My propylene glycol purchasing experience.
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Tractor Supply Company PG is, again, USP food grade. Used to administer medicines to food livestock. Tractor Supply Company is a farm and ranch product chain supplying the people who grow and raise your food.
Wow.... The pharmacy I deal with here knows exactly what I use pg and vg for. They ask me about ecigs all the time too. They even stock it for me now so I don't have to wait for them to bring it in..... Definitely need to find a good compounding pharmacy to help you.
Sheesh, ever tried buying crystalline menthol at a pharmacy?
Might as well walked in and said' Hey, I need a pocket nuke for me unca Osama, and can you giftwrap it?'
Menas that this supposed highly pharmacists don't have frigging clue. Just good enough to peddle pills and ointments made by BP.
There are indeed lots of base materials that can be used for nefarious purposes, if you know the how-to, and pharmacists aren't selling these to individuals which is just fine. But PG and VG??...
Might as well walked in and said' Hey, I need a pocket nuke for me unca Osama, and can you giftwrap it?'
Menas that this supposed highly pharmacists don't have frigging clue. Just good enough to peddle pills and ointments made by BP.
There are indeed lots of base materials that can be used for nefarious purposes, if you know the how-to, and pharmacists aren't selling these to individuals which is just fine. But PG and VG??...
"Crystalline Menthol?" They are thinking you said Crystal M e t h. "Oh yeah sure we have it! We just need your name and phone number to order it in. It will be here tomorrow."
You come home and the cops are already there, lol.
My spot for PG:
http://www.domvet.com/horse-cattle/pet_detail.cfm?petid=3&id=17460
For VG:
Vegetable Glycerin - 1000 mL
http://www.domvet.com/horse-cattle/pet_detail.cfm?petid=3&id=17460
For VG:
Vegetable Glycerin - 1000 mL
Guys, I know a lot of people choose to purchase their PG/VG from the local tractor/feed supply store but it needs to be noted that food grade PG/VG is not approved for inhalation. Only USP Pharma grade is approved for inhalation. It is possible to purchase USP grade from your tractor supply store but this may or may not be USP Pharma grade. Please take a look at the link below for those who might not know the difference. Like I said to each their own, just make sure you know the facts first.
USP Food grade is NOT USP Pharma grade.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/277267-purity-pg-vg-peg-short-version.html
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That was very informative Thomasis......Thank you for the link....
USP Labels For Dummies
My use of the word "food" was an unfortunate misnomer. Regardless the "short version" is highly inaccurate. Getting technical, and going straight to the US Pharmacopeia Convention as a source - they are the "USP" in USP:
The difference between Feed, Food and Pharma grade chemicals is one of purity. Pharma grade indicates 97.5% or greater purity, Food grade would be 90% or greater, and Feed grade would be anything below 90%. So far this is simple.
However, in order for a base material, and they specify that as different from any finished product mixture designed and ready for human consumption, to be labeled as "USP" it has to be 97.5% pure or better, and thus is automatically of a "pharma" grade. "Pharma" in the grade also has nothing to do with oral consumption versus inhalation. Grade of chemical is based solely on purity. Use of said base chemical is wholly dependent on manufacturer MSDS, SDS and PDS specifications, and unsurprisingly there are no sources where the public can purchase PG or VG with a government approved MSDS/SDS/PDS set claiming it is safe to inhale.
Wal-Mart sells Humco USP glycerin as a "skin protectant. It is one single "base" material. It is not an ingredient in any form of finished product meant for human consumption, being marketed for topical use only. It is also of 99.5% purity and is thus pharma grade.
Same story for Tractor Supply Company USP PG, which while marketed for use as a base used in injection or oral medicine mixtures for livestock is of the purity that allows it to be marketed as a USP labeled Propylene Glycol.
In order to carry a USP label on PG at all - straight from the USP itself - it "must be not less than 99.5 percent" pure, as indicated in the very first sentence on the USP Propylene Glycol Revision Bulletin found on the USP web site.
http://www.usp.org/sites/default/files/usp_pdf/EN/USPNF/propyleneGlycol.pdf
Base materials of less than 97.5% purity and at least 90% pure may carry the FCC (Food Chemical Codex) label, for food grade, but not the USP label, which is pharma grade. Finished product mixtures for human consumption can be labeled "USP-verified" with specific types of third party testing, but only finished product mixtures, and only if the base material used met the USP purity standard (pharma) of 97.5% or greater purity.
To quote Neil E. Levin, CCN, DANLA, professional member of the International & American Associations of Clinical Nutritionists, member of the Scientific Council of the national Clinical Nutrition Certification Board and seat on the board of directors of the Mid-American Health Organization (MAHO), the Midwest regional affiliate of the National Products Association (NPA) (or someone who knows a hell of a lot more about this than any person on the E-cig forum):
So summing up:
If it is a raw/base material and it has a "USP" label on it, then it is "pharmaceutical grade" and at least 97.5% pure.
If it is PG with a "USP" label it is not only pharma grade but is at least 99.5% pure.
If it does not have USP on it, but rather has the FCC label, it is food grade and at least 90% pure. It is possible for an FCC labeled product to be just as pure as USP, but lacking the USP documentation it can not be labeled as such.
If it has "USP-verified" on the label, then it is a mixture of ingredients which had a base that may have once been of USP grade purity before being mixed with other stuff but is now no longer USP/pharma grade.
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Thank you Thomasis and BDUAres for posting this. I just hope no new DIYers go to the tractor store or elsewhere and buy PG for aircraft deicing in drums and barrels thinking it is cheaper in the long run. (You just know somewhere some dumba$$ is going to do this). I've deiced airplanes in my past career. I've probably inhaled more Propylene Glycol than I care to think of. (We didn't wear PPE in those days....just get up in the bucket and spray it on!) I'm sure that wasn't the USP grade!!!!
Haha... the things ECF chooses to censor and to leave uncensored is comical.
That's the stuff I use. It's the "USP" that we are more concerned with. As long as it says that, we're good.
Am I the only one who just grabs Life brand USP stuff off the shelf at Shopper's Drug Mart? They've got 500ml VG/PG USP for $6, 4L distilled water for $1.50, and 500ml 99.9% alcohol for $4.50 - saves me from having to go anywhere else for mixing and cleaning supplies.
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Pharmacies in TN are getting so bad due to the nefarious acts of others that as of late, they are now locking down Pseudoephedrine to the max (i.e. the stuff in Sudafed). If *they* don't think you need it, cold or not, they won't sell it to you. So this basically allows pharm techs the ability to discriminate based on request.
Never mind asking about PG/VG, because they need your name, address, phone number and date of birth accompanied by a valid state ID. I was in there a few months back asking for syringes (i.e. w/o needles) and they had me fill out what looked like a questionnaire and sign for them like a prescription.
I get it, they don't want people buying pills and needles and doing god knows what with them, but I don't see a ton of druggies walking in asking for their fix of PG/VG and if they can get it premixed.
For those vary reasons, I try my best not to go to any pharmacy as I don't feel like being treated like a criminal. I refuse pain pills at the doc when I do go, so that lessens my need to visit them in the first place. I've had better experiences with Military Doctors and Techs than I do civilian.
Never mind asking about PG/VG, because they need your name, address, phone number and date of birth accompanied by a valid state ID. I was in there a few months back asking for syringes (i.e. w/o needles) and they had me fill out what looked like a questionnaire and sign for them like a prescription.
I get it, they don't want people buying pills and needles and doing god knows what with them, but I don't see a ton of druggies walking in asking for their fix of PG/VG and if they can get it premixed.
For those vary reasons, I try my best not to go to any pharmacy as I don't feel like being treated like a criminal. I refuse pain pills at the doc when I do go, so that lessens my need to visit them in the first place. I've had better experiences with Military Doctors and Techs than I do civilian.
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