My e;cig experience after 5 weeks

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trog100

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May 23, 2008
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Isn't this a contradiction?

Just because its not written down here in the USA, doesn't mean its not legal to use/do. We have Federal/National Rights, and rights granted per the state.

For instance, Motorcycle Lane Sharing in California. Its outlawed in 48 states I believe, and here in California, its allowed. Its allowed, because there is no written law against it, and no written law for it. Because of this, we are allowed to lane share.

it was a (british) argument put across as a counter argument to an american comment saying we need a written constitution of rights..

clever words from a clever person.. in short it means we dont need written permission we have it anyway.. or we have all rights unless they are taken away..

i think the amercian way is safer.. he he

trog
 

Oliver

ECF Founder, formerly SmokeyJoe
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my comments are aimed at people in general joe.. i have a tongue in cheek way of saying things..

i have put forward the "smoker license" dude.. a very valid proposal.. now if u want to act on a sensible suggestion the suggestion is there..

me.. i have better thing to do than fight officialdom for real.. they aint gonna take the lesser harm argument as u well know..

the "smokers license" is a way around this..

a snide comment or a valuable suggestion.. i dont see u making any better ones.. care to debate the idea.. ???

trog

ps.. why do i write as i do.. mainly cos i think the current world is pretty insane and the only way i can tolerate or even talk about it is in semi jest.. in short i cant take any of it seriously any more..

Hey I've no problem with the way you write. And I don't think you are snide - I didn't say that.

I don't think the "smoker license" is workable for reasons that I can't go into now - time issues! - except to say that I don't think smokers would put up with it! Who'd pay? Who'd keep the database? etc etc. Big civil liberties debate going on at the mo, and I can't see a smoker's license being a reality in that context.
 

Nazareth

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Dianne- Ned and I are alright- don't htink that htere's a problem there- there isn't- He gave his views on loongtotem, and my only problem was that his comments tended to be strongly dissuasive in nature toward loong which I felt was a bit unfair toward the product and felt hte comments should be as objective as possible regarding either negative experiences or positive in reference ot the product. The loong has both positive strengths, and negative weaknesses, and keeping both sides in perspective I think gives hte most helpful info on the product- for instance, the issue with hte battery run time is a problem that plagues all mini cigarettes, soem runnign a bit longer, some running a bit less time. Objectively, it shouldn't be a reason to avoid hte product in my opinion as the other strengths overcome that particular weakness- but anyways, again, there is no problem when we keep the reviews and comments as objective as possible, htere iwll certainly be occassion for subjective opinion, and I'll respect that and hope he will do likewise which he has doen in recent comments- I'm pretty sure this is the problems tyou are subtly referrign to in yourr post, but be assured I hold no ill feelings and hope he doesn't either, and that all is well in E-smoking land :)
 

trog100

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they can be considered legal even the liquid i think.. its tobacco thats controled.. but at presnt no one is trying to stop us using the devices..

my license idea by the way gets around the lesser harm factor.. without question its lesser harm to a real smoker.. but.. mother will see it has a greater harm to the rest of the public.. she will see it as another highly addictive product let loose on the innocents.. children included.. she will see it as undermining her current anti smoking propaganda..

the smokers license.. only a current addict gets one.. the medical profession doles em out.. only a real smoker gets to smoke (nicotine) e cigs..

even anti smokers will go for it.. their kids aint gonna become new addicts..

let the docs charge a nice £200 quid fee (the real deterant) they make money the license is self financing and everyone is happy..

all of course said in my usual tongue in cheek way..

trog
 

Nazareth

Ultra Member
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My personal beef is with anyone who tries to push things mainstream prematurely.

Bingo- I share this fear too- The Esmoking minority voice just won't be big enough to counter the money thrown out to snuff the Esmoking movement by the Anti's who are adept at screaming loud, and screaming bloody murder- lawyers love siding with the Anti's because htem oney is there, and hteir voices are heard and preferred for some reason by congress
 

trog100

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by opinion joe is the less mother knows about the thing the better.. i dont trust mother in the slightest.. time is on our side.. in the same way as the old "possession is nine tenths of the law"

at present we can do it.. we are on top.. no action from mother helps us.. mother is a lazy bugger with other pressing things on her mind at the moment..

the longer mother holds back the more chance we have.. slow very discrete growth in the user take up suits us best..

but the "let the world know" brigade plus the current sellers desire to promote their own businesses is a problem..

i would sooner it remain a niche market for quite some time..

mind u.. whatever mother says i will keep e smoking.. i have to.. he he

i hope she aint listening.. but s-d mother.. he he

trog
 

Miss Diane

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Jul 17, 2008
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Dianne- Ned and I are alright- don't htink that htere's a problem there- there isn't- He gave his views on loongtotem, and my only problem was that his comments tended to be strongly dissuasive in nature toward loong which I felt was a bit unfair toward the product and felt hte comments should be as objective as possible regarding either negative experiences or positive in reference ot the product. The loong has both positive strengths, and negative weaknesses, and keeping both sides in perspective I think gives hte most helpful info on the product- for instance, the issue with hte battery run time is a problem that plagues all mini cigarettes, soem runnign a bit longer, some running a bit less time. Objectively, it shouldn't be a reason to avoid hte product in my opinion as the other strengths overcome that particular weakness- but anyways, again, there is no problem when we keep the reviews and comments as objective as possible, htere iwll certainly be occassion for subjective opinion, and I'll respect that and hope he will do likewise which he has doen in recent comments- I'm pretty sure this is the problems tyou are subtly referrign to in yourr post, but be assured I hold no ill feelings and hope he doesn't either, and that all is well in E-smoking land :)

Hi Naz

I know this comment isn't on the right thread but i got fed up of walking in front of the bus so turned to e:cig instead .

we have a bad experience with the loong totem and all comments have been very true.

anyway i'm glad you are having more success with your's but as you know this was a nightmare from the start, i am still arguing with rita over the batteries, if only our batteries would last 3/4 hours i'd be well pleased,

as i have tried to comment today everybodies experience 's is different, and what as individuals we require from our e:cig's is also different.

Each to your own i think needs to be my motto
 

trog100

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May 23, 2008
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four hours when new is just (but only just) acceptable.. in fact allowing for the very low capacity of the battery its pretty good.. it also allows for the inevitable drop off in run time..

two hours when new isnt.. made a million times worse by the ludicrous price of replacement loong totem batteries..

there are some "facts" lurking in all this each to his own never upset another member subjective comment stuff..

given a super high quality battery.. enough power to run these thing can just be sqeezed into a cigarette sized device..

but china is china.. one chinese battery cannot be guaranteed to be the same as another chinese battery.. this is "fact"..

it figures that if the best of the breed is only just up to the job.. an average to bad one isnt.. two hours when new is a bad one..

another "fact".. getting good back up service from china is difficult.. he he

loong totem do not make these batteries.. the cheap chinese battery factory does..

as for the buy local or pay high concept.. i wont give names but i could pay £6 (12 dollars) plus £3 shipping buying local for a certain battery..

or i could pay £8 for eight better quality ones direct from china.. life aint quite so easy as some would like it to me..

trog

ps.. a classic battery has a longer run time and will live longer for one simple reason.. its bigger.. another "fact"..
 
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Oliver

ECF Founder, formerly SmokeyJoe
Admin
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Trog, from your last post I would say we are in general agreement.

I guess my worry is that there is going to be a kneejerk reaction at some point.

It is kind of inevitable really and made more likely if the e-cig gets into the general consciousness before the authorities have made their decision.

In a sense it's lose-lose for e-smokers. Regulation will likely make the product more expensive, but the alternative is that it is outlawed.

However, with regulation we might get some answers to questions of safety etc
 

Oliver

ECF Founder, formerly SmokeyJoe
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Verified Member
As for the license, it just won't happen. It would be far too expensive, it will get the civil liberties crowd going crazy, it will face huge opposition from industry and independent retailers organisations etc. Look at the furore caused by the proposals in the UK to have cigarettes place under the counter.

Plus, license or not, it still doesn't address the legality of nicotine as sold without approval from the medicines authorities. This applies to US and EU.
 

trog100

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May 23, 2008
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yes we are in basic agreement joe.. more expensive wont fly for me.. it might for some..

to be honest i took the view these things will be hit hard by mother one way or another.. hard enough to make them useless for me..

my family has been semi legal Belgium roll up smokers for years.. mainly due to dirty deeds by mother as she attempts to keep her excessive tax revenue.. as members of the european union we are entitled to buy our goods in any member state we choose as long as tax is paid in the source country at source country rate..

mother isnt happy with this.. her agents the customs using tactics verging on out and out piracy wont let us..

mother isnt nice when it suits her not to be.. to quote one famous american..

"its my job to govern.. its your job to make sure i do it properly"..

both the american and uk public gave up doing their job years ago..

interesting how the american constitution got mentioned in this thread..

BBC NEWS | Politics | Call to adopt UK Bill of Rights

the new labour lot will want to add more to the european human rights.. god help us..

the tories want one instead of the european human rights.. which in essence means take away some of our rights while at the same time pretending to give us more.. god help us again.. he he

the bottom line here is the americans lost their constitution the moment their country was declared to be in a "permanent state of war".. we aint far behind..

civil liberties.. hmmm.. not mine and thats for sure.. hidden agendas.. nothing is ever as it seems..

my tactics are simply to fly under mothers radar and hope she has better things to do than chase after me.. it mostly works for me..

the license idea.. if that wont fly nothing will.. i think the turkish comment fits the likely bill..

we have no intention of banning these things we simply want to regulate and make them safe and none addictive.. he he he

but some people will feel the need to fight mother and the medical profession openly on the issue.. all mother cares about is votes.. being as the majority of voters are clueless.. say no more..

mind u i dont mind tilting at the odd windmill.. its a weakness of mine always has been.. don quixote could well have been in my bloodline.. he he

trog
 
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TropicalBob

Vaping Master
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Jan 13, 2008
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Port Charlotte, FL USA
My hope with your license idea, Trog, was that it would show a willingness on the part of e-smokers to recognize that approval of devices and a drug for recreational use will come at a cost in regulation. And those enjoying the recreational drug must bear that cost.

It might at least slow down any stampede to outright ban e-smokes.

And slow it down we must, while we complete the science that makes a case for the safety and efficacy of e-smoking. So far, all studies point to e-smoking being perhaps the best alternative to tobacco smoking. So far, so safe. So far, so healthy. But a day will come when governments want documented proof of what we believe to be true. That proof is not ready. The longer we postpone the day of judgment, the more time we have to make our case a convincing one.

If opposing sides fight over a license proposal for six months, that would be all to our benefit. In the end, no, it won't fly. But we need the buy some time.
 

Nazareth

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 14, 2008
1,277
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USA
Hi Naz

I know this comment isn't on the right thread but i got fed up of walking in front of the bus so turned to e:cig instead .

we have a bad experience with the loong totem and all comments have been very true.

anyway i'm glad you are having more success with your's but as you know this was a nightmare from the start, i am still arguing with rita over the batteries, if only our batteries would last 3/4 hours i'd be well pleased,

as i have tried to comment today everybodies experience 's is different, and what as individuals we require from our e:cig's is also different.

Each to your own i think needs to be my motto

Hey Dianne- Yeah, I can certainly understand your frustration with batteries not workign for 15 minutes time- I think you got a couple of bad ones there as mine are running 3+ hours (so far, this might change in the weeks to come- I just don't htink hte mini batteries are meant ot last that long)- but I see loong has lowered hte prices of hteir batteries to $28 (still far too high for what should be $10 batteries). Also loong's customer service is terrible- Rita- the main customer service rep- plays dumb and pretends notto understand what I'm asking 90% of hte time- but amazingly she has no problem understanding when it comes to ordering something. But just wanted to state- don't give up on the loongtotem just yet- Tropical Bob is looking into a battery system that just might fit & cost $17 with free shipping from China (although it's via airmail which might take a week or more unfortunately)- fingers crossed
 

onoua

Full Member
Aug 7, 2008
11
0
My hope with your license idea, Trog, was that it would show a willingness on the part of e-smokers to recognize that approval of devices and a drug for recreational use will come at a cost in regulation. And those enjoying the recreational drug must bear that cost.

It might at least slow down any stampede to outright ban e-smokes.

And slow it down we must, while we complete the science that makes a case for the safety and efficacy of e-smoking. So far, all studies point to e-smoking being perhaps the best alternative to tobacco smoking. So far, so safe. So far, so healthy. But a day will come when governments want documented proof of what we believe to be true. That proof is not ready. The longer we postpone the day of judgment, the more time we have to make our case a convincing one.

If opposing sides fight over a license proposal for six months, that would be all to our benefit. In the end, no, it won't fly. But we need the buy some time.

Sure we need time. Hope though that someone takes advantage of it. The only efforts I am aware of are by Janty and Dr. Loi. This is not enough. A cooperation by different manufacturers would make more sense.
 

TropicalBob

Vaping Master
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Jan 13, 2008
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Port Charlotte, FL USA
Not only would it be worthy, but it would make sense. Right now, only Ruyan is going to get any approval by any government considering these things. Why? Only Ruyan has funded studies. Those study results won't apply to E-Cig or LoongTotem or GreenCig or Njoy, etc. They will apply to Ruyan devices and cartridges only. Those are the only ones being studied.

Other manufacturers can either pay Ruyan for the patents it owns, or conduct their own studies -- because everything they sell now will become illegal, based on lack of provable benefit and overall safety.
 
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