My Public Vaping Philosophy

[jameth]

You seem to think that if we all hide, the people who want to pass those laws (primarily people associated with big phama, and people who want the tax money from cigarettes) will just quit passing those laws.

And your solution is "Lets treat vaping like smoking so they won't pass laws to make smoking laws apply to vaping".

Once again, not things I even remotely said, nor any kind of solution I provided.

I am not trying to attack you or your ideas, this is an open discourse, I think I am bringing good discussion to the topic without attacking contributors, could you maybe do the same?

 

[jameth]

In a hypothetical world Baldr, what would you prefer; that the act of "vaporizing a solution with the intent to inhale it" made illegal, or that it was treated the same as the act of "igniting a substance with the intent to inhale it"?

This is purely hypothetical, just want to know, in that situation, what would be your preference?

 

[xyanide]

This is a tough subject isn't it? I always had the feeling most people would at least frown upon public vaping, but some of you guys do bring good arguments as to why one shouldn't shy away from public vaping. I'm going to reconsider my public vaping habits.

 

[jameth]

The bottom line is the whole point of a vape is to emulate smoking, sure it ISN'T smoking, but we sure are doing everything we can to make the end result as much like smoking as possible.

If we weren't trying to emulate smoking, we wouldn't be using carriers that produce visible vapor.

How can you sit there and say that even though you are specifically trying to produce something analogous to smoke, and emulate the act of smoking, but you don't want anyone to treat you as if it is smoke, when in reality there is almost no way to tell the difference visually?


Go bring a fake gun into a a public place, and fight for your rights to wave it around, just because its not actually a REAL gun...

 

[rico942]

I really have given this a lot of thought, and decided that stealth vaping is best for me. But I do admire those who publicly advocate unrestricted vaping, and make the effort to enlighten the non-vaping public. I just don't have the patience for that, though I will answer any polite and intelligent question as best I can ...

I'm also aware of the fact that smoking has been villified in US society for longer than the entire lifetime of those who are most likely to object violently to anything that resembles it, they simply cannot remember a time when this was not so. Add to that the contemporary acceptance of verbally assualting anyone whose behavior gives "offense", and you have vapers being confronted and told that they are somehow "violating the rights" of those who do not ...

I can think of few public behaviors that can be attacked with such impunity as smoking (or the perception of it), and most of them involve a commonly accepted taboo, like drunk driving or drug abuse, with proven consequences. Otherwise the objection could be ignored and dismissed ...

Got the "exploding battery/anti-freeze/nicotine causes cancer/kids will get addicted" admonishment just yesterday from a senior physicist here at work. This guy of course could not be corrected by someone with only an engineering degree ...

I sighed and moved on ...

In the future, hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst ...

 

[Baldr]

Once again, not things I even remotely said, nor any kind of solution I provided.

I am not trying to attack you or your ideas, this is an open discourse, I think I am bringing good discussion to the topic without attacking contributors, could you maybe do the same?

It looks to me like you are saying things, then when I respond to them, you start complaining that you didn't say what you just got through saying. I'll just let you make up your own conversation, since you appear to be trolling.

 

[jameth]

It looks to me like you are saying things, then when I respond to them, you start complaining that you didn't say what you just got through saying. I'll just let you make up your own conversation, since you appear to be trolling.

Right...

I can see you are a great person to have out there championing vaping to the general public, you clearly have a good head on your shoulders and are able to debate topics fairly without introducing assumptions, putting words into peoples mouths, and then insulting them based on that, tell me again where I said "people vape to be cool"?

Thanks for helping....

I look forward to hearing other peoples feedback and thoughts on the topic.

 

[Baldr]

Right...

I can see you are a great person to have out there championing vaping to the general public, you clearly have a good head on your shoulders and are able to debate topics fairly without introducing assumptions, putting words into peoples mouths, and then insulting them based on that, tell me again where I said "people vape to be cool"?

Thanks for helping....

I look forward to hearing other peoples feedback and thoughts on the topic.

You wrote : "I am all for anyones right to vape, but there is a growing crowd of "no-nic cloud blowers" that never smoked, and don't NEED or use nicotine, they just want to blow huge clouds inside COSTCO for absolutely no reason. "

Your implication is that that have "no reason" to vape, and their only reason to do it is because they think it's cool.

Your pretending that you didn't imply it is what makes you a troll.

 

[jameth]

You wrote : "I am all for anyones right to vape, but there is a growing crowd of "no-nic cloud blowers" that never smoked, and don't NEED or use nicotine, they just want to blow huge clouds inside COSTCO for absolutely no reason. "

Your implication is that that have "no reason" to vape, and their only reason to do it is because they think it's cool.

Your pretending that you didn't imply it is what makes you a troll.

Once again you are imparting your own garbage into my words.

Re read what I typed, and you quoted, and maybe this time you will read it right, I said they have NO REASON TO BLOW CLOUDS INSIDE COSTCO.

I did not imply that they have "no reason to vape", and your even putting another assumption on there, that it has anything to do with whats cool?!

I even stated in that SAME sentence, that it is for NO reason, how is that extrapolated to "I said the reason is they want to be cool"?

I am done reading things for you, next time you want to attack someone, try to base it in reality, I have been more then fair in my previous responses to you....

 

[celticluvr]

I think, IMHO, that people should vape where its vape-friendly and stealth vape or don't vape at all in places you can't. Ask the owner/manger first, then comply to their wishes OR if you can get by with it, stealth it. But just don't whine and complain when you aren't allowed to. We vapers should all stick together even if we have different opinions about how we should go around vaping.

Vape on folks

 

[TheLizinator]

I sometimes vape cinnamon danish swirl and my daughter says it smells like a yummy candle. Nobody else has ever commented on the smell. I am not big on flavors, though, and I'm just as happy using unflavored liquid. I have a WTA Djarum black clove on the way and look forward to trying it out. At home it is sometimes satisfying to create great clouds of vapor (old habits die hard), but I'm more into getting the satisfaction of my nicotine fix.

 

[DaveP]

If your city bans sugar laced soft drinks, should they ban the sugar free alternatives also, just because the cup looks like the cup that contained the sugary version? That doesn't make sense any more than banning ecigs because they resemble real cigarettes.

My Provari or my Sigelei Zmax don't resemble a paper tube with a filter on it, so there's no confusion. I occasionally get questions from people in public and have yet to have anyone lambast me for vaping. They just want to know if it helped me quit tobacco and they have a friend of a relative who they want to convert. It's all good.

It's my close friends and relatives that I had to educate. They wanted to know if I knew that thing had antifreeze and carcinogens in it. Boy, did they get the Ecig 101 class.

We need more outspoken news people like Greg Gutfeld from Fox News. Check out the video in the article.
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/12/20/greg-gutfeld-reacts-nyc-electronic-cigarettes-ban

 

[Revelene]

I vape wherever as long as the situation is right. I know that what I blow out is not harmful to other's and know that you get worse second hand things from perfume/cologne. I vape at work with my crazy sub ohm builds/micro coil builds/etc and blow big clouds (of course if someone is talking to me in my office I tone it down a bit or stop). The biggest thing is just to be smart about it and be courteous. I have yet to be kicked out or asked to stop vaping from anywhere. I have people ask me what I have and what flavor I'm vaping. Heck, at work I have a co-worker that keeps asking me to vape certain flavors as she likes the way they smell... almost like I'm her air freshener haha. When I'm in a meeting I don't vape (nor do I eat or chew gum) as it is not the time or place. IMO, just be smart about where and when you do vape... we are in a battle right now and need to show that this is NOTHING like smoking and should not be treated as such.

 

[wv2win]

This very philosophy is why all the vaping legislation is going on all over the country right now. Enjoy it while you can. It will not last and your philosophy will have just the opposite effect of what you want. JMHO

This statement is so incorrect that it is laughable. Bans and restrictions on vaping have nothing to do with people vaping openly in public. Instead, they are initiated by groups like ASH, ALA, ACS and the AHA, funded by Big Pharm, who influence local and state politicians with false and misleading reports that vaping is the same as smoking or worse.

By vaping openly but respectfully we have an opportunity to educate the uninformed on what vaping is and is not, especially that it is not harmful to others. By pretending that vaping is the same as smoking, by self-regulating to smoking sections, we only support the misinformation and lies perpetrated by those who are actually influencing politicians to initiate bans. The key is being respectful, use common sense and being well educated ourselves.

 

[MD_Boater]

We live in a (used to be, and still mostly is) a free country. If something is NOT illegal, have at it. I vape everywhere. I really don't care since what I am doing is not illegal. If I try to hide it, it looks like I am doing something illegal.

We all know that vaping is safer than smoking. As of right now, there is zero proof that it is harmful. People have been vaping since 2006. IF there were ANY negative impacts from either 1st hand or 2nd hand vapor at all, those who have been looking to make it illegal would have jumped all over it. They have been looking (hard), and they have found nothing. That is why we keep hearing about a flawed study from years ago that showed "some" problems with pre-loaded cartridges.

I went into a bar with a vaping buddy last weekend. During our first round of beers, we semi-stealth vaped by just exhaling down towards our laps. Nobody noticed. I set my PV on the bar, and eventually the bartender saw it. At that point, I held it up and asked if they minded. If he had said yes, I would have gone out to the patio for a few, and vaped. As it was, they were cool with it. I am not assuming that I have to give up my personal liberties for fear that it will give the wrong impression. Chances are that Maryland will follow NYC's lead and ban indoor vaping at some point, with or without scientific evidence. Since I understand that this is yet another personal freedom that I will likely have to surrender in the near future, I am going to "get while the gettin' is good". Sooner or later, I wil lose that freedom to placate someone who feels like I should not be allowed to "normalize" smoking. Screw that. Let them observe me vaping and get ...... off. I am going to get ...... when they ban it, and they won't give it a second thought. I won't just roll over and volunatrily give up my freesom because it might give people an idea to ban it. That is why the government gets away with easily taking our freedoms away so haphazardly and with such ease.

This roll over and play dead mentallity is what dooms us to failure before we even start.

Vape everywhere, and answer questions. We need to educate non vapers that it is possible for us to co-exist without either side giving up their personal liberties, or their health. Whenever I encounter someone who is pre-conditioned to think that vaping is bad, I ask them if they know a loved one or close friend that smokes. Nearly all of them do. I tell them, "If you truly care about them, ask them to try this. It will make them WALK away from smoking. You may help save, or extend their life.". The conversation generally turns much more cordial after that. Another tactic that is very effective is to use their own argument against them. I talk about how big tobacco, and big pharma (two entities despised by folks preconditioned to be against smoking and vaping) are losing money, and funding the efforts to ban vaping in order to maintain their profits. I love doing this, as you can immediately see the inner conflict that it causes in their heads. Veins start popping.

So yeah... I will blow whatever size cloud, whenever and wherever I want. It ain't illegal until it is...

 

[Revelene]

We live in a (used to be, and still mostly is) a free country. If something is NOT illegal, have at it. I vape everywhere. I really don't care since what I am doing is not illegal. If I try to hide it, it looks like I am doing something illegal.

We all know that vaping is safer than smoking. As of right now, there is zero proof that it is harmful. People have been vaping since 2006. IF there were ANY negative impacts from either 1st hand or 2nd hand vapor at all, those who have been looking to make it illegal would have jumped all over it. They have been looking (hard), and they have found nothing. That is why we keep hearing about a flawed study from years ago that showed "some" problems with pre-loaded cartridges.

I went into a bar with a vaping buddy last weekend. During our first round of beers, we semi-stealth vaped by just exhaling down towards our laps. Nobody noticed. I set my PV on the bar, and eventually the bartender saw it. At that point, I held it up and asked if they minded. If he had said yes, I would have gone out to the patio for a few, and vaped. As it was, they were cool with it. I am not assuming that I have to give up my personal liberties for fear that it will give the wrong impression. Chances are that Maryland will follow NYC's lead and ban indoor vaping at some point, with or without scientific evidence. Since I understand that this is yet another personal freedom that I will likely have to surrender in the near future, I am going to "get while the gettin' is good". Sooner or later, I wil lose that freedom to placate someone who feels like I should not be allowed to "normalize" smoking. Screw that. Let them observe me vaping and get ...... off. I am going to get ...... when they ban it, and they won't give it a second thought. I won't just roll over and volunatrily give up my freesom because it might give people an idea to ban it. That is why the government gets away with easily taking our freedoms away so haphazardly and with such ease.

This roll over and play dead mentallity is what dooms us to failure before we even start.

Vape everywhere, and answer questions. We need to educate non vapers that it is possible for us to co-exist without either side giving up their personal liberties, or their health. Whenever I encounter someone who is pre-conditioned to think that vaping is bad, I ask them if they know a loved one or close friend that smokes. Nearly all of them do. I tell them, "If you truly care about them, ask them to try this. It will make them WALK away from smoking. You may help save, or extend their life.". The conversation generally turns much more cordial after that. Another tactic that is very effective is to use their own argument against them. I talk about how big tobacco, and big pharma (two entities despised by folks preconditioned to be against smoking and vaping) are losing money, and funding the efforts to ban vaping in order to maintain their profits. I love doing this, as you can immediately see the inner conflict that it causes in their heads. Veins start popping.

So yeah... I will blow whatever size cloud, whenever and wherever I want. It ain't illegal until it is...

Spoken like a real American.

 

[MD_Boater]

I agree with you that it is not smoking, but unfortunatly the people we are trying to influence don't feel that way, and we will have better luck getting people on our side if we are tactful in our approach of spreading the knowledge.

I think you live in fantasy land. People who support vaping bans do not need anything other than their own preconceived notions to continue supporting them. Their minds are already made up. nothing we do will change that. It is the people without preconceived notions that we need to convince. It is they that need the experience of being near vapors so when a ban comes up, they can think to themselves, "I was standing near a guy doing this in Walmart once, and it had a lovely vanilla odor, like a good smelling candle. Why do we need to stop that?".

We will have better luck getting people on our side after we all do as the OP did. Vape at will and explain the lies that are being told. Positive stories and experiences in first person have a much bigger impact than second hand accounts from politicians and "news" organizations. The way to win our war is to have every person that is against it see one of their friends or loved ones stop smoking by switching to vaping. I challenge people to ask their friends and relatives that smoke to try it and then observe how that person's life has improved.

 

[DaveP]

I think the more vaping is publicized, especially the success stories about how people were able to transition from cigarettes to ecigs, the better off we are. Each time legislation occurs that bans it, the tougher it will be to reverse. Vaping bans inside stores may be something we will just have to deal with but it's not because there's a health issue to us or others. It's just because some people don't like anything that resembles smoking. It reminds them of what harmed the health of a loved one or a friend.

There may be some compromise involved, but I don't see vaping being criminalized, just controlled. There will be those who vape to quit and there will be those who vape to replace the act of smoking. I don't see it going away.

If you can carry a potentially messy soft drink (if it's spilled) in a store , you should be able to vape. When I leave a theater or a movie, there's popcorn, candy wrappers, and spilled drinks on the floor. There's no trace of my vaping.

 

[Baldr]

I think, IMHO, that people should vape where its vape-friendly and stealth vape or don't vape at all in places you can't. Ask the owner/manger first, then comply to their wishes OR if you can get by with it, stealth it. But just don't whine and complain when you aren't allowed to. We vapers should all stick together even if we have different opinions about how we should go around vaping.

Vape on folks

I think the question comes up here, where you say " or don't vape at all in places you can't."

To me, "places I can't" are places where I've been asked not to, or which have a sign on the door saying no vaping or similar, or which have a known public policy against vaping. I'm completely fine with a business saying "No vaping here", and I will comply.

But I also assume that if I'm now aware of any policy against vaping, that I *can* vape there. I think that's the difference, is that you assume "Unless they have a sign saying "Vape all you want", then you aren't allowed to vape there." I assume that if they don't want me vaping, they will find a way to inform me. I will comply with a No Vaping sign. I don't, however, assume that everyplace has a no vaping policy until informed otherwise.

 

[Jman8]

In a hypothetical world Baldr, what would you prefer; that the act of "vaporizing a solution with the intent to inhale it" made illegal, or that it was treated the same as the act of "igniting a substance with the intent to inhale it"?

This is purely hypothetical, just want to know, in that situation, what would be your preference?

The latter. That it be treated the same option. What do I win for answering this hypothetical question? Do I win a chance to educate the hypothetically ignorant people in the hypothetical world?