Sorry, yeah. Never bought niachrome after the first few feet of sample... Didn't like the flavor.
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Sorry, yeah. Never bought niachrome after the first few feet of sample... Didn't like the flavor.
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OK, so I'd planned to sit down and come up with an estimate for clapton/fused claptons, and I will. However, it turns out there's a very good approximation, in certain situations: Just pretend you're not wrapping the outer stuff!
Here's the formula for resistors wired in parallel, if you've got two resistors of resistance R1 and R2, the net resistance R satisfies
1/R = 1/R1 + 1/R2, and we can solve for R.
R = (R1 x R2)/(R1 + R2). This net resistance will always be lower than both R1 and R2.
But in a Clapton situation, let's say you're using 0.2 ohms worth of 24ga, and wrapping 3 ohms worth of 32ga around it. The net resistance would be (3 x 0.2)/(3 + 0.2) which is 0.1875. But if you use 0.2 ohms of 24ga and 10 ohms of 32ga, it'd be 0.196 ohms net, basically the 0.2 ohms of 24ga you started with. I would happily go into more detail, but I doubt it's important to anyone
The moral of the story is, as long as R2 is considerably more than R1, your final resistance is basically the lower of the two.
I'll keep working on an accurate estimate for fun (the length of the outer coil is tough), but if anyone could feed me some data on the inside of their Claptons, I'd love it. Gauge, # of coils, and inner diameter of coil (just so I can figure out the 'inner resistance') and the total resistance of the build.
Here's the formula for resistors wired in parallel, if you've got two resistors of resistance R1 and R2, the net resistance R satisfies
1/R = 1/R1 + 1/R2, and we can solve for R.
R = (R1 x R2)/(R1 + R2). This net resistance will always be lower than both R1 and R2.
But in a Clapton situation, let's say you're using 0.2 ohms worth of 24ga, and wrapping 3 ohms worth of 32ga around it. The net resistance would be (3 x 0.2)/(3 + 0.2) which is 0.1875. But if you use 0.2 ohms of 24ga and 10 ohms of 32ga, it'd be 0.196 ohms net, basically the 0.2 ohms of 24ga you started with. I would happily go into more detail, but I doubt it's important to anyone
The moral of the story is, as long as R2 is considerably more than R1, your final resistance is basically the lower of the two.I'll keep working on an accurate estimate for fun (the length of the outer coil is tough), but if anyone could feed me some data on the inside of their Claptons, I'd love it. Gauge, # of coils, and inner diameter of coil (just so I can figure out the 'inner resistance') and the total resistance of the build.
OK, so I'd planned to sit down and come up with an estimate for clapton/fused claptons, and I will. However, it turns out there's a very good approximation, in certain situations: Just pretend you're not wrapping the outer stuff!
Here's the formula for resistors wired in parallel, if you've got two resistors of resistance R1 and R2, the net resistance R satisfies
1/R = 1/R1 + 1/R2, and we can solve for R.
R = (R1 x R2)/(R1 + R2). This net resistance will always be lower than both R1 and R2.
But in a Clapton situation, let's say you're using 0.2 ohms worth of 24ga, and wrapping 3 ohms worth of 32ga around it. The net resistance would be (3 x 0.2)/(3 + 0.2) which is 0.1875. But if you use 0.2 ohms of 24ga and 10 ohms of 32ga, it'd be 0.196 ohms net, basically the 0.2 ohms of 24ga you started with. I would happily go into more detail, but I doubt it's important to anyone
I'll keep working on an accurate estimate for fun (the length of the outer coil is tough), but if anyone could feed me some data on the inside of their Claptons, I'd love it. Gauge, # of coils, and inner diameter of coil (just so I can figure out the 'inner resistance') and the total resistance of the build.
Great info as far as resistance goes, thanks for working out the math/science of it
How about heat flux? I think that is the real battle here as I don't believe it is anything near the same as it would be with just the inner wire.
How come? Too metallic? I'm really curious about this when compared to kanthal. Specifically because I didn't really notice too much difference but I know everyone's different.
You got Einstein blood in your veins dude. You just went god mode in this thread.OK, so I'd planned to sit down and come up with an estimate for clapton/fused claptons, and I will. However, it turns out there's a very good approximation, in certain situations: Just pretend you're not wrapping the outer stuff!
Here's the formula for resistors wired in parallel, if you've got two resistors of resistance R1 and R2, the net resistance R satisfies
1/R = 1/R1 + 1/R2, and we can solve for R.
R = (R1 x R2)/(R1 + R2). This net resistance will always be lower than both R1 and R2.
But in a Clapton situation, let's say you're using 0.2 ohms worth of 24ga, and wrapping 3 ohms worth of 32ga around it. The net resistance would be (3 x 0.2)/(3 + 0.2) which is 0.1875. But if you use 0.2 ohms of 24ga and 10 ohms of 32ga, it'd be 0.196 ohms net, basically the 0.2 ohms of 24ga you started with. I would happily go into more detail, but I doubt it's important to anyone
I'll keep working on an accurate estimate for fun (the length of the outer coil is tough), but if anyone could feed me some data on the inside of their Claptons, I'd love it. Gauge, # of coils, and inner diameter of coil (just so I can figure out the 'inner resistance') and the total resistance of the build.
I would love to give you more precise numbers. Just give me some time.
in the meantime - any way to figure out the ohms for a stapled tiger coil?
Great info as far as resistance goes, thanks for working out the math/science of it
How about heat flux? I think that is the real battle here as I don't believe it is anything near the same as it would be with just the inner wire.
Agreed. Please correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that two wires in parallel inside a fused clapton coil would generate more heat flux as opposed to a single wire. That's solely from observations so far.
So this is the problem...
Let's ignore the outer wrap and focus our attention on the inner wires since the outer wrap won't affect the resistance too much.
What's gonna remain constant is the parallel 24 gauge nichrome (kanthal didn't make too much difference wrap wise, I'll explain later).
Another constant factor is the target resistance of .2 ohms and it has to be dual.
According to SE that build comes up to 11 wraps.
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
That's not gonna fit in the atty. Without changing the inner gauge how do we achieve that resistance?
Let's ignore the outer wrap and focus our attention on the inner wires since the outer wrap won't affect the resistance too much.
What's gonna remain constant is the parallel 24 gauge nichrome (kanthal didn't make too much difference wrap wise, I'll explain later).
Another constant factor is the target resistance of .2 ohms and it has to be dual.
According to SE that build comes up to 11 wraps.
Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators
That's not gonna fit in the atty. Without changing the inner gauge how do we achieve that resistance?
There's simply no way to do it without changing the inner Clapton. Wrapping things around your Clapton core is only going to lower the resistance.
So, you can either go un-fused; use a single strand of inner wire (that should halve the number of wraps needed). Or use a higher gauge, like 26, and either keep it fused or go single strand. Under certain conditions, the inner resistance will be very slightly more than bet resistance (The outer resistance needs to be 19 times more than inner resistance, in order to get a net resistance 5% lower than inner resistance; if your inner wrap was 0.21, then if the outer resistance was 4 ohms, the net resistance would be 0.2)
I didn't even go all out on the math yet
I figured out last night how to model the outer wrap, so I should be able to come up with something in a few hours of work.You'll give me the wire gauges and composition you want to use (I'll assume 24ga N80 two strand inner and 36ga N80 outer?) and the ID you want to wrap around, and I'll tell you the resistance per wrap (or half wrap probably is better), as well as the number of wraps that'll get you closest.
Once I've got everything modeled, I can start spitting out heat flux/surface area, as well as mass/heat capacity. I can do a little programming so I can automate a bit, but there's no way I can present everything as beautifully or interactively as Steam Engine; I'll try and figure out some way to not need me as a middle man, but I don't see it happening.
I'll look into tiger coils, I know nothing about them ATM.
As we seam to have an expert here just a quick question. Does a 2 strand twisted read the same a 2 strand parallel? Asking as i had the wild idea of a claptoned zipper coil lol. I really should learn to walk before i try to run but dreaming up all these help pass the time between refreshing my DHL tracking number.
From my experience, twisted wire comes in closer to single wire then parallel ohms wise
Thinking about it yeah that makes sense i guess and probably depends how tightly twisted also.
I'm not an expert, but something else to consider is you are twisting wires instead of just lining them up in parallel, so you will have more length of wire for the coil with twisted than you would with the same coil (same ID & wraps) of a parallel coil.
There's simply no way to do it without changing the inner Clapton. Wrapping things around your Clapton core is only going to lower the resistance.
So, you can either go un-fused; use a single strand of inner wire (that should halve the number of wraps needed). Or use a higher gauge, like 26, and either keep it fused or go single strand. Under certain conditions, the inner resistance will be very slightly more than bet resistance (The outer resistance needs to be 19 times more than inner resistance, in order to get a net resistance 5% lower than inner resistance; if your inner wrap was 0.21, then if the outer resistance was 4 ohms, the net resistance would be 0.2)
I didn't even go all out on the math yet
You'll give me the wire gauges and composition you want to use (I'll assume 24ga N80 two strand inner and 36ga N80 outer?) and the ID you want to wrap around, and I'll tell you the resistance per wrap (or half wrap probably is better), as well as the number of wraps that'll get you closest.
Once I've got everything modeled, I can start spitting out heat flux/surface area, as well as mass/heat capacity. I can do a little programming so I can automate a bit, but there's no way I can present everything as beautifully or interactively as Steam Engine; I'll try and figure out some way to not need me as a middle man, but I don't see it happening.
I'll look into tiger coils, I know nothing about them ATM.
<-- Programmer - you give me all the work (formulas) and I can slap a calculator together
If you can create an excel doc I can put that into code and post it online somewheres
Yeah things seam to get quite complicated with these advanced builds. I hate to think how long it would take me to try it, twisting 2 sets of wire then claptoning it. Then after my 5 hour build i would probably realize i messed up and have to rip it out lol
lol
I think it took me about an hour or two to get enough decent wire to do 5 coils with 32ga around 26ga. I could have had enough wire to do like 10 coils... but I jacked up a bunch of it so I tossed it.
Having a drill makes all the difference though. Twisting wire together is super quick and easy.
So what if I twisted 24s. That would use up more wire than parallel but how much "less" wraps would've needed?There's simply no way to do it without changing the inner Clapton. Wrapping things around your Clapton core is only going to lower the resistance.
So, you can either go un-fused; use a single strand of inner wire (that should halve the number of wraps needed). Or use a higher gauge, like 26, and either keep it fused or go single strand. Under certain conditions, the inner resistance will be very slightly more than bet resistance (The outer resistance needs to be 19 times more than inner resistance, in order to get a net resistance 5% lower than inner resistance; if your inner wrap was 0.21, then if the outer resistance was 4 ohms, the net resistance would be 0.2)
I didn't even go all out on the math yet
You'll give me the wire gauges and composition you want to use (I'll assume 24ga N80 two strand inner and 36ga N80 outer?) and the ID you want to wrap around, and I'll tell you the resistance per wrap (or half wrap probably is better), as well as the number of wraps that'll get you closest.
Once I've got everything modeled, I can start spitting out heat flux/surface area, as well as mass/heat capacity. I can do a little programming so I can automate a bit, but there's no way I can present everything as beautifully or interactively as Steam Engine; I'll try and figure out some way to not need me as a middle man, but I don't see it happening.
I'll look into tiger coils, I know nothing about them ATM.
We REALLY need a calculator for all these advanced coils. I have a feeling it's up to you and HecticEnergy to make that happen.
Oh and the diameter would be 3mm. Or 2.4mm for more surface but just like you said - there is no way that'll happen with parallel 24.
True. And that's my biggest problem at the moment when wrapping with a drill - I don't know if I should hold it really tight and get very tight wraps or do it looser and then have an ability to slide that wire.
I have a huge difficulty getting it perfect like twisted messes and having it nice and tight. It either overlaps or gets too far apart.
Which is why I'm thinking about attempting twisted 24
God bless you guys if you pull that off for these special coils<-- Programmer - you give me all the work (formulas) and I can slap a calculator together
If you can create an excel doc I can put that into code and post it online somewheres
It won't take that long if you're using a drill. To twist a wire on a drill takes probably like 2 minutes and that includes cutting out the wire from a spool. And maybe 5 minutes to clapton it.
I would NOT recommend doing either one of them by hand like I did at one time
Sorry, I don't remember what the niachrome tasted like... But I remember I didn't like it
Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
I'm working on it, just having some trouble with the outer wrapping still. I will say that twisted is going to be difficult; the path of the outer wrap will be quite odd. It's not too bad for a single wire core and surprisingly easier for a parallel core.
My numbers aren't agreeing with Steam Engine , so I'm kind of at a road block. I'm just trying to figure out the length of a wire wrapped around another wire, and it's simply not agreeing. I don't want to piggyback off SE (by just grabbing results from his calculations), so I'm just trying to figure out where the discrepency is. I probably could take a break from that and see how the parallel-core calculations look, and I might. I'll see if I get that 0.14 ohms that your coil measured, Justadude.
My numbers aren't agreeing with Steam Engine , so I'm kind of at a road block. I'm just trying to figure out the length of a wire wrapped around another wire, and it's simply not agreeing. I don't want to piggyback off SE (by just grabbing results from his calculations), so I'm just trying to figure out where the discrepency is. I probably could take a break from that and see how the parallel-core calculations look, and I might. I'll see if I get that 0.14 ohms that your coil measured, Justadude.
Thanks guys. In the meantime I decided to try this....
Stapled tiger coil. It came out to .173 ohms. 36 nichrome wrapped around 28 ribbon wire and twisted with 24g. I got the same results ohm wise that twisted did. The reason it's only 2 loops is because it's harder to do than fused clapton.
I fired it up and took out the hot spots and it was peeeeeechy
I'm gonna rework this right now and work on doing dual set up with roughly 6 wraps aiming for .2 ohms net.
Stapled tiger coil. It came out to .173 ohms. 36 nichrome wrapped around 28 ribbon wire and twisted with 24g. I got the same results ohm wise that twisted did. The reason it's only 2 loops is because it's harder to do than fused clapton.
I fired it up and took out the hot spots and it was peeeeeechy
I'm gonna rework this right now and work on doing dual set up with roughly 6 wraps aiming for .2 ohms net.
This is the closest to perfect I'm gonna get at the moment
I know I missed one spot but this 36 gauge is so hard to work on.
For the scientists - 5 and a half wraps on a crappy coil came out to .270. 4 and a half on a better coil came out to a solid and stable .241 ohms. 2 and a half crappy coils came out to .173. Seems logical.
I know I missed one spot but this 36 gauge is so hard to work on.
For the scientists - 5 and a half wraps on a crappy coil came out to .270. 4 and a half on a better coil came out to a solid and stable .241 ohms. 2 and a half crappy coils came out to .173. Seems logical.
Took out the hot spots aaaaaaaaaand.......
I LOVE IT
now if I can only SOMEHOW hit that ohmage on dual that would be peachy.
Gonna wick it with some good stuff I have left and vape this little cloud angel
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