this what you mean i think.(edited)
when you place your thumb over the nozzle you are restricting (resistance) the water(current)
being pushed through the water mains(battery) to the hose by pressure(voltage).
regards
mike
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My thoughts about sub-ohm and latest VV/VW devices...
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this what you mean i think.(edited)
when you place your thumb over the nozzle you are restricting (resistance) the water(current)
being pushed through the water mains(battery) to the hose by pressure(voltage).
regards
mike
this seems to make seance.
however you are talking about steam not vapor.
i don't care to recall how many blisters i have gotten removing the lid
from the roaster.
correct me if i a wrong but isn't vapor a state some where between ambient temp. and steam
depending on how much moisture is present?
as i understand it vapor is increased at a quasi-linear rate as opposed the heat applied.
plotted on a graph it looks like s slightly bowed line at a ninety five degree angle.
heat applied and amount of vapor being produced the vertical and horizontal axis.
at a certain point you no longer have vapor you have steam at 212 degrees which
would leave a lot of vapors in the hurt box.
regards
mike
The lid on a roaster can still reach an excess of 200 degrees.... so blisters wouldn't really be a surprise would it?
Steam is literally just defined as the vapor that water turns into. Nothing really separates vapor from steam other than steam is water. Clouds are steam... humidity is steam...
As for the rest of it, to be frank my general physics knowledge doesn't run deep enough to comment... however vapor doesn't "turn into steam" once it hits 212 degrees... If that's what you're implying?
To sum it up... ANY liquid turning into a gaseous state is "vapor". When water turns to a gaseous state, that vapor is called "steam".
No, not at all... Forget about everything before the nozzle... The example isn't 1:1, rather I'm just demonstrating the concept that you can "raise the pressure" but in doing so you "reduce your flow". If I put a cap on that nozzle with just a pinhole in it, I'm going to get an intense amount of water pressure, but if I try to fill a bucket it's going to take forever.... On the other hand, if I remove that cap, I'm going to lose all that pressure, but the bucket will fill up much more quickly.
rusirius, have you seen the DNA40 chip? It monitors temperature of the coil when 100% nickel wire is used for the coil(s) as well as controlling power delivered to the coil. Very interesting concept.
no i believe steam is water vapor heated to boiling temperature.
steam is invisible as its a gas
vapor see: Vapor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
steam see:Steam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
note most liquids give off vapor. a rise in the ambient temperature
increases vapor until you get steam.
what we see is a mixture of PG and or VG which is thicker than water so more visible
all be it there is water in there also.
water vapor may also be visible at ambient temperature,ie.,fog.
if e-cigs heated the juice to boiling we would all have burnt lips
as the PG and or VG would being thicker would retain more heat
before condensing. as an aside there are known cases of modders
burning there lips and or setting their wicks on fire.
i am not saying there is no steam.if you let it get hot enough long
enough it will turn to steam.the coils are not just heating the
liquid they are in direct contact with.the coil is also heating the
liquid in the wick which escapes as vapor long before it gets
to steam.
regards
mike
addendum: i do agree with your original post.
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I was looking at that not too long ago... It is a very interesting concept, but I'm just not entirely convinced it's anything to get too excited about... Let me explain my thoughts and opinions on it...
First, yes, to get the temp sensing abilities you must use the pure nickel wire... That's typically sold as "non-resistance" wire because it has VERY low resistance at room temperature... I don't remember off hand, but I want to say it's something like .03 ohm per foot. Resistance goes up as temperature increases, and I'm guessing that maybe N200 has a very linear or stable increase as that temperature rises. Meaning they can "measure" the resistance when it's at room temp, and then as it heats up the change in resistance lets them calculate the approximate temp of the coil.
But I can only guess that this must require a LOT of power to accomplish... I mean, this same wire has been used for NR-R-NR coils for ages now... For just that reason...Unless they have devised some way to facilitate this... I'm not too sure... but anyway, that's not why I'm a little sketchy about these...
I basically see this as a "big band aid". I remember seeing a post on another forum somewhere where someone said, "Hey, I think this is awesome... I can only get about 10 watts on my attys right now without getting a burnt taste... so if this lets me put 40 watts on them without burning then it'll be great..."
So imagine this guy for a moment... He buys this device... slaps his atty that can only handle 10 watts on it and cranks it to 40 watts.... he vapes on it and surprise... no burnt taste! Wow! I'm vaping at 40 watts and no burning!!! I love this thing....
But in reality he's not vaping at 40 watts.... he's only vaping at 10 or less watts.... Because his setup can only handle 10 watts anyway... rather it be because of airflow, wick, etc.... Putting it on this device isn't going to "fix" that... it's only going to "mask" it... Because it might TRY to fire at the 40 watts he's set, but as soon as the temp on the coil starts to rise (meaning the wick is getting dry or there isn't enough airflow to carry away the heat) it's going to stop....
You know what I mean? To me it's not some magical device that's going to let people vape at higher wattages... it's just a band aid to stop people who have bad builds or poor airflow from applying too much power for their setup...
To me.... If I make a build and I can't get more than 10 watts on it, then I know I have a problem... I know I either have an issue with my wick or airflow... I'd rather get a burnt taste and KNOW I have a problem so I can then address it and fix it rather than have a device that covers it up and let's me "think" I'm achieving a power level that I'm not.
I guess to me it goes back to my earlier posts... The coil is ONLY going to reach a certain temperature (the boiling point of the particular juice you are running) PROVIDED you can wick juice fast enough to keep the coil saturated and have enough airflow to carry the vapor (and therefore heat) away...
So in a sense, don't we already have a temperature protection built in?
If we apply more power, and we exceed the wicking ability of our setup, or airflow ability of our setup, then yes, we're going to get that burnt/dry hit... but again, I'd rather KNOW that than to have it covered up....
I dunno... I have to be completely honest here... With the flood of high power mods coming from China, I kinda feel this was evolve's way of trying to "set themselves apart" from the rest... To keep themselves relevant... And I have no doubt there will be lots of folks, like the one mentioned above who will buy it and think it's wonderful... because he won't get a dry hit one... Lord knows it could be a great benefit to some of the people just starting with vaping... But for a serious vaper I just can't see the big benefit...
But I dunno... maybe I'm missing something?
I can tell you, pretty much everything. The idea that you'd rather have a burnt hit than just low vapor production is ridiculous.
If you really have that opinion and are not just naysaying, you need to really recalibrate your view on vaping. Why the hell would you WANT to inhale burning plastics and possibly metals when you don't have to?
Everything else you say is no big deal or nothing new is in fact a big deal and very new. Not having dry hits in any circumstance is earthshattering and no, juice feed was not de facto temperature regulation. At one time I believed that but I was wrong. There is no temperature plateau, or rather, it's easy and normal for a coil to have the power to override that plateau.
This new technology well and truly changes the basic concepts of vaping and renders the once very astute and relevant content of this thread irrelevant and outdated. Being under NDA for several months and knowing what was coming, it was quite a trip to look around the forum and realize that nearly every thread about vaping technology was obsoleted by temperature control technology. All the old knowledge is out the window.
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We might have to agree to disagree.
Look at the very first sentence in the wikipedia article you linked to on steam... "Steam is the technical term for the gaseous phase of water"
Now it does go on to say "which is formed when water boils"... Refer to this: Steam
"Steam is either mist (as seen from a kettle), or the gas phase of water (water vapor)."
Now take a look at the article you linked to for vapor... Again the very first sentence... "is a substance in the gas phase at a temperature lower than its critical point"
Thats just "fancy speak" for saying that it's a liquid in gaseous form with a temperature BELOW the boiling point of the liquid.
which coincidentally is why it CAN (doesn't have to be) visible... Because being below it's critical point means it can condense back into tiny droplets... those droplets are what is visible...
bottom line is the dn40 is like a rev limiter or traction control, for an inexperienced driver these "aids" can be a blessing but to a pro they are a hinderance of sort. the fact they require nichrome to sense the resistance rise for me makes it pretty ho hum as I can't vape with nichrome personally it just doesn't agree with me... it's still awesome technology and def a step in the right direction though
ni200, not nichrome. traction control/rev limiting may seem like an apt analogy but it isn't a good one. it's more like the difference between ... fuel injection and dripping gas down the carburetor. It's not simply a limit, it's more or less setting your vaping point, which has not been possible before.
In no way is it a hinderance to any experienced vaper and they are likely to appreciate it most, having had experience with things that came before. It all feels very primitive after this.
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I hope I can vape that wire because it does sound great. I've always dreamed of having a way to reliably have the power come on strong for a fast heat up, then tapper to a reasonable power level to maintain it. I agree my analogy wasn't the best and truth is there probably are no real hinderances with this, as long as I can vape that wire
I get what you're saying... I really do... and I'm not saying I'd rather have a burnt hit... What I'm saying is, I'd rather have my device apply the power I TELL it to apply and if I have a problem fix it...
Let me phrase it another way.... Not long ago I switched from cotton to rayon as a wicking medium. When doing so I had to play around with different wick densities because it's so drastically different from cotton. To do that, my "gauge" was a single coil in an RDA... When wicking with cotton like I normally would I could consistently fire that particular setup at 22W without a hint of dryness or burning... Anything above that and the hint of burning would start to come in... So that was an easy gauge.... When I rewicked with rayon I could use that as my benchmark... If I could fire it above 22W I knew it was wicking more efficiently than cotton.... As I played around with different densities as I was able to increase wattage I knew that particular density was better than previous... When the maximum wattage started back the opposite direction I knew I had exceeded that sweet spot and was packing it too tight...
Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying, "Hey, I love nasty dry burnt burning wick taste" What I'm saying is, if I build my setup correctly I know I won't have that... If I DO get a burnt taste then I know I screwed something up and I need to fix it... I'd rather know that and fix it than to have something cover it up and me just wondering why the vapor production or flavor doesn't seem to be quite what it should.
I dunno, like I said, it's just my opinion...
I hope I can vape that wire because it does sound great. I've always dreamed of having a way to reliably have the power come on strong for a fast heat up, then tapper to a reasonable power level to maintain it. I agree my analogy wasn't the best and truth is there probably are no real hinderances with this, as long as I can vape that wire
My T5 actually does something similiar to this... If a given power setting results in say 5.7v on the coil... When the power button is first pressed it starts out at a much higher voltage (i don't know what the actual curve is) and then quickly drops into the normal set voltage... The idea being coils with more mass come up to temperature very quickly and then settle in to their normal power. The only downside is, without changing firmware it's not something that's adjustable or can be turned on or off... It's never been a problem for me, but I do wish it could be adjusted...
That's one of the only reasons I was really intrigued by the BEC Pro and BEC X.Pro... You can set a custom power curve plotted over time that can be custom catered to a particular coil or setup... I just wish the Pro didn't fail in so many other respects and hope the X.Pro picks up where it fell short.
I hope I can vape that wire because it does sound great. I've always dreamed of having a way to reliably have the power come on strong for a fast heat up, then tapper to a reasonable power level to maintain it. I agree my analogy wasn't the best and truth is there probably are no real hinderances with this, as long as I can vape that wire
Give it a shot, a couple of beta testers had nickel sensitivity and had no issues.
No you really don't, because that's not the way to achieve what we ultimately want to achieve. It's not about achieving a linear or flat power curve, but a flat temperature curve. And to do that you need to throttle back on the power once the coil and/or atomizer is hot.
One thing you find out after a while with temperature control is that actually a fixed power level covers up problems and temperature control reveals them. For example if you get a loss of coil to wick contact (Say you bang the mod against something and it shifts the wick), in a normal atomizer your vapor will get hotter and possibly denser, but less voluminous. Your brain overlooks that because it expects vapor to get hotter over time and draws to naturally get shorter. So in the end you don't notice the difference. With temperature control the change manifests as weak vapor production that is very noticeable.
High power "hot shots" at the beginning of a firing are becoming more common, however without temperature feedback there's no way of knowing whether it might it's doing something good or bad. And open-loop fixed power curves can never hold a candle to closed-loop power control. The programmable power curve has actually been around a while but it has not taken off, for a reason.
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As I see from DNA40 description temperature control is rather annoying feature:
http://www.evolvapor.com/datasheet/dna40.pdf
You need to set correctly new atomizer using menu, you need to use sub ohm coils (nothing else is possible with Ni wire), it will not take in account drift in coil resistance (unless you reset all data on cooled down atti). You will need to turn it off (hope it is possible) each time you want to dry burn coil.
None of that is true except for the dry burn part, which isn't that important because there is a lot less buildup. Yes you can turn it off if you want.
We might have to agree to disagree.
Look at the very first sentence in the wikipedia article you linked to on steam... "Steam is the technical term for the gaseous phase of water"
Now it does go on to say "which is formed when water boils"... Refer to this: Steam
"Steam is either mist (as seen from a kettle), or the gas phase of water (water vapor)."
Now take a look at the article you linked to for vapor... Again the very first sentence... "is a substance in the gas phase at a temperature lower than its critical point"
Thats just "fancy speak" for saying that it's a liquid in gaseous form with a temperature BELOW the boiling point of the liquid.
which coincidentally is why it CAN (doesn't have to be) visible... Because being below it's critical point means it can condense back into tiny droplets... those droplets are what is visible...
it also says steam is invisible. what you see coming out of the kettle is steam transitioning(condensing) back to visible water.(vapor)
the process is reversed when creating vapor.heat creates vapor and if it gets to boiling to gas.(steam)
if we had to heat the liquid to steam first we would need much more power and have heavier equipment
due to heat issues.
i do agree with your original post.
regards
mike
They do run on AC and have coil overheat protection. Looks like they beat the DNA40 with that feature. I believe they are quite popular in Europe.
I don't think that "heat protection" feature is anything like Evolv's temperature protection.
It's not, I think they just pulse the coil with no calculations of resistivity or temp for that matter.
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