Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

[Jerms]

So, HHV buys steam-distilled tobacco extract to flavor its NETs, or at least some of them. This is not a recent revelation, since it's been stated on the thread often over a long period of time, but do we know anything about where HHV gets it? I mean, what source company or laboratory produces steam-distilled tobacco extract for the wholesale eliquid market (i.e., vendors)?

I've never heard of one and, as far as I know, the identity of such a source has never been mentioned on this thread. Who's doing it? Is this the private underbelly of the vaping marketplace, with some secret handshake that only vendors know? Is the extract a custom order produced specifically at the request of a certain vendor, or is it a more general product that is then marketed to or sought out by vendors? How does a lowly end consumer pierce the veil of secrecy about this?

When I google "steam distilled tobacco extract," all I come up with are a bunch of scientific abstracts, patent applications, and other weird stuff, all of which appears on the surface to be fairly far afield from flavorings for vaping. There's certainly no link to a company site that says, "Get your steam-distilled natural tobacco extract flavorings here!"

Mann, this seems like the kind of thing you might know. Any clues?

Interesting question Bill. I just tried some various googling without finding any clues. Based on my memory of things said here, DarthVapers had their own steam distillation set-up and may have sold their tobacco extracts to Vermillion (no facts here, just speculation). DV is no longer around though. Ahl may also sell their steam distilled tobaccos whole sale. It's probably safe to assume HHV's source isn't DV or Ahl (or is it?).

I'm heading to work soon, but I look forward to seeing if any leads pop up. I have a feeling it will remain a mystery in the same way as BWB "NET" info.

 

[Dusty_D]

Interesting question Bill. I just tried some various googling without finding any clues. Based on my memory of things said here, DarthVapers had their own steam distillation set-up and may have sold their tobacco extracts to Vermillion (no facts here, just speculation). DV is no longer around though. Ahl may also sell their steam distilled tobaccos whole sale. It's probably safe to assume HHV's source isn't DV or Ahl (or is it?).

I'm heading to work soon, but I look forward to seeing if any leads pop up. I have a feeling it will remain a mystery in the same way as BWB "NET" info.

 

[Mr.Mann]

So, HHV buys steam-distilled tobacco extract to flavor its NETs, or at least some of them. This is not a recent revelation, since it's been stated on the thread often over a long period of time, but do we know anything about where HHV gets it? I mean, what source company or laboratory produces steam-distilled tobacco extract for the wholesale eliquid market (i.e., vendors)?

I've never heard of one and, as far as I know, the identity of such a source has never been mentioned on this thread. Who's doing it? Is this the private underbelly of the vaping marketplace, with some secret handshake that only vendors know? Is the extract a custom order produced specifically at the request of a certain vendor, or is it a more general product that is then marketed to or sought out by vendors? How does a lowly end consumer pierce the veil of secrecy about this?

When I google "steam distilled tobacco extract," all I come up with are a bunch of scientific abstracts, patent applications, and other weird stuff, all of which appears on the surface to be fairly far afield from flavorings for vaping. There's certainly no link to a company site that says, "Get your steam-distilled natural tobacco extract flavorings here!"

Mann, this seems like the kind of thing you might know. Any clues?

I've looked, but never found anything. Not exactly sure what to look for since, like you said, the current searches leads to more research stuff.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I'm pretty sure I read a post on here about a company that does it, and speculation that it could be HHV's source. It may very well have been MM that posted it.

If I made any speculation it was truly and only speculation, meaning it wasn't something that even I believed. I would speculate more on Vermillion River than even DV or HHV, though I could've loosely drawn connections to the whole "steam distilled" talk as that does pop up from some of these vendors without any source that I can find.

 

[Dusty_D]

If I made any speculation it was truly and only speculation, meaning it wasn't something that even I believed. I would speculate more on Vermillion River than even DV or HHV, though I could've loosely drawn connections to the whole "steam distilled" talk as that does pop up from some of these vendors without any source that I can find.

Somebody is going to need to search the original thread for the information that was posted before. I am almost certain that there was a company named, because I remember looking up their website only to find that they only sold commercially.

Damn those fading grey cells!

 

[Mr.Mann]

Oh, that company? Yeah, doubtful. I got some of their stuff and 'twas NASTY! That stuff is not for vaping as far as I can tell. This is likely who you are referring to: Home | Tobacco-Extract

 

[billherbst]

Somebody is going to need to search the original thread for the information that was posted before. I am almost certain that there was a company named, because I remember looking up their website only to find that they only sold commercially.

Damn those fading grey cells!

Dusty,

I don't remember a company ever being mentioned by name in either Part of the thread, but that doesn't mean that you're wrong. My brain is just as likely to be fuzzy as yours is.

By the way, I have no interest in buying any steam-distilled natural tobacco extract. I ask about HHV's source purely from the standpoint of wanting fuller disclosure of what's in the retail liquids we vape. Some of what motivates that wish comes from the health standpoint, since we don't know the long-term health implications of vaping natural tobacco extracts, but more of it is linked to my curiosity about the specific tobaccos used to make the extracts that flavor our NETs. Another part is philosophical---I favor and lean more toward "open source" than toward "proprietary secrets." That's one of the practices I appreciate from Diane at MVJ. She lists the tobaccos used for each of her 2nd and 3rd generation cigar and pipe NETs.

As an aside, I feel much the same way about non-tobacco flavorings, whether natural or lab-based. The vaping consumer interested in DIY has access to the major players in the flavoring industry as it adapts to vaping: TPA/TFA, FlavourArt, Capella, LorAnn, Hangsen and other Chinese flavoring lines, Inawera, Nature's Flavors Organics, Decadent Vapours, and a bunch of other smaller outfits. And yes, some juice vendors use these companies to flavor their retail eliquids. But other companies use flavorings from more arcane sources. Who are these other companies that generally remain invisible to the retail DIY vaping consumer? How did vendors find them? And how do we find them?

 

[Big Juicy]

I know you didn't mean for one to shoot in this direction, but this is just another reason why I have avoided HHV. They may be the cats pajamas for all I know, but just way too many red flags for my taste. Lack of transparency, inconsistent batch to batch, allegedly changed recipes, a poor website where juices are not subcategorized, lack of foresight (and ethics?) in using trademarked Tolkien names...just a lot of bugaboos for me. I will give them this, their prices are excellent and they have an extremely loyal, almost cultish core following. I don;t know...maybe I am just bitter because I WANT to see what others do in them.

I am still debating throwing a PIF/Trade feeler out there but not sure how much principle I am standing on.

 

[Dusty_D]

Oh, that company? Yeah, doubtful. I got some of their stuff and 'twas NASTY! That stuff is not for vaping as far as I can tell. This is likely who you are referring to: Home | Tobacco-Extract

That does look like the one that was posted before.. site layout looks very familiar and they do list E-Cigarettes in their applications page: Applications | Tobacco-Extract

 

[Mazinny]

might be slightly off topic, but since issues of transparency and ethics have been brought up, does anyone know a vendor who has their list of ingredients in their juice verified by a named certified independent lab, or does it only go as far as take our word for it ?

 

[Mr.Mann]

That does look like the one that was posted before.. site layout looks very familiar and they do list E-Cigarettes in their applications page: Applications | Tobacco-Extract

I would approach with a healthy dose of caution though if anyone thinks that they are a legitimate possibility for vaping -- even with that mention. It's so tricky to navigate the terrain on what should be included in eliquid vs. other applications. For all we really know, maybe those other application should remain other. I know my friend was in serious talks with them and gave up because they knew nothing about ecigs -- but that was last year, so maybe something has changed? But note, that mention of "ecigs" was on their site even back then when they had no clue about the particulars of vaping (from hardware to liquid).

 

[Dusty_D]

Apologies for the earlier derailment of the thread. Have a nice evening, folks!

 

[Big Juicy]

Speaking of derailment, I am not loving the Waffle and Root Beer from Backwoods Brew so far. The Root Beer is more Root Beer barrel candy to me, and the waffles just seems...a bit hollow and lacking. I find it less satisfying then some Highbrow waffle I once tried. Ironically a few more people have suggested HHV's waffle...and you gotta respect the options offered for that juice...so do I dare? As for Root Beer, I am quite certain that Ahlusion's Sasperilla sets a standard that few if any can rival, but we shall see.

Steering back to port, Casablanca and Maple Tobacco are steeping for a week or two.

 

[Dusty_D]

10 of Boomers mixes have made their way over to me by way of a Trade a few days ago:

Blending Single Varietals:
Full Flake Virginia
Turkish Ribbon Cut

Commercial Blends:
McClelland No. 110 Just Plain Nut
Sutliff Voo Doo Queen

Flavored:
Newminster #23 Blackberry Brandy
Sutliff Sunset Rum

Cigar:
Ramon Bueso Genesis
Drew Estates Java Maduro
Tatiana Honey Flavored
Tatiana Vanilla Flavored

Somehow the mail from Boston makes it here in 3 days. NOT ENOUGH STEEP TIME!

Sigh! Let the waiting begin.

 

[NotSoMini]

might be slightly off topic, but since issues of transparency and ethics have been brought up, does anyone know a vendor who has their list of ingredients in their juice verified by a named certified independent lab, or does it only go as far as take our word for it ?

Check opensourcevapor.com. They list all of their ingredients however not the name of the lab. Allows you to specify flavor by dripper or tank as well as thickness by dripper or tank. No NETs though. Apologies for this off topic post.

 

[boomerdude]

Hey BJ, have you considered, Root Beer Waffles?

Speaking of derailment, I am not loving the Waffle and Root Beer from Backwoods Brew so far. The Root Beer is more Root Beer barrel candy to me, and the waffles just seems...a bit hollow and lacking. I find it less satisfying then some Highbrow waffle I once tried. Ironically a few more people have suggested HHV's waffle...and you gotta respect the options offered for that juice...so do I dare? As for Root Beer, I am quite certain that Ahlusion's Sasperilla sets a standard that few if any can rival, but we shall see.

Steering back to port, Casablanca and Maple Tobacco are steeping for a week or two.

 

[boomerdude]

The Tatiana's are good to go. Try the Honey first.

10 of Boomers mixes have made their way over to me by way of a Trade a few days ago:

Blending Single Varietals:
Full Flake Virginia
Turkish Ribbon Cut

Commercial Blends:
McClelland No. 110 Just Plain Nut
Sutliff Voo Doo Queen

Flavored:
Newminster #23 Blackberry Brandy
Sutliff Sunset Rum

Cigar:
Ramon Bueso Genesis
Drew Estates Java Maduro
Tatiana Honey Flavored
Tatiana Vanilla Flavored

Somehow the mail from Boston makes it here in 3 days. NOT ENOUGH STEEP TIME!

Sigh! Let the waiting begin.

 

[Dusty_D]

The Tatiana's are good to go. Try the Honey first.

I think 2-3ml of Voodoo and Tatiana Honey to begin!

 

[boomerdude]

Someone is going to be up all night chain vaping those two.

I think 2-3ml of Voodoo and Tatiana Honey to begin!

 

[boomerdude]

That Voo Doo Queen has nuances upon nuances and the top note is really hard to describe. One of my favorites.