoking journey.
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OK, then, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and wish you all the luck. I was here in late '09 when we had "anti's" regularly coming on here and "stirring the pot". Your "concerns" post was very similar to many of those.
If you are genuine then I will look for more posts from you asking for specific advice or feedback on products instead of posts like this one.
Good Luck
If you are genuine then I will look for more posts from you asking for specific advice or feedback on products instead of posts like this one.
Good Luck
I think you're overthinking this.
Even been to San Francisco? I lived just outside there for most of my childhood, and walked to school in the fog more mornings than anyone could count. Even if the vapor coming from my e-cig was water vapor (it isn't) and if it was going down into my lungs (it isn't) it wouldn't be any worse than when I walked to school in the fog.
No, but neither is your silverware or water glass when you eat in a restaurant.
Propylene Glycol USP is food grade PG. Vegetable Glycerine USP is food grade VG. The flavors that are used are all food grade flavors. Who says they're not regulated?
And ever bought food at a farmer's market? Now that's not regulated, but I still do it every weekend.
And if you're a diabetic, how do you know that sugar-free meal you just ordered will really be sugar free? Or if you're allergic to nuts, that your strawberry shake won't have traces of the peanut butter shake they mixed up a few minutes ago? You just go with reputable vendors, same as you do with food. I don't buy fruit from random strangers standing on the side of the road with a cardboard sign. I don't buy my juice from them, either.
And this just totally confuses me:
It seems you responded to your own question. You've seen it. My own doctor had never even heard of them, but once I told him, he was thrilled that I'd given up smoking. The company nurse (who gives me an annual physical) had never heard of them, but is thrilled that I have. As they hear about them, see them in use, see their patients finally able to give up cigarettes, they will be fans. But they can't recommend something they've never heard of.
Even been to San Francisco? I lived just outside there for most of my childhood, and walked to school in the fog more mornings than anyone could count. Even if the vapor coming from my e-cig was water vapor (it isn't) and if it was going down into my lungs (it isn't) it wouldn't be any worse than when I walked to school in the fog.
No, but neither is your silverware or water glass when you eat in a restaurant.
Propylene Glycol USP is food grade PG. Vegetable Glycerine USP is food grade VG. The flavors that are used are all food grade flavors. Who says they're not regulated?
And ever bought food at a farmer's market? Now that's not regulated, but I still do it every weekend.
And if you're a diabetic, how do you know that sugar-free meal you just ordered will really be sugar free? Or if you're allergic to nuts, that your strawberry shake won't have traces of the peanut butter shake they mixed up a few minutes ago? You just go with reputable vendors, same as you do with food. I don't buy fruit from random strangers standing on the side of the road with a cardboard sign. I don't buy my juice from them, either.
And this just totally confuses me:
Which leads straight to:
It seems you responded to your own question. You've seen it. My own doctor had never even heard of them, but once I told him, he was thrilled that I'd given up smoking. The company nurse (who gives me an annual physical) had never heard of them, but is thrilled that I have. As they hear about them, see them in use, see their patients finally able to give up cigarettes, they will be fans. But they can't recommend something they've never heard of.
Vaping is different than smoking. If you try to smoke a PV, well... You'll probably hate it. The long draw, the longer inhale is needed by most vapers.
Since your supplies are coming, you'll find out soon enough.
There are folks working on better, at least to them, designs all the time. Not nearly enough to produce a well refined nicotine ingestion device like the cig has become over the centuries, but the advances are coming faster for PV's.
Mr Smith I saw a load of videos and every one looked to me to like they were having a bit to much of a good time to. I have come to realise as a vaper now and not an onlooker that after quitting fags and feeling like crap I am having rather a good time. i just tried a filter in my vape to and after five big pulls the filter was as good a new. If that was a ciggy it would be well brown. Good luck with the new kit.
"TROLL"? Until a few minutes ago, I didn't know what that meant. Learn something new everyday.What I find interesting is IF MrSmith was a troll, how everyone reacted. Upset, suspicious, almost vindictive. I speak in extremes... please don't think I am stereotyping.
Answers to his concerns, references to document and threads. Counter arguments to the propaganda. All of these are appropiate, troll or not. If he is a troll, maybe he can be converted. If he is not, he is more educated.
I for one and not concerned. This forum is apprised of well rounded, openminded people and all have valid experiences that counter malicious agenda.
n topic:Welcome MrSmith, I hope you have found what your looking for and stay a while to contribute.
VAPE ON!
Ok I see so many people have answered your questions point by point in a very informative manner! I will not go through it all but will hit on a couple and give my opinion!
Inhaling the water in the lungs caught my eye! I'm sure you take a shower and inhale a tremendous amount of water vapor! One thing I noticed when I smoked was after a shower it helped clear me out for a while! I never got sick from taking a steamy shower or sitting in a sauna! I'm sure those 2 put out more liquid vapor for me to inhale than my whole day of Vaping as probably 80% of my vape is exhaled!
If the liquid is a concern for you just DIY and make your own! Comparing this to buying drugs off of a street corner is kind of insulting honestly! If you truly feel that way then put your money where your mouth is and DIY!
As for Doctors. My wifes doctor was very happy she had quit smoking with these! He also asked if she would be interested in starting a class through there office to teach others about the products and the proper use of them as in many medical studies nicotine does have health benefits! You could read up on that yourself!
As far as the videos you see with people that look like they enjoy it! I do not do videos but do smile and get alot of satisfaction knowing that I quit smoking cigarettes and that big plume of vapor I just breathed out is not killing me and actually tasted good compared to the Cancer Sticks!
I smoke 30 + years at 50-60 smokes a day! That's a half million cancer sticks in my life! I believe with all my heart this has saved my life! I can walk across walmart without the tight chest and shortness of breath and wondering if I will have a heart attack now where 2 months ago I would avoid it as much as possible! I can walk with my 6 year old until she says "daddy can we take a break" LOL I can shovel the snow in the drive way and much much more that I couldn't do before!
Comparisons to drug users or drug addicts make me laugh! You wanna see an addict...watch someone who is out of cigarettes and money scrounge through an ashtray for butts or borrow cash from people to help support there addiction! When they do get the pack of smokes watch them tear open the pack and the look of relief on there face when they finally get that 1st drag! That's your addict....not us Vapers!
Inhaling the water in the lungs caught my eye! I'm sure you take a shower and inhale a tremendous amount of water vapor! One thing I noticed when I smoked was after a shower it helped clear me out for a while! I never got sick from taking a steamy shower or sitting in a sauna! I'm sure those 2 put out more liquid vapor for me to inhale than my whole day of Vaping as probably 80% of my vape is exhaled!
If the liquid is a concern for you just DIY and make your own! Comparing this to buying drugs off of a street corner is kind of insulting honestly! If you truly feel that way then put your money where your mouth is and DIY!
As for Doctors. My wifes doctor was very happy she had quit smoking with these! He also asked if she would be interested in starting a class through there office to teach others about the products and the proper use of them as in many medical studies nicotine does have health benefits! You could read up on that yourself!
As far as the videos you see with people that look like they enjoy it! I do not do videos but do smile and get alot of satisfaction knowing that I quit smoking cigarettes and that big plume of vapor I just breathed out is not killing me and actually tasted good compared to the Cancer Sticks!
I smoke 30 + years at 50-60 smokes a day! That's a half million cancer sticks in my life! I believe with all my heart this has saved my life! I can walk across walmart without the tight chest and shortness of breath and wondering if I will have a heart attack now where 2 months ago I would avoid it as much as possible! I can walk with my 6 year old until she says "daddy can we take a break" LOL I can shovel the snow in the drive way and much much more that I couldn't do before!
Comparisons to drug users or drug addicts make me laugh! You wanna see an addict...watch someone who is out of cigarettes and money scrounge through an ashtray for butts or borrow cash from people to help support there addiction! When they do get the pack of smokes watch them tear open the pack and the look of relief on there face when they finally get that 1st drag! That's your addict....not us Vapers!
2. I haven't been doing this for very long but I am a bit of a germophobe. I use rubbing alcohol constantly. I use it to keep battery contacts clean and also the outer surface of my cartos which I refill. I have little alcohol swabs in packets that I got from a drugstore....diabetics use them for injections and they're cheap. They are great to carry along, especially if someone else wants to try mine.
3. I only buy American made liquid so far but would consider buying from the UK. Certain American makers are also pretty up-front about what's in their stuff and are more inclined to answer specific questions about it if you contact them.
3. I only buy American made liquid so far but would consider buying from the UK. Certain American makers are also pretty up-front about what's in their stuff and are more inclined to answer specific questions about it if you contact them.
I wanted to take up a pipe. Doing so traditionally would have resulted in my taking up tobacco smoking. Vaping offered me an alternative to have pretty much the same experience without all the dangers and hassles of tobacco. I don't even get nicotine - unless I want it, which I don't.
I am no doctor, so I suggest you speak with yours. I'd wager not many of them are very familiar with e-cigs, however.
Even so, there are plenty of folks here that have been doing this for a couple years and have had no ill effects. I was a medic in a hospital for a few years in the Army, though. I've given my share of breathing treatments, etc.
My answers:
1. It's hardly "copious" amounts of water. A cart has about 1ml of fluid, of that some small percentage is water and of that you exhale a large amount of what you inhaled. Your body will likely absorb the water, if you are healthy.
2. You are correct. You probably should be cleaning your equipment periodically with one of the many methods suggested in this great forum. Alcohol will kill just about anything you are worried about... why not give your atty a soaking once a week? Additionally, there are some studies to suggest PG has it's own anti-microbial properties. I recall reading an article recently. Google it and you should find a few references to studies performed during WWII.
3. It does bother me a little. I tried a couple different companies and settled on the one I use now. *cheers to you www.madvapes.com*. I suggest you find one or two you trust and use them. After a while I thought about it and figured the same argument could be used with anything else I buy. How do I know what's put in my milk or in my cereal? Sure the FDA is there, but there's plenty of incidents of contamination in recent months.
4. I'm sure you could find a company that you could pay to test samples for you. I can generally feel when I am getting too much or not enough. I guess I can chalk that up to so many years of experience with analogs.
5. There is indeed a growing voice in the medical field. The American Association of Public Health Physicians released this statment some time ago: http://www.aaphp.org/special/joelstobac/2010/20100402AAPHPEcigLegisStatemnt.pdf. They estimate the nubmer of lives that could be save each year to be 4-8 million if all smokers switched to e-cigs. Pretty strong words. I'm inclined to believe them. Smoking is, without a doubt, bad for you. This isn't news. The things that make it bad are eliminated in the e-cig. Nothing is as good as quitting, but the rates for quitting successfully are awful. So, given we already smoke, what's the harm in switching to a healthier alternative?
It sounds like you need to do some of your own research. I read about them for a good month before I made my first purchase (a Yeti kit). I was a little disappointed with it and got discouraged. I then went out and bought myself another kit (the Joye Ego) and haven't had but 2 cigs in over a week. I find now they taste awful and will not look back.
Good luck to you with whatever you choose. I think the bottom line is what's the harm in trying? It's taking a route your unsure about v. sticking with analogs, which will eventually kill you. It's an easy decision in my bood.
Even so, there are plenty of folks here that have been doing this for a couple years and have had no ill effects. I was a medic in a hospital for a few years in the Army, though. I've given my share of breathing treatments, etc.
My answers:
1. It's hardly "copious" amounts of water. A cart has about 1ml of fluid, of that some small percentage is water and of that you exhale a large amount of what you inhaled. Your body will likely absorb the water, if you are healthy.
2. You are correct. You probably should be cleaning your equipment periodically with one of the many methods suggested in this great forum. Alcohol will kill just about anything you are worried about... why not give your atty a soaking once a week? Additionally, there are some studies to suggest PG has it's own anti-microbial properties. I recall reading an article recently. Google it and you should find a few references to studies performed during WWII.
3. It does bother me a little. I tried a couple different companies and settled on the one I use now. *cheers to you www.madvapes.com*. I suggest you find one or two you trust and use them. After a while I thought about it and figured the same argument could be used with anything else I buy. How do I know what's put in my milk or in my cereal? Sure the FDA is there, but there's plenty of incidents of contamination in recent months.
4. I'm sure you could find a company that you could pay to test samples for you. I can generally feel when I am getting too much or not enough. I guess I can chalk that up to so many years of experience with analogs.
5. There is indeed a growing voice in the medical field. The American Association of Public Health Physicians released this statment some time ago: http://www.aaphp.org/special/joelstobac/2010/20100402AAPHPEcigLegisStatemnt.pdf. They estimate the nubmer of lives that could be save each year to be 4-8 million if all smokers switched to e-cigs. Pretty strong words. I'm inclined to believe them. Smoking is, without a doubt, bad for you. This isn't news. The things that make it bad are eliminated in the e-cig. Nothing is as good as quitting, but the rates for quitting successfully are awful. So, given we already smoke, what's the harm in switching to a healthier alternative?
It sounds like you need to do some of your own research. I read about them for a good month before I made my first purchase (a Yeti kit). I was a little disappointed with it and got discouraged. I then went out and bought myself another kit (the Joye Ego) and haven't had but 2 cigs in over a week. I find now they taste awful and will not look back.
Good luck to you with whatever you choose. I think the bottom line is what's the harm in trying? It's taking a route your unsure about v. sticking with analogs, which will eventually kill you. It's an easy decision in my bood.
I've seen this a few times. Why someone would pick up a smoking habit as an adult baffles me. If you want to do something cool, why not learn to fly a plane or skydive? After all the heartache I've encountered due to smoking, my biggest wish is I could go back to that day when I was 15 and tried my first cigarette and just tell my friends to &*^%^#@ get lost.
I mean, if you have a nicotine addiction, the risk is much lower for vaping than smoking. However, there is some risk, right? The only way to eliminate the risk is to not start in the first place. Even quitting isn't a sure bet as you've done whatever damage you've done. Sure, your lungs will repair themselves, but I can't believe they'll go back to the way they were after 20 years of abusing them.
Your too late, we already had this out on another thread. It's too late.
Check this link: AllTreatment.com Blog » Blog Archive » E Cigarettes According to Professor Brad Rodu - where Brad Rodu: a professor of medicine states that: "There is absolutely no doubt that inhaling a vapor containing water, nicotine, propylene glycol and flavorings is vastly safer than inhaling the smoke from a burning tobacco product, which contains thousands of toxic agents. The fact that we do not have proof that these products are absolutely safe is not a sufficient reason to ban them."
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