Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

[alisa1970]

This is a really crappy segue...

Anyway, I've had my Indigo NETs here, born dates of 7/8. I tried Creekside right out of the mail and it was OK - I taste the tobacco and also their notorious base, plus some caramel. Haven't refilled the tank since the first one, waiting for later because the flavors are all very separated, and I know from experience that Indigo's stuff really comes around at the 60 day mark.

I just now opened up the bottles of Oorah! and Gung Ho to compare, as Indigo states Gung Ho is Oorah's NET brother. Oorah has much more plum-and-graham flavor. It's a bit darker than Gung Ho, and richer. Gung Ho is mild and smooth - a very distinct tobacco (who knows what kind, I'm no tobacco connoisseur lol) with a balanced brown sugary flavor in there. I don't get the heavy base Indigo is known for. I almost get a light citrus note on the inhale. Really like this one.

Both the NETs are a bit cloudy, only slightly oilier than regular liquid. I'm not getting a perfumey note from them. It's hard to tell but Creekside almost has a TA type feel to it, but no ashyness that I can sense. I don't get that at all from Gung Ho - just a smooth tobacco, almost reminiscent of a cigarette but I can't pinpoint how. Maybe a slightly dusty mouth-feel.

Overall, I still can't tell if there's TA in there, but I've tried exactly 1 home extracted tobacco, and these are similar. If there is TA in these, my guess would be that it's there as a flavor component in addition to an extracted tobacco, and not the main component in the juice.

If anyone else tries these and thinks otherwise, you're more than welcome to shoot this down. As I mentioned these juices are my first foray into NETS so I really have nothing to compare them to.

 

[Mr.Mann]

This is a really crappy segue...

Anyway, I've had my Indigo NETs here, born dates of 7/8. I tried Creekside right out of the mail and it was OK - I taste the tobacco and also their notorious base, plus some caramel. Haven't refilled the tank since the first one, waiting for later because the flavors are all very separated, and I know from experience that Indigo's stuff really comes around at the 60 day mark.

I just now opened up the bottles of Oorah! and Gung Ho to compare, as Indigo states Gung Ho is Oorah's NET brother. Oorah has much more plum-and-graham flavor. It's a bit darker than Gung Ho, and richer. Gung Ho is mild and smooth - a very distinct tobacco (who knows what kind, I'm no tobacco connoisseur lol) with a balanced brown sugary flavor in there. I don't get the heavy base Indigo is known for. I almost get a light citrus note on the inhale. Really like this one.

Both the NETs are a bit cloudy, only slightly oilier than regular liquid. I'm not getting a perfumey note from them. It's hard to tell but Creekside almost has a TA type feel to it, but no ashyness that I can sense. I don't get that at all from Gung Ho - just a smooth tobacco, almost reminiscent of a cigarette but I can't pinpoint how. Maybe a slightly dusty mouth-feel.

Overall, I still can't tell if there's TA in there, but I've tried exactly 1 home extracted tobacco, and these are similar. If there is TA in these, my guess would be that it's there as a flavor component in addition to an extracted tobacco, and not the main component in the juice.

If anyone else tries these and thinks otherwise, you're more than welcome to shoot this down. As I mentioned these juices are my first foray into NETS so I really have nothing to compare them to.

Very insightful! Thank you. This gives me a lot to go on.

 

[papabogart]

Oh yeah, forgot to answer this part.

No, not saying that at all, I'm sure most the concetrates are extremely accurate. I am under the impression that different brands have different flavor and different TH though. I may be wrong in that, I haven't read much about the DIY side, but it seems I've heard that the level of processing and the quality of the nic results in how flavorless and how smooth a nic base is. I know Wizard Labs offers a nic called 'ice' that is smoother with less TH than the normal nic they sell.

If I'm my info is wrong (happens on a regular basis), one of the DIY guys can feel free to correct me.

Just a FWIW. During my search for materials for my "tobacco still", I stumbled across some info related to this, It seems PH is a major factor in nic delivery and what we call TH. If anyone has a few years time on their hands, just google "PH and tobacco" and "PH and nicotine." Actually some pretty interesting stuff regarding differences between Virginias and Burleys, how processing affects them and how nic varies between snuff, cigs, cigars and pipe and why.

 

[alisa1970]

Very insightful! Thank you. This gives me a lot to go on.

OK, I'm certain that Indigo is using NN's "Absolute Extract" tobaccos as the base for their NETs. The verbage in their description is verbatim from NN's site:

[Tobacco]



This is an ‘Absolute’ extract from select fresh flue-cured tobacco leaves. Our extraction process yields a flavor extract absent of nicotine*, nitrosamines, diacetyl, and other harmful ingredients present in combusted tobacco or other extracted tobacco products. Enjoyable mellow and nutty notes of tobacco with none of the combusted taste of a normal cigarette. A true gem in its own light. We worked hard on this one, and hope you enjoy the fruits of our labor as much as we do!

*Our tobacco absolute extract is absent of nicotine, and can be truly formulated to 0mg/mL if required. We utilize a similar process to that of the decaffeination of coffee beans to remove trace nicotine from our product. However, please be advised, other minor tobacco minor alkaloids present in any extract will potentially result in a failed conitine test.

Guaranteed PG-free! All of our concentrated flavors are extracted and solvated in a proprietary blend of VG and ethyl alcohol, ensuring those who seek to formulate their own 100% VG eliquids. Shipped in clear glass vials with polycone caps. Recommended for use at 0.5% – 2.0%.



So, question answered!

 

[Dustmight]

I get it that you're joking, but even the prospect of extracting a 144-year-old $450 cigar fills me with dread. I like extracting because it allows the possibility of terrific results on the cheap where nothing important is riding on the outcome. if I blow an extraction or the resulting juice is not so great, that's no big woof. A rare heirloom cigar changes the game from light-hearted fun to serious responsibility. Not that anyone's likely to offer for real, but I'd have to pass on that one. Maybe another intrepid home-extractor on our growing list would be willing.

My biggest fear is that a 144-year-old cigar would probably make lousy vaping extract. I think it's a good bet that recently-cured, relatively fresh tobacco is the best source for our purposes.

Nice find and a good joke, though.

Boxes of these supposed West End cigars have ben popping up in cigar collector circles for years. A former client of mine who has traveled the world collecting rare cigars personally had a box he bought sent in for carbon dating. The test came back as materials that were aged between 20-30 years maximum. (The box however was genuine) They were likely hand rolled by someone with knowledge of the history and techniques of the time in 1970's or 80's. The smoking experience he said, was one of the worst he'd ever had! After all, if not properly stored, cigars (and all tobaccos for that matter) lose essential oils, diminishing flavor over time.

I'm with you bill. As novel as this is, fresh is best when it comes to extract for e-liquid. Hell, the very first cigar I extracted was 5 years old and kept under "acceptable" conditions in my humidor. Made for a rather "Meh" liquid at best.

 

[Kataphraktos]

For people who have vaped motor oil Organic #1 (moO#1), how would you rate it's gunkiness?

So far it's hinting at being gunky for a GeJ NET. I've only used it in one dripper so far that I changed the wick out once today, but the coil seemed to gunk up fairly quick both times. I don't totally trust the results from this particular set-up, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a gunker because it's extremely dark in color. Seems to be performing about the same as an Ahl aro; not terrible but not great. Like the aros though, I'm willing to trade cleaner performance for great flavor.

Not as gunky as any of the NET.com juices, but gunkier than RBFS. Scale of 1-10:

RBFS: 2-3
moO#1: 5
NET.com: 9

With 10 being actual motor oil.

I love me some gunky juices.

 

[Mr.Mann]

OK, I'm certain that Indigo is using NN's "Absolute Extract" tobaccos as the base for their NETs. The verbage in their description is verbatim from NN's site:

[Tobacco]



This is an ‘Absolute’ extract from select fresh flue-cured tobacco leaves. Our extraction process yields a flavor extract absent of nicotine*, nitrosamines, diacetyl, and other harmful ingredients present in combusted tobacco or other extracted tobacco products. Enjoyable mellow and nutty notes of tobacco with none of the combusted taste of a normal cigarette. A true gem in its own light. We worked hard on this one, and hope you enjoy the fruits of our labor as much as we do!

*Our tobacco absolute extract is absent of nicotine, and can be truly formulated to 0mg/mL if required. We utilize a similar process to that of the decaffeination of coffee beans to remove trace nicotine from our product. However, please be advised, other minor tobacco minor alkaloids present in any extract will potentially result in a failed conitine test.

Guaranteed PG-free! All of our concentrated flavors are extracted and solvated in a proprietary blend of VG and ethyl alcohol, ensuring those who seek to formulate their own 100% VG eliquids. Shipped in clear glass vials with polycone caps. Recommended for use at 0.5% – 2.0%.



So, question answered!

Yeah, that stuck me as WAY more than curious. But, I have to say, you didn't quite describe NN's TA in your Indigo liquids -- well, not exactly, but kinda? Okay, I cant remember which one I landed on. LOL.

 

[regal55]

Not as gunky as any of the NET.com juices, but gunkier than RBFS. Scale of 1-10:

RBFS: 2-3
moO#1: 5
NET.com: 9

With 10 being actual motor oil.

I love me some gunky juices.

I have a NET.com Coconot Cavnet. from before the shutdown and it isn't gunky at all get weeks out of nightly tokes with kanger coils. On the other hand Ether vapes sometimes won't last more than a few hours.

I think there needs to be two classifications of commercial nets:
1. One for on the go kanger tanks (like myvapejuice.com)
2. One for Rebuildable drippers like home brews.


Notic I didn't include rebuildable tanks because to change the cotton no matter how careful a lot of juice is lost, you can't run them low either.

For liesurly evening vaping I highly recommend looking at drippers. I went thru a few before I found one with 4 posts all with hles for the wire,the accept premade fasttech coils and come out to 1 ohm. Its very convenient when time is precious.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Not as gunky as any of the NET.com juices, but gunkier than RBFS. Scale of 1-10:

RBFS: 2-3
moO#1: 5
NET.com: 9

With 10 being actual motor oil.

I love me some gunky juices.

Whoa. Those ratings quite different from my experiences. Those are all about 4-6 with anything 7 or above being saved for some liquids that would likely be a 20 on your scale.

For those liquids that come OOTB dark/black, I have a little experiment for you all to try. When you change out the wick that appears to be gunky, mash it in between a paper towel or napkin and keep pressing the wick until most of the liquid is gone. Once all the liquid has been absorbed, then check the wick -- if the wick doesn't show any clogging or any real level of "stuff" (not necessarily just a little discoloration), the wick is actually just dark from firing dark liquid. Sometimes, depending on how long a wick has been used, the wick/coil can look spent but it's actually just caramelization of an already-dark liquid.

Now, if you get nasty burnt hits, then you need not check anything -- that wick/coil is spent. F5.

 

[dkeppel]

Received my NET.com order on July 19th after a long 3 and a half month wait, they threw in a 5mL sample and upgraded me to a glass bottle ... Juice is nice but a free 5mL sample and glass bottle doesn't really make up for the lack of communication and long wait. A simple mass E-Mail somewhere in that 3 months explaining things would of been nice.

 

[checkum]

I have a NET.com Coconot Cavnet. from before the shutdown and it isn't gunky at all get weeks out of nightly tokes with kanger coils. On the other hand Ether vapes sometimes won't last more than a few hours.

I think there needs to be two classifications of commercial nets:
1. One for on the go kanger tanks (like myvapejuice.com)
2. One for Rebuildable drippers like home brews.


Notic I didn't include rebuildable tanks because to change the cotton no matter how careful a lot of juice is lost, you can't run them low either.

For liesurly evening vaping I highly recommend looking at drippers. I went thru a few before I found one with 4 posts all with hles for the wire,the accept premade fasttech coils and come out to 1 ohm. Its very convenient when time is precious.

What shutdown? Clay is way behind, but shutdown? news to me!

 

[Kataphraktos]

I have a NET.com Coconot Cavnet. from before the shutdown and it isn't gunky at all get weeks out of nightly tokes with kanger coils. On the other hand Ether vapes sometimes won't last more than a few hours.

I think there needs to be two classifications of commercial nets:
1. One for on the go kanger tanks (like myvapejuice.com)
2. One for Rebuildable drippers like home brews.


Notic I didn't include rebuildable tanks because to change the cotton no matter how careful a lot of juice is lost, you can't run them low either.

For liesurly evening vaping I highly recommend looking at drippers. I went thru a few before I found one with 4 posts all with hles for the wire,the accept premade fasttech coils and come out to 1 ohm. Its very convenient when time is precious.

I was using Black Cavendish as representative of NET.com, as it seems to be the most popular flavor here.

Also, I use drippers for my NETs, around 0.6 ohms and 24 watts.

I imagine changing those criteria will lead to dramatically different results.

 

[Kataphraktos]

More on my gunking ratings:

Yesterday I spent about 2 hours at a vape shop, switching between JeG Acadia Gold in a Cyclone and NET.com Sun Cured Turkish (heat) in a v2 Origen. Both 24 Watts, both dual coils at 0.6 ohms. NET.com 5mg nic, 100% VG. Acadia Gold 6mg nic, 50PG/50VG.

Before I left, I checked the coils. The Cyclone/Acadia Gold coil was blackened somewhat, but you could still see the coil wraps. The Origen/NET.com had a thick black coating on it, looked like a piece of coal, and was obviously in dire need of rewicking and dry burning.

It could be the 100% VG of the NET.com leading to different results. But I also run HHV juices in 100% VG in the same atyy configs, and they gunk up like Acadia Gold, so it is difficult to tell what role the PG/VG ratio is playing in this.

If I do order NET.com again, it will be in the recommended ratios, and not 100% VG, so maybe then (you know, Christmas or so ) I'll be able to do a direct and relevant comparison.

 

[alisa1970]

Yeah, that stuck me as WAY more than curious. But, I have to say, you didn't quite describe NN's TA in your Indigo liquids -- well, not exactly, but kinda? Okay, I cant remember which one I landed on. LOL.

I'm sure they're mixing the NN juices with their synthetic blends to create their own profiles. Or maybe Tony has a deal with NN for some custom extractions just for his juice (or some other similar arrangement).

 

[Jerms]

OK, I'm certain that Indigo is using NN's "Absolute Extract" tobaccos as the base for their NETs. The verbage in their description is verbatim from NN's site:

[Tobacco]



This is an ‘Absolute’ extract from select fresh flue-cured tobacco leaves. Our extraction process yields a flavor extract absent of nicotine*, nitrosamines, diacetyl, and other harmful ingredients present in combusted tobacco or other extracted tobacco products. Enjoyable mellow and nutty notes of tobacco with none of the combusted taste of a normal cigarette. A true gem in its own light. We worked hard on this one, and hope you enjoy the fruits of our labor as much as we do!

*Our tobacco absolute extract is absent of nicotine, and can be truly formulated to 0mg/mL if required. We utilize a similar process to that of the decaffeination of coffee beans to remove trace nicotine from our product. However, please be advised, other minor tobacco minor alkaloids present in any extract will potentially result in a failed conitine test.

Guaranteed PG-free! All of our concentrated flavors are extracted and solvated in a proprietary blend of VG and ethyl alcohol, ensuring those who seek to formulate their own 100% VG eliquids. Shipped in clear glass vials with polycone caps. Recommended for use at 0.5% – 2.0%.



So, question answered!

Yeah, it was noticed here that the wording matched Nude's wording, and there's a good chance they use Nude's TA for their "NETs" (NETs is in quotes, because most of us here consider a TA juice separate from a NET). Kind of disappointing, as when it was heard that Indigo was going to offer NETs I assumed, like I'm sure others did, that they were talking about actual NETs and not TA flavored tobacco vapes.

Still, more important to me for my personal use is how they actually taste. I would like for vendors to get their terms right, but in the end I happily vape NET, TA, synthetic, or hybrids as long as I enjoy the flavor, so thanks for the previous description you provided!

 

[Jerms]

Not as gunky as any of the NET.com juices, but gunkier than RBFS. Scale of 1-10:

RBFS: 2-3
moO#1: 5
NET.com: 9

With 10 being actual motor oil.

I love me some gunky juices.

Wow, my experience is quite different. Of course there's many factors involved in gunkiness and we all use unique set-up and vape styles, so even something like gunkiness has a subjective side to it. For me, NETcom's gunk level was about the same as other macerated NET vendors like GeJ and QnJ, about in the middle of the scale. Gunkier than synthetics for sure, but nothing a typical NET vaper really minds.

If you haven't had some of the gunkier juices W2V offers, such as Red Pirate and the Vapenstein line, then try those for some truly gunky juices. And if you really love gunky juices, Walker Tobacco Alternatives is a must try, as they coil is already gunked up by the second half of the first vape!

 

[Jerms]

Whoa. Those ratings quite different from my experiences. Those are all about 4-6 with anything 7 or above being saved for some liquids that would likely be a 20 on your scale.

For those liquids that come OOTB dark/black, I have a little experiment for you all to try. When you change out the wick that appears to be gunky, mash it in between a paper towel or napkin and keep pressing the wick until most of the liquid is gone. Once all the liquid has been absorbed, then check the wick -- if the wick doesn't show any clogging or any real level of "stuff" (not necessarily just a little discoloration), the wick is actually just dark from firing dark liquid. Sometimes, depending on how long a wick has been used, the wick/coil can look spent but it's actually just caramelization of an already-dark liquid.

Now, if you get nasty burnt hits, then you need not check anything -- that wick/coil is spent. F5.

I go purely by flavor. Some dark liquid can really darken up a wick before developing a carbon build-up on the coil that effects flavor.

Some NETs start losing flavor notes before having that tell-tale gunk burn flavor. Those are actually a little frustrating for me, because I CAN keep vaping it since it's performing fine, but it's usually my favorite notes that disappear first. And some taste fine until boom, nasty gunky taste. It's not just different juices that act different, but also the dripper and set-up I'm using. So many factors, most of which I don't have a clue of their nature.

 

[Jerms]

I was using Black Cavendish as representative of NET.com, as it seems to be the most popular flavor here.

Also, I use drippers for my NETs, around 0.6 ohms and 24 watts.

I imagine changing those criteria will lead to dramatically different results.

I never had their straight Black Cav. I had.. let's see.. Big Spirit, Chris' Blend, H+, Coventry, Balkan, Mango Vanilla, and.... hmmm that may be it.

 

[y cherry y]

Not as gunky as any of the NET.com juices, but gunkier than RBFS. Scale of 1-10:

RBFS: 2-3
moO#1: 5
NET.com: 9

With 10 being actual motor oil.

I love me some gunky juices.

Want2Vape: Ours go to eleven.

 

[Dusty_D]

So, for my 4 year anniversary of giving up on the coffin nails, I chose to go with, Johni's Milan Centenary.. seemed fitting somehow!

Milan Centenary (English) Pipe Tobacco: Blended in 2012 to complete our 100th Anniversary Pipe
Tobacco Blend Trilogy, which includes Celebration (aromatic) and Milestone (non-aromatic),
Centenary is a wonderful traditional English blend reminiscent of pipe tobacco blending recipes used
when our store first opened. This blend has a rich taste of hickory with subtleties of nut and wood, and
a nice proportion of spice on the finish. Fifteen different tobaccos were used to create this complex
blend, including a healthy dose of Latakia, but we think you'll agree the result is well worth it. Room
temp extracted 2/14, 100 PG.

Damn good!