Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux
- Thread starter luceblueboy
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I didn't start rebuilding coils until January of this year, and I always associated Cloud-Chasing with sub-ohm builds... not my bag. I stumbled upon the micro-coil thread a few weeks after I started building my own and haven't looked back, micros and NETs work for me.
I've browsed the VJ Vaping Deals site on occasion when I'm in need of new 18650's, and only buying from state-side sites like 101 Vapors(?), they had a good deal on some 18650 Efest 3100mah & the Sony (?) 2600mah batteries.
I don't mind Fast-Tech for their replacement coils on the T3's or Aspire Nautilus, and their RG400 &RG200 Bottom Coil Glass Clearomizers (4.0mL & 2.0ml) perform admirably and don't leak.
Well, I feel there is definitely merit to the advisory, which is all it is -- just like what is in the DIY forum.
Well, the Queen certainly showed me who the boss was this evening. I wicked a KFL with Rayon and about 1/2 hour into it, she went Nah Uh! that's not right.. do it again!
So I did! and we then settled in for a beautiful couple of hours together.
Smokey Latakia..always omnipresent. It surrounds the other lesser players in this juice and carries them within itself. There's harmony happening here. So many different players coming together to make sweet music. Burley, Perique, Virginia making themselves known at a lot lower level. There's no "funk" going on here from the Perique, but it's there. It's definitely there. You can feel it's presence on your tongue.
Mocha?! I don't get that at all. Maybe something lost in translation from tobacco to extract, perhaps.
I like this one a lot, but am I going to be able to handle the Queen for long periods of time? I really don't know..
Every tobacco lover should try this one at least once.. a week!
Thank you for introducing me to the Queen, Boomer!
So I did! and we then settled in for a beautiful couple of hours together.
Smokey Latakia..always omnipresent. It surrounds the other lesser players in this juice and carries them within itself. There's harmony happening here. So many different players coming together to make sweet music. Burley, Perique, Virginia making themselves known at a lot lower level. There's no "funk" going on here from the Perique, but it's there. It's definitely there. You can feel it's presence on your tongue.
Mocha?! I don't get that at all. Maybe something lost in translation from tobacco to extract, perhaps.
I like this one a lot, but am I going to be able to handle the Queen for long periods of time? I really don't know..
Every tobacco lover should try this one at least once.. a week!
Thank you for introducing me to the Queen, Boomer!
It's poorly written and there's way too much that can be left open to interpretation. I don't really want to touch it because of how some of the mods are, but I'm sure I'll have a fun chat with you about it in the future.
Oh, the mocha will show up don't you worry. In about another week you'll taste it and damned if you can't almost distinguish the different burleys in there. One is nutty but there's a woodsy kind of flavor, the only way I can describe as green or wet wood campfire smoke.
So, what you're saying is that I need to finish this bottle in under a week if I don't want to confuse the heck out of myself.
Dipping into Ahl's Apple Wild Wood sent by Cherry. I've had it before but, oh wow, still love it. I emailed Ahlusion asking if they could custom make a juice for me that was straight Wild Wood tobacco, but never heard back. Oh well, still need to try more of the flavored WWs, including Vanilla WW and maybe Maple WW next order. Getting Caramel House Blend too.
The other big source of organic flavors (besides NF) is Medicine Flower. Expensive but super potent (but still expensive even compensating for that) I recognize their flavors in a number of vendor juices. The have a CO2 extracted organic tobacco sourced from bulgaria. I found that steeping it in VG and then filtering it cut out the problem of cloudy liquid and it vapes pretty clean after that.
I have found that most alternative flavor houses have minimum order quantities that would cut most DIYers out. Who needs a gallon of one flavor?
It's poorly written and there's way too much that can be left open to interpretation. I don't really want to touch it because of how some of the mods are, but I'm sure I'll have a fun chat with you about it in the future.
The diacetyl issue could've been worded differently (and likely should've included other, ahem, liquids,) and the sub-ohm talk could've been broadened to power in general (considering you can push a lot of watts/heat without going "sub-ohm"), but for me it's all worth taking into consideration even if there's a lot left open to interpret -- we all get the jist, whether we accept it or not.
So just like other advisories, people can take it or leave it -- and by the looks of it, many are leaving it. I'll take it. Not saying I won't engage in that activity sometimes, but I can accept vaping at high power has its risks. It's okay to say that, right? Not saying it's equal to the dangers of smoking, but I think it sure as hell ain't in the same risk family as a cig-a-like.
Don't most risk-takers revel in the risks they're taking, not deny the risks exist? But if one is to deny any risks involved, they should at least be privy to the complexity of that which they're denying. Saying it's just "water vapor" ain't going to cut it.
Ray, of course I am not invoking your voice or saying you don't understand the issues, but too many people are quick to say "dude, its perfectly safe" when many of them have no clue about what's even being addressed. Frankly, I know enough of the science to tell me I don't know enough about the science to say that. At least that advisory makes it possible for those that didn't know to see what some of the possible issues are (even though it left a lot open).
It's poorly written and there's way too much that can be left open to interpretation. I don't really want to touch it because of how some of the mods are, but I'm sure I'll have a fun chat with you about it in the future.
I wish I could say that there was a professional team of writers out there putting together this stuff, but there isn't. Roly would have drafted and put it out there in order to raise awareness of the issue. Feel free to reach out to him via his contact info. I'm sure he could use some help with all the stuff that needs doing around here.
I haven't read the new advisory. I don't venture far from this thread anymore. I'm content with what I've found for setups an liquids. Anything in there important to read?
I spent all day at work with Johni's Kuba Deluxe juice. It was amazingly nice to my coils. I went through 2ml without a hitch. It was also pretty tasty as I got to the middle of my tank. The cigar flavors were pronounced even though they weren't easily distinguished. The sweetness of the "infused" flavors were not overwhelming. I think I enjoyed the juice more than I ever did the actual ACID cigars.
MVJ's Drew Estate 7th Avenue Blonde didn't stand up as an all day vape for me. The flavor was great early on. As the day wore on it lead to zombie tongue. It over loaded my buds. The biggest culprit was the Vanilla. It became flat and almost powdery tasting. It is a great juice. In the end it is just a Mini PT3 juice though.
Last night went to MFT's Black Gold. It will be getting some more steep time.
It has been a short steep. Early on it is mostly cavendish, dark and earthy cavendish (the maduro cavendish?), and subtle hints of vanilla with virginia notes peeking as you get more age on the coils. There is another dark flavor that is hard to name. It is like the coffee and chocolate notes blend together and make a unified, but unnameable flavor. There is a lot going on in this flavor. It isn't bad, but it isn't ringing my bells.
I'm on Johni's Louisiana Red this morning. The juice is evolving nicely. There is virginia sweetness mixed with a mature toasty virginia taste. The perique is showing more of the fruit side than spicy side. It is also helping to round out the flavor with a dark body. My first few vapes were kind of like toast with fruity jam. It is definitely a winner still. I've got about 1.8ml loaded up. So, we'll see how it holds out.
I spent all day at work with Johni's Kuba Deluxe juice. It was amazingly nice to my coils. I went through 2ml without a hitch. It was also pretty tasty as I got to the middle of my tank. The cigar flavors were pronounced even though they weren't easily distinguished. The sweetness of the "infused" flavors were not overwhelming. I think I enjoyed the juice more than I ever did the actual ACID cigars.
MVJ's Drew Estate 7th Avenue Blonde didn't stand up as an all day vape for me. The flavor was great early on. As the day wore on it lead to zombie tongue. It over loaded my buds. The biggest culprit was the Vanilla. It became flat and almost powdery tasting. It is a great juice. In the end it is just a Mini PT3 juice though.
Last night went to MFT's Black Gold. It will be getting some more steep time.
It has been a short steep. Early on it is mostly cavendish, dark and earthy cavendish (the maduro cavendish?), and subtle hints of vanilla with virginia notes peeking as you get more age on the coils. There is another dark flavor that is hard to name. It is like the coffee and chocolate notes blend together and make a unified, but unnameable flavor. There is a lot going on in this flavor. It isn't bad, but it isn't ringing my bells.
I'm on Johni's Louisiana Red this morning. The juice is evolving nicely. There is virginia sweetness mixed with a mature toasty virginia taste. The perique is showing more of the fruit side than spicy side. It is also helping to round out the flavor with a dark body. My first few vapes were kind of like toast with fruity jam. It is definitely a winner still. I've got about 1.8ml loaded up. So, we'll see how it holds out.
It's poorly written and there's way too much that can be left open to interpretation. I don't really want to touch it because of how some of the mods are, but I'm sure I'll have a fun chat with you about it in the future.
I've taken a look at the advisory, and I agree that it needs tightening up. It also needs to refer to high wattage vaping generally, and not just sub-watt. We need to be extremely careful not to put anyone off vaping, but ensure that consumers are aware of any knowable risks.
I'm working on a rewrite now.
I love VaPer blends. I am starting to think I enjoy them more than cigars by a wide margin. Cigars seem to be much more similar in vape form than analog. The pipe smokes tend to be much more distinguishable in vape form. The also come across with much more pronounced flavor.
Yes. Then I can sell you another bottle for, oh say, $5.00 per ml. Yeah, that sound about right. Mmmkay?
So, what you're saying is that I need to finish this bottle in under a week if I don't want to confuse the heck out of myself.
I get all that and you do too. I know you do a lot of research, but most people don't. It's just dangerous using ambiguous terms. I'm still scratching my head at the use of "regular vapor." As opposed to what?!? Even "sub-ohm" on its own is too broad. What's the difference in safety between 0.9 and 0.2? What about people that use something like 1.2-ohms and crank up the voltage/wattage on a regulated vaping device. When you're as influential as ECF is, you really have to be careful with official "advisories," and this one needs more thought.
Bill, i don't think the companies you mentioned are major players in the flavoring industry as a whole. I have a friend who has been doing research on major companies in that industry as part of his job, and he hadn't even heard the name of most of the companies you have mentioned.
I did a quick search, and these were the biggest companies in this industry between the years 2009 and 2013 :
Flavor & Fragrance Industry - Top 10
Now i don't know if any of these companies would even sell at the quantities liquid vendors purchase, but just because we haven't heard of food flavoring and fragrance companies that don't cater to the diy community, doesn't necessarily mean they are arcane.
Last edited:
jc,
OK, I went to the Medicine Flower web site. Pretty much a one-stop-shop for the whole range of products pertaining to organics/healing/aromatherapy/flavorings/soaps/potions/etc. with a general background tone of new age spirituality. (I spent much of my adult life in those kinds of communities, so I mean no disrespect, but it is definitely a subculture with a specific niche.)
Medicine Flower's tobacco preparation/product is clearly Tobacco Absolute. The giveaways are:
"Method of Extraction: CO2 Extracted Absolute; Country of Origin: Bulgaria.
Tobacco Absolute (TA) has its place on this thread and is discussed from time to time, but the consensus of opinion here is that we don't regard TA as a typical NET, since it's basically an ultra-super-concentrated essential oil. Beyond that, TA doesn't really taste like a macerated or steam-distilled natural tobacco extract. Yes, it is used in numerous retail tobacco eliquids, usually to add a smoky, ashy component to synthetic tobacco flavorings. Most NETs we deal with here on the thread are not combined with synthetic tobacco flavors. That's not to suggest that you shouldn't use Medicine Flower TA as you wish. There are no 'rules,' and if you like the results, that's great.
As for Medicine Flower's organic flavorings, I've not used any of them, obviously, since Medicine Flower is new to me, but here's the skinny on how they're produced:
"Our flavors are obtained through a proprietary technology conducted at temperatures below 118 degrees F. This process comprises a multi-stage extraction encompassing initial desiccation, lyophilization, CO2 and HFC extraction."
So, they dry the fruits/herbs/whatever, then freeze-dry them, then extract the flavoring using a carbon dioxide and/or hydrofluorocarbon process. I've heard of CO2 extraction; HFC extraction is new to me.
And yes, the flavorings are certainly pricey, compared to run-of-the-mill TPA/FlavourArt/Capella/Nature's Flavors/etc., but that doesn't surprise me, given Medicine Flower's philosophical stance on purity.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
