Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

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johni

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I see you read Kevin Godbee's and Russ Ouellette's articles on perique.

Sorry I got your shorts all up in a bunch.

I'm still interested in any DIYer's perique tobacco source (St. James, Acadian or faux, I'm just interested in the end result) that gives a macerated juice closer to the GeJ N.P. end of the taste spectrum vs the NET.com end. I'm hoping there a DIYer who has experience with both NET.com and GeJ N.P. for comparison.

Thanks.
I read a lot more than two articles to piece all that together. My shorts are fine, I just have a hard time with repeated misinformation, innuendo, and internet conspiracy theories.

My extraction of Blending Perique is closer to GeJs than Clay's which seems light on the fermented edginess and heavier on a dark fired flavor. I'd say mine is closer to RBFS St. Jame Parish but not quite as clear and sharp. It's a bit of a chameleon, playing differently between sessions and even between drags and I vape it often for short periods as well as bumping up the Perique in less interesting blends.

I'd be glad to send you some extract if you'll lay off the "real Perique" dead horse. PM me if you're interested.
 

Jerms

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I read a lot more than two articles to piece all that together. My shorts are fine, I just have a hard time with repeated misinformation, innuendo, and internet conspiracy theories.

My extraction of Blending Perique is closer to GeJs than Clay's which seems light on the fermented edginess and heavier on a dark fired flavor. I'd say mine is closer to RBFS St. Jame Parish but not quite as clear and sharp. It's a bit of a chameleon, playing differently between sessions and even between drags and I vape it often for short periods as well as bumping up the Perique in less interesting blends.

I'd be glad to send you some extract if you'll lay off the "real Perique" dead horse. PM me if you're interested.

Would you wager a guess as to why St. James is more clear and sharp? Different tobacco or condition of the tobacco or a different extraction or filtration method?

I think Brian has a trick up his sleeves with his extraction process. His Blondie extraction really surprised me that it's the same as others I've had but better to me with a cleaner and clearer separation of flavor notes. I was totally expecting the same juice as other Blondie macerations, but many like me note it as being a noticable improvement.
 

johni

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Would you wager a guess as to why St. James is more clear and sharp? Different tobacco or condition of the tobacco or a different extraction or filtration method?

I think Brian has a trick up his sleeves with his extraction process. His Blondie extraction really surprised me that it's the same as others I've had but better to me with a cleaner and clearer separation of flavor notes. I was totally expecting the same juice as other Blondie macerations, but many like me note it as being a noticable improvement.
I'm really not sure Jerms. My Blondie extraction performs similarly, not as clear and distinct. Not that mine is bad, Brian's is just better. I wish I knew what his secret is and respect him for making some damn fine juice.
 

BaccyFiend

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kevin,

Let me offer a sort of sideways response: Since I started vaping nearly four years ago and, more pointedly, since I began doing my own home-based natural tobacco extractions 16 months ago, I've learned more about tobacco than I did over the entire 40 years that I was addicted to smoking cigarettes. A very significant part of what I've learned is that almost all tobacco that is grown/cured/processed for retail sale contains added sweeteners. Sugar reduces harshness and heat when tobacco is burned and inhaled, so---over the past century---the practice of "casing" has become nearly universal. Casing is a process of spraying a water-based sugar solution on the tobacco leaves that is then absorbed into the cell structures. Casings may be applied at any time---on the living plants in the fields during growing, on whole leaves after harvest or during curing, and---most typically---on cut/chopped leaves during processing that follows curing. I don't know for sure what types of sweeteners are used: sucrose, corn syrup, molasses, etc. I do know that the dilution of the sweetener varies, and that other flavorings---some natural but often synthetic---may be sprayed on as well as part of the casing.

In addition to casing, there is also "toppings." These are alcohol-based solutions of sweeteners or flavorings that are sprayed onto the leaves in the last stages of processing. Being alcohol-based, toppings are not absorbed into the leaf cells. Instead, the alcohol evaporates quickly, leaving the sweeteners and/or flavorings as a coating on the surface of the leaf. Many if not most "aromatic" tobaccos are topped. Beyond that, NET vendors using real tobacco extracts often add even more flavorings during mixing of their NET eliquids, depending on the flavor they're trying to achieve with each particular juice. That's a common practice among the A-List NET vendors we discuss in this thread. As an exception, River Bottom Fog Sauce specifically states that their natural tobacco eliquids contain "no flavor additives of any kind," but that does not imply that the tobaccos used to create the extracts weren't cased or topped. They almost certainly were.

I'd imagine that some uncased/untopped tobacco is probably available, but even so-called "organically-grown" tobacco can be cased, since sugar is considered a "natural" substance. I don't know where one goes to purchase such unadulterated tobacco, but I presume that sources do exist. As I wrote at the beginning, however, if you buy retail tobacco blends or even "varietals" for blending---as many retail NET producers and home extractors do---then it's nearly certain that the tobacco has been cased with sweetener, and perhaps even topped with additional flavorings.

This is just a head's up, really. Finding an NET natural tobacco eliquid completely devoid of added sweeteners and synthetic flavorings may be more challenging than one might assume.

My interpretation of your post is that your concern is not purity, per se, but rather taste. You want your brain to register the flavor of your tobacco eliquid as natural, right? Meaning natural as opposed to synthetic. That moves the discussion into more individual and idiosyncratic territory.

For the record, I share your disdain for the ridiculously elevated prices charged by certain retail NET eliquid vendors, especially some of the newer "boutique" vendors. That's one of the reasons I started making my own natural tobacco extracts and juices.

Word. Well said. kevinb83, this is what going to tobacco school is, complements of Professor Herbst. There are so many factors from seed cultivation to casing/topping and everything along the way that contribute to the "perfect" tobacco that can me macerated, soaked, mixed, and translated into a good vape. For me, it comes down to detecting and analyzing the individual parts and synthesizing in your brain what the perfect vape would be for you. Some basic parusing of the offerings from the vendors on the A- to B-Tier list on page one of this thread should give you an idea what you're looking for. I'm happy to offer my opinion to specific questions you have about the ones I might have tried.
 

papabogart

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I read a lot more than two articles to piece all that together. My shorts are fine, I just have a hard time with repeated misinformation, innuendo, and internet conspiracy theories.

My extraction of Blending Perique is closer to GeJs than Clay's which seems light on the fermented edginess and heavier on a dark fired flavor. I'd say mine is closer to RBFS St. Jame Parish but not quite as clear and sharp. It's a bit of a chameleon, playing differently between sessions and even between drags and I vape it often for short periods as well as bumping up the Perique in less interesting blends.

I'd be glad to send you some extract if you'll lay off the "real Perique" dead horse. PM me if you're interested.

I don't appreciate the insults, but I do appreciate your insights regarding the perique extracts and I really do appreciate the liquid offer, but I'll take your advice and get your recommended blending perique from P&C as I want to make my own stock. I see they also carry the McCellands, so I can try both with one stop.

The wife retires at the beginning of next year and I think we will take a trip down to Poche and see what my winning personality can walk away with.
 

PaulBHC

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I started picking the Perique out of American Spirit Black. It's very time consuming, only got through three cigarettes worth so far. Them little black ribbons are squirmy little suckers. I'll report back at the end of the year on my progress.

Much easier to mix a perique extract with an AmSpirt extract.
 

BaccyFiend

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Since you love Porch Rocker, you may also like Southern Gentleman from MountainOakVapors. It's a similar style multi leaf blend with the light dose of Latakia. If you enjoy stronger Latakia blends, their Apache is a pretty great NET. One nice thing about MOV is their descriptions are very detailed, and they have separate pages for their NETs and synthetic tobaccos.

Want2Vape has a selection of very authentic, unadultered NETs. They are fairly potent, but also fairly gunky on coils. In the other direction, there's MyVapeJuice which has a huge line of straight-up cigar and pipe tobaccos which are much cleaner than W2V, but also much subtler in tobacco flavor.

Ahlusion has two straight-up, in your face NETs; Blue Grass Burley and Devil Dog. Devil Dog is similar to Apache from MOV, an English style blend with a big dose of smoky Latakia.

kevinb83, you might also like Grandpa's Nightcap from QNJ, if you like Porch Rocker. There are also some similarly styled Englishes from EtherVapes (St. Stevens) and a few other new vendors that might appeal to you.
 

BaccyFiend

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I see you read Kevin Godbee's and Russ Ouellette's articles on perique.

Sorry I got your shorts all up in a bunch.

I'm still interested in any DIYer's perique tobacco source (St. James, Acadian or faux, I'm just interested in the end result) that gives a macerated juice closer to the GeJ N.P. end of the taste spectrum vs the NET.com end. I'm hoping there a DIYer who has experience with both NET.com and GeJ N.P. for comparison.

Thanks.

Me too. If retail vendors (RBFS, HoL, GeJ, NETcom, etc.) are getting ahold of it, we should be able to as well. I've got a few (what I think are) pure Periques and Acadians on the way, so I'll be happy to share my results.
 

BaccyFiend

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Lol. I actually considered doing that, for about 2 seconds. I've checked every tobacco shop within 30 miles and only tow carried blending periques. One shop's was a medium brown color w/o any defining aroma. The other was a dark brown with very little aroma, so I bought it. As I said maceration was very disappointing at best. I'd buy online but I hate to be spreading my credit info all over on a unicorn chase. I'd rather narrow down the likely suspects first.

So you'll have your maceration before the first of the year? :)

What brands were they, if you don't mind my asking?
 

papabogart

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i know i'm gonna get ..... but honestly I can't read thousands of pages to figure this out. I am a fan of n-e-t.com's juices but obviously am in a holding pattern from them like everyone else. I also love riverbottom fog sauce, particularly porch rocker. but rbfs is just too pricey.

So what do I do? I ordered 3 of gej's juices (analog, organic, and apple cured). I expected the apple to have some flavorings added. but the others clearly had some artificial sweeteners added. maybe I am naive and the two aforementioned products also have added ingredients, but they damned sure don't taste like it.

I want REAL straight up tobacco extracts at a reasonable price (less than $20/30ml, the lower the better). I would like for them to be similar to n-e-t or rfbs. i don't want added sweeteners or other fake flavors. just the real thing. frankly i'm a little p$#@%d that even with a supposed organic tobacco with "nothing else in the way" from gej i'm tasting fake ingredients.

please help me out.

I tend to agree with your observations and would suggest you try DIY.
 

papabogart

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Me too. If retail vendors (RBFS, HoL, GeJ, NETcom, etc.) are getting ahold of it, we should be able to as well. I've got a few (what I think are) pure Periques and Acadians on the way, so I'll be happy to share my results.

I fear you may have missed the point of Johni and my ...err...discussion.

What brands were they, if you don't mind my asking?

They were bulk tobaccos in bins. I can't remember the wholesaler name that was on the bag. All the shops buy large bags of blending tobacco and this was their "perique", but it was anything but.
 

regal55

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Pure Grain Alcohol..


I thought it was PG cousin Polypropylene Glycol being talk about.



I have another question. I order a couple of these new tube mods with the new DNA type chips. Appearantly below they can't regulate below 4.2 volts. So with a fresh battery they are basically a mechanical. Those of you using a Kayfun (especially w/nets) with 1.5is ohm coils, do you have problems with ejuice burning/tast until the battery voltage drops?
 

boomerdude

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The fully charged battery needs to produce 4.2 supply voltage. Your DNA mod regulates that supply voltage up or down depending on your setting and resistance. That's why the SONY 30 Amp batteries are so popular. High discharge gives you the voltage you need constantly throughout the vape session. Once the battery can no longer provide the 4.2V it signals a recharge needed. Other VV/VW mods will keep going until there's no juice left in the battery. Hope that helps.

I thought it was PG cousin Polypropylene Glycol being talk about.



I have another question. I order a couple of these new tube mods with the new DNA type chips. Appearantly below they can't regulate below 4.2 volts. So with a fresh battery they are basically a mechanical. Those of you using a Kayfun (especially w/nets) with 1.5is ohm coils, do you have problems with ejuice burning/tast until the battery voltage drops?
 

Mr.Mann

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To all you Ahlusion aromatic fans, from Ahlusion's web site under the descriptions of BGB and DD:

"Our Aromatic line will soon be removed permanently from our online menu."

Explains why the others are gone... But House Blends are back.

If it don't make dollars it don't make sense! We ought not get it twisted: Wlad is all about business (from his education to his approach).
 
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boomerdude

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Well, that's the point now, isn't it?

BTW: I didn't forget you as you'll see today or tomorrow.

If it don't make dollars it don't make sense! We ought not get it twisted: Wlad is all about business (from his education to his approach).
 
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