Myth Busters: Stainless Steel Conductivity

[emonty]

no myth but facts
The following is from somebody who knows what he is talking about!

As for the thermal conductivity, aluminium is far better than steel as heat is coming out very easy, so the heat don't stay on the battery, so its life is extended.

As for the electrical conductivity. Its well known that steel is one of the worst metals to electrical conductivity. The corrosion of aluminium is because it is a much more "active" metal to electricity then steel so therefore it needs cleaning. Also we never use steel where good electrical conductivity is required because we loose large amounts of energy. There is not one wire in the world made from stainless steel. We need at least 3 mm wire of stainless steel to reach the connectivity compared to 1mm aluminium wire. Also electrons runs much better on the aluminium that on steel. And if you search though internet you will see that everybody says that steel is a bad conductor of electricity and nobody uses it for that purpose.

The total resistance of a mod is the resistance of its weakest point. So if a mod is made all from silver and only one piece is made from another material then the total resistance of the mod is the resistance of the other material.

You can see in this video too how steel affects the connections:

Electrical Resistance of Stainless Steel - LiveVideo.com

Besides all the above: aluminium is 3 times lighter and of course can be polished way more easily than steel.

So it is clear: Steel has no advantages at all, only disadvantages

 

[Cisco]

.01 Resolution on the voltage is more then adequate to show any significant drop in voltage for a PV, though i do have a friend who was kind enough to send me a Fluke and i will gladly re-test when it arrives.

I again want to stress my argument is not that stainless steel is the best conductor among various metals, only that it is more then sufficient for our pv's that carry low loads over very short distances. In other words, regardless if you use brass, stainless, aluminum, etc. in a PV body, you will have no significant losses in voltage and amperage reaching the atomizer and thus all will vape equally.

I will test with an atomizer attached too, though the atomizer is the added resistance, and the bodies resistance will remain a constant as previously tested. We then know the result will be the same, only with a proportionately lower, but near equal, loaded voltage.

I agree .01 is more then adequate, but your meter doesn't read 2 decimal places just 1, hence the the .1 resolution I stated.Stainless has more resistance then aluminum period. Your video proved it, the meter was showing .1 ohm on the aluminum and was bouncing off .2 on the stainless, That proves that the stainless had almost twice the resistance then the aluminum. Here is a chart http://www.kp44.org/ftp/ElectricalConductivityOfMaterials.php showing how increasing the mass could reduce the offset, it doesn't show Stainless but stainless is more resistive then the bronze shown in the chart.

Actual unloaded voltage at the atomizer connection is useless and pointless. You do remember a certain PV that used a SS spring and caused .4ohms of resistance. Loaded voltage will show actual current to the atomizer and resistance in the PV should show increased voltage drop, I am looking forward to seeing your video of loaded voltage to the atty on the aluminum and the stainless tube with all other testing parameters being equal. I think this test could put the argument to rest. If you are correct in assuming our PV's are to small for it to make a difference I will be the first to congratulate you.

I was told that aluminum was a better conductive of electricity. I guess they were wrong. As far as the weight of the SS Super 6 it weighs less than most mod on the market.

I am not sure how you read into anything David said but aluminum is a better conductor of electricity, how much better then Stainless steel Davids new video should put that to the test.

Here is a conductivity chart of metals, aluminum is 4th from the most conductive and Stainless is 20th, use your own judgment....


Conductive Materials or Metal Conductivity - TIBTECH innovations -


Cisco...

 

[martha1014]

.01 Resolution on the voltage is more then adequate to show any significant drop in voltage for a PV, though i do have a friend who was kind enough to send me a Fluke and i will gladly re-test when it arrives.

I again want to stress my argument is not that stainless steel is the best conductor among various metals, only that it is more then sufficient for our pv's that carry low loads over very short distances. In other words, regardless if you use brass, stainless, aluminum, etc. in a PV body, you will have no significant losses in voltage and amperage reaching the atomizer and thus all will vape equally.

I will test with an atomizer attached too, though the atomizer is the added resistance, and the bodies resistance will remain a constant as previously tested. We then know the result will be the same, only with a proportionately lower, but near equal, loaded voltage.

I agree with what your are saying. Cooper would really be best conductor but would turn green. There is not enough difference in these units to actually cause much variation from the different metals.

What is the Chameleon made out of? Is the aluminum?

 

[emonty]

What is the Chameleon made out of? Is the aluminum?

yes it is, I had one

 

[martha1014]

What coating is on the chameleon to keep it from tarnashing or need polishing.

 

[emonty]

What coating is on the chameleon to keep it from tarnashing or need polishing.

Check with Isaac at IkenVape: The Chameleon Line

 

[BrockJ]

no myth but facts

Besides all the above: aluminium is 3 times lighter and of course can be polished way more easily than steel.

My stainless doens't need re-polishing constantly. Unlike my aluminum PV's

The aluminum scratches very easily just from a ring I wear and a pen in my shirt pocket.

I can put my stainless Precise in my pocket with coin change and there's little to no effect.

So............... it may be easier to polish but you only polish SS once...


People are all caught up in thess miniscule amounts of resistance differences.

Do we really think it matters that much?

 

[Switched]

Considering the source and the credibility of the comment (Cisco) it will be interesting to see if there is indeed a substantial difference.

I have a Chameleon and once I receive my P18 it shouldn't be hard to debunk the myth if in fact it is just a myth.

That being said, if the difference is negligible then by all means, the durability of stainless over aluminium any day of the week and 3 times Sunday. But should there be a significant difference well longevity only goes so far, over effectiveness, wouldn't ya think.

 

[gatsby]

Correct me if I am wrong (hey its the internet so someone will even if I don't ask), but even with the longest Precise you are talking about traveling 100mm. If you calculate the resistance at even using 1mm square surface area that is a difference of about .045 ohms. Now since there should be more surface area than that in the walls of the tube the difference seems pretty negligible at best considering the weak link as always is a wet dirty atomizer.

p.s. I should say I am not an authority I am remembering old old physics and using an on-line calculator so I might be thinking of this all wrong. Someone will correct me I am sure if I am and we can all learn.

 

[DaveP]

Aluminum is fine where constant assembly and dis-assembly don't cause wear. I'd rather have SS for long life, aluminum for light weight, and brass or copper for threaded parts. That said, a little lithium white grease will make aluminum threads last almost forever.

Aluminum is a standard in overhead utility wiring. It's lighter in weight than copper, strong enough to withstand weight, and it conducts well as long as contact points aren't allowed to oxidize.

Still, I'd rather have stainless in a PV for longevity and scratch resistance. Copper and brass are first choices for threaded parts that conduct, as in flashlights, but even those use aluminum bodies for light weight and have aluminum screw on end caps that conduct.

 

[redrhino]

Wow on these forums you're gone for one day, and a whole new topic takes on a life of its own....

Just to Clarify. I'm not being argumentative combative or trying to start Drama on the forums...I'm Just stating My personnel opinion....

I for one bought the 18650...And I would have done so no mater what finish it was being offered in, Stainless Steel or Aluminum...Of Course i defiantly prefer Stainless Steel for a lot of reasons over Aluminum. And I'm very happy that Dave made them in Stainless Steel, but as stated above i would have bought one regardless....And as far as the resistance is concerned, I'm defiantly no electrician nor do i have any knowledge of the inner workings of Conductivity...I'm just looking at this from a buyers point of view.It really dosen't matter to me if the ohm is off by .1 .2 .3 .4 or what ever the thing is off by.What Matters to me as a Customer the most, is that the PV works and works well.As a Super Six owner i have Come to one Conclusion Super T products work and work very very well.So to be Completely Honest with everyone who reads this Post...I personally Don't care what the Mod is made out of Stainless Steel, Aluminum,Brass,Steel,Wood or Copper or what ever other material or metal is out there.... I really Couldn't care less if Dave made them out of Match Sticks to be Completely honest. I would still buy a Super T Mod no matter what they were made out of.Because Super T products Just Plain out WORK.....And I'm pretty sure that a legitimate argument can be made between Stainless Steel and Aluminum and it's Conductivity. But the truth of the mater is, as a Consumer i just want a PV that works when i hit that button and Dave at Super T Has an Excellent track record when it comes to Mods that are trouble free and hassle free and work 100% of the time.

 

[forcedfuel50]

Go away for an afternoon and wow...

Sad thing is, my detractors are crediting me with arguments i never made!

To reiterate what i posted in Post number ONE: I AGREE aluminum, brass, copper etc are MORE conductive then Stainless steel! That is commonly available information, yet, my detractors are in a way, making an argument that i'm saying otherwise.

The Question at hand and the whole point of this thread was/is: Is Stainless steel's conductivity suitable for use in mods? The answer is an emphatic YES! This thread isn't about is aluminum suitable, we already know it is!

Grrr....

 

[BrockJ]

Bottom Line... it doesn't matter if it is or not.
That's what the Precise (and many other PV's) is made out of and what we bought based on quality, design and the reputation of the builder.
If mine consumes and extra MAH of current during the cycle of the battery, I'm not going to know it.
If it happens to produce two vortices less vapor across 15ml of liquid, I doubt I'll care.

 

[forcedfuel50]

I'll post up vids of loaded tests and further explanations asap. Just an FYI, as expected, my loaded tests produce no more then 3/100 of a volt variation between stainless and aluminum! Not a typo...they are so close, it's laughable...

 

[VaporMadness]

I'll post up vids of loaded tests and further explanations asap. Just an FYI, as expected, my loaded tests produce no more then 3/100 of a volt variation between stainless and aluminum! Not a typo...they are so close, it's laughable...

I'm not at all surprised by the 3/100 of a volt difference... negligible.

All the same, I was curious as to the loaded test results. Trying to measure near zero resistance with an simple ohm meter just isn't practical. I wouldn't have expected alum vs stainless steel to make much of a difference considering how much material is involved (just think of how many wires you could fabricate out of a PV body). Still, the only practical way to see the difference would be to measure things under load (so measuring the side effects of differences in resistance).

If you're comparing two different PVs with two different types of switches, I'd expect MUCH larger variance in resistance of the switch rather than in the PV body itself.

 

[forcedfuel50]

I agree .01 is more then adequate, but your meter doesn't read 2 decimal places just 1, hence the the .1 resolution I stated.Stainless has more resistance then aluminum period.

First, you are making it as though i claimed stainless steel is as conductive as or more conductive then aluminum which is completely untrue. I posted in my very first post, that aluminum conducts better then stainless steel! Yet i keep seeing all these charts posted to prove a point i already made and agree with in my very first post:

First, it is true that Stainless steel is not as conductive as aluminum or brass, however, stainless steel is still quite conductive and more then up to the task in our pv's.

Also, Please re-read my post, i said .01 resolution of Voltage is adequate of which my meter reads to .01 voltage resolution. Resolution of my meter's ohm's is not relevant and is clouding the issue. I'm not even sure why i tried to measure the resistance as i didn't need too as i can get true accurate resistance measurments of the metals from any of the many published charts:

Electrical resistivity - Definition

Aluminum: .0282 x 10 to the -6 power
Stainless Steel: .72 x 10 to the -6 power

But those numbers are arbitrary and the number that MATTERS to us is what effect those resistance numbers have on an approximately 4-7 volt current flowing through a brass center post and returning (grounding) along a 3" long path of .035 walled stainless steel tubing!

We know aluminum flows "better", but does stainless's resistivity rating allow it to adequately flow our voltage needs without significant drop, and through testing we find the the answer is a resounding "YES"! I'm seeing a maximum of 3/100 of a volt difference between aluminum and stainless steel on my Precise mods., which is completely negligible.

I hope we can lay this to rest. I'll load up the vid in the morning. (uploading the vid to youtube now, but youtube is being a beast this morning..hang in there)

BTW, best of luck with the release of your new mod!

 

[Switched]

Wow! Folks sure get their nickers in a twist quickly around here when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

I bought an all Stainless device for longevity.<---- period.

Now is there a difference wrt conductivity? As I stated I will test it once I get my P18. No need getting all flustered over it. It either stands up to the test or it doesn't.

Aluminum: .0282 x 10 to the -6 power
Stainless Steel: .72 x 10 to the -6 power

But those numbers are arbitrary and the number that MATTERS to us is what effect those resistance numbers have on an approximately 4-7 volt current flowing through a brass center post and returning (grounding) along a 3" long path of .035 walled stainless steel tubing!

Now with all due respect (to all) those numbers might look impressive and insignificant, but take away the common denominator (10 to the minus 6) and you wind up with 2 one hundredths and 7 tenths respectively, and are anything but insignificant.

The original button was supposed to be all stainless in the beginning. Dave made a Command Decision to go with brass, which IMO is a better alternative, and that was supported. That the contact points are brass rather than stainless makes sense. The body is just the "chasis" for ground to flow to. Will the fact that the chasis is made out of stainless cause an impact? We will find out. That is all.

This by no means takes away from Dave or Super T product quality. So why are we getting bent out of shape? If all this discussion is bupkus...

 

[gatsby]

Now with all due respect (to all) those numbers might look impressive and insignificant, but take away the common denominator (10 to the minus 6) and you wind up with 2 one hundredths and 7 tenths respectively, and are anything but insignificant.

I think a lot of folks are missing the point. Even some of those that are supposed to be very knowledgeable about the subject. The question isn't whether SS is less conductive than Aluminum. Thats common knowledge. The question is if in this system using SS has any significant effect on performance. To judge that you need to look beyond the constants and see the effect on moving 4-7 volts 100mm through a pretty significant amount of material (can't really call it gauge here can you? maybe). In this case the math would suggest that the gauge of the material and the length of the path makes the loss of conductivity irrelevant in terms of loss of performance. Reports of David's bench tests seem to confirm that and soon there will be video. Neato. Can I have my P18 now please.

 

[forcedfuel50]

Video: Also, please note, i even tested the aluminum mod first, so it even had the advantage of the freshest battery and still only 3/100 volt difference!

Recap:

Aluminum/Brass Precise: 3.71 loaded after 4 second switch activation
Stainless Steel Precise: 3.68 loaded after 4 second switch activation

YouTube - Stainless Vs Aluminum Loaded Test

 

[Switched]

Cool!

The proof is in the pudding and indeed negligible. Once again what I stated in my earlier post. Now was that hard