Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

[rdsok]

I just received an order from MyVapeJuice of several of their newer juices... I really haven't been in a hurry to pre-test them considering how many others have said they needed a good steep first to come about... So even though I got it on Monday, tonight was the first night I broke the seal on one.

I'm pretty surprised by the Sutliff Private Stock - Charlemagne already...

First I was expecting it too really need to steep a while in order for it to be bolder.... It's already starting off nicely in that area but I suspect the burley and black cav will assert themselves more as they usually do. Right now the overall tone is in the low midrange and mids with the Virginia's bright notes supporting nicely with a slight hay like flavor they are known for. Most tobacco's I've vaped have a natural sweetness to them... this does also, almost plum fruityness in nature. I've read others mentioning a rum like flavor... I'm not getting that right now.

This would be a good evening after dinner, while reading a book type of vape. Smooth with some deeper notes ( I'd like to taste a bit more here ), balanced by the brighter ones and the sweet fruity flavor really makes it nice and relaxing. I'm going to have to get a pipe mod someday... just to help set the mood.

Considering how soon after I received this... I'm really looking forward to what this one can steep into.

I completely forgot to mention the vanilla notes I was getting in Charlemange.... until I read through BaccyFiend's little review...

 

[boomerdude]

Gotta love the vaping community. Koh Gen Do is out of stock everywhere, even Koh Gen Do Cosmetics Corp. is out of stock and will limit purchases to two packs per customer when they do restock. Get yours before the price doubles.

And, use less wicking medium. He practically stuffs everything he builds. Love him though..

 

[Kataphraktos]

At one level, this entire thread is a beauty contest in which we are all judges. Kat's post is squarely in that longstanding tradition, where posters tell us which contestants (NETs) they like, and which they don't. Descriptions of the retail NETs are given as reasons why the judge has voted a certain way. Ironically, these descriptions sometimes tell us more about the judge and his/her vaping preferences than they do about the nature and quality of the NETs themselves.

In Kat's post, W2V NETs are criticized as being "harsh" and having a "bite," while Ethervapes NETs are praised for being "smooth." I haven't had any of either Ethervapes' or Net.com's NETs, so I can't comment on them from personal experience. I have, however, vaped most of the W2V and MOV NETs, and those descriptions (harshness and bite) don't resonate for me. I'm not challenging Kat's experience---I accept it as given. It's more that the scale of "harsh to smooth" is not generally how I experience the spectrum of NETs. I can't think of any retail NETs out of the 150+ I've had where my reaction was to think either "harsh" or "smooth," and my experience of "bite" in eliquids is associated almost entirely with nicotine, although some flavors are smoother than others. For me, that scale is intense to mild, rather than harsh to smooth.

Please understand, I'm not questioning Kat's preference for Ethervapes NETs over W2V's or MOV's. I'm just trying to translate the harsh vs. smooth description into terms I understand from my own experience, and I'm not at all sure that intense vs. mild is accurate.

Heeeeey! Absolutely nothing I said was meant as criticism. Perhaps the term "harsh" has negative connotations. Perhaps "rough" is better? It really isn't about intensity - for example, W2V CI Cigar I found to be a VERY intense flavor, but it had no "roughness" to it on my palate. One of the reasons I wrote this, and likened W2V to MOV, was that I wanted to perhaps understand what it was about those types of juices that I did not care for. Are they meant to more accurately reflect the analog experience? I don't think this is the case with W2V, as these are cigar extracts as I understand it.

This was an utterly subjective "what I like and don't like", nothing more. I would say the only lessons anybody could possibly take away from anybody's impressions here are:

1. I like NET.com, and if you like NET.com, there is a good chance we have similar taste buds, so you might like other brands that I like.
2. Of course, this statement is about as scientific as astrology or alchemy, so the only real statement is you must try them for yourself, because taste buds in vaping are a hundred times more subjective than taste buds reacting to food or drink.

I order all tobacco flavors in 6mg (or the closest, i.e. NET.com in 5mg). So my impressions should not be related to nicotine content.

 

[Jerms]

The other big source of organic flavors (besides NF) is Medicine Flower. Expensive but super potent (but still expensive even compensating for that) I recognize their flavors in a number of vendor juices. The have a CO2 extracted organic tobacco sourced from bulgaria. I found that steeping it in VG and then filtering it cut out the problem of cloudy liquid and it vapes pretty clean after that.

I have found that most alternative flavor houses have minimum order quantities that would cut most DIYers out. Who needs a gallon of one flavor?

That looks to be regular commercial TA, which is sourced from Bulgaria. Most here are very familiar with TA, but I don't think many here really like it (I sure do though).

Looking at MedicineFlowers organic flavorings, I wonder if that's one of Tetra-Vapes flavor sources. I would bet it is, has nearly all the flavors. Those from Tetra sure are potent on the nose, especially when fresh, but are pretty bland when vaped.

 

[Jerms]

I haven't read the new advisory. I don't venture far from this thread anymore. I'm content with what I've found for setups an liquids. Anything in there important to read?

Haha, I relate. I've been missing out so much lately on vaping info and ECF in general. As fast as this hobby moves, I doubt catching up is an option. So when I'm plugged into everything again there be a gap in my knowledge during the time I'm tuned out. That's ok, all that knowledge I'm missing will be obsolete shortly anyways.

I peaked into a couple vendors recently, and don't even recognize most of the mechs and rebuildables. I swear a few months ago I new about most that was on the market, now it's all new stuff.

Even worse, I peaked into the RA section and read a post about quartz as wick. Lol, slow down hobby, I just discovered rayon after only using a couple pads of KGD. I'm all for the quick innovation, just hard to keep up when not totally plugged in to the hobby.

 

[Mazinny]

And, use less wicking medium. He practically stuffs everything he builds. Love him though..

yeah no kidding ! it was clearly evident in this video how much he was compressing ( over compressing ) the wicks.

 

[Jerms]

I love VaPer blends. I am starting to think I enjoy them more than cigars by a wide margin. Cigars seem to be much more similar in vape form than analog. The pipe smokes tend to be much more distinguishable in vape form. The also come across with much more pronounced flavor.

Pipe NET are way ahead of cigar NET for my preferences. Way more variety of flavor with extracted pipe tobacco to my taster.

 

[Jerms]

Some thoughts on some recent purchases.

Want2Vape: These for the most part seem very similar to the Mountain Oak juices I had tried. I did not care for those, either. There is a bite and harshness to them that I do not care for. The one exception is CI Cigar, which does not have this harshness, and is incredible and very complex. I will let the Paris, Managua, Louisville and London steep for a few weeks, see if they mellow out some.

Ethervapes: Wow. These seem to be a somewhat less earthy version of NET.com offerings. The notes and the mouth feel are very similar. Very smooth in contrast to the Want2Vape juices I mention above. Pure Burley, Nomad and especially Eclipse were knockouts from first vape. Confederate, while a bit harsher than the other juices, is definitely good - maybe not a re-order, though. I will certainly be trying more of their NET offerings in the future.

Love CI Cigar from W2V! Get The Blond too if you haven't. Similar style, both are extracted from Drew Estate's ACID flavor-infused cigars. Pretty wild and unique flavors.

NETcom did about the same thing as our thread's DIY extracters are doing. Basic pg/vg macerations, hot or cold extracted, of commercial pipe, cig, and cigar tobaccos, sometimes with added flavoring. EV is doing about the same thing. As we know here, that simple process can yield some pretty amazing vapes.

 

[Jerms]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcZjaG9RPZ4&feature=player_embedded

I'm looking forward to watching that tomorrow.

 

[Jerms]

*** ATTENTION RAYON FANATICS ***

Bump your wattage up by the equivalent of around 2W compared to what you were previously using with cotton or otherwise.

If your wick consistency is right, it down right wakes things up to an AMAZING level!

I had 3 KFL's ready for re-wicking because they were kinda BLAH! but all is well now that I've bumped power up from 10W to 12W.

GAIA at 12.5W.. MIND BLOWN!! again..

The other two KFL's were loaded up with Boomers Voodoo Queen and Tatiana Honey cigar. I thought they were gunked up and starting to lose flavour but they are singing again at 12W.

Was already at around 16 watts with a 28ga Kanthal micro; 1 ohm powered by a mech, so didn't have a chance to run into any underpowered problems. Wonder why the difference.. maybe the quicker wicking of rayon doesn't do as well at lower power as cotton.

And, use less wicking medium. He practically stuffs everything he builds. Love him though..

Right? I haven't watched this vid yet, but seeing him wick cotton before I can't believe how much he uses.

I'll also echo the liking Phil Busardo. Great videos; entertaining, funny, and great info. His juice preferences are different than mine and I disagree with plenty of what he says, but that's ok.

 

[Jerms]

Heeeeey! Absolutely nothing I said was meant as criticism. Perhaps the term "harsh" has negative connotations. Perhaps "rough" is better? It really isn't about intensity - for example, W2V CI Cigar I found to be a VERY intense flavor, but it had no "roughness" to it on my palate. One of the reasons I wrote this, and likened W2V to MOV, was that I wanted to perhaps understand what it was about those types of juices that I did not care for. Are they meant to more accurately reflect the analog experience? I don't think this is the case with W2V, as these are cigar extracts as I understand it.

This was an utterly subjective "what I like and don't like", nothing more. I would say the only lessons anybody could possibly take away from anybody's impressions here are:

1. I like NET.com, and if you like NET.com, there is a good chance we have similar taste buds, so you might like other brands that I like.
2. Of course, this statement is about as scientific as astrology or alchemy, so the only real statement is you must try them for yourself, because taste buds in vaping are a hundred times more subjective than taste buds reacting to food or drink.

I order all tobacco flavors in 6mg (or the closest, i.e. NET.com in 5mg). So my impressions should not be related to nicotine content.

W2V NETs are aggressive tobacco vapes. Either from using a higher ratio of extract, less filtered extract, or a combo of both. Makes for a very TOBACCO experience; some of the most aggressive tobaccos around. I think they're going for a more authentic 'smoking' experience; dirty coils be damned.

 

[Dusty_D]

Gotta love the vaping community. Koh Gen Do is out of stock everywhere, even Koh Gen Do Cosmetics Corp. is out of stock and will limit purchases to two packs per customer when they do restock. Get yours before the price doubles.

Lol.. I already have 140 pads of it, along with 160 Organic cotton balls and 499.5 feet of Rayon. I'm set for a couple of vaping lifetimes, I think..

Thanks for the heads-up though.

Did I mention I moved to Sunset Rum last night after the Voodoo Queen ran out?! Needs some steeping, but it's quite nice overall. You tried it yet?

 

[Dusty_D]

Was already at around 16 watts with a 28ga Kanthal micro; 1 ohm powered by a mech, so didn't have a chance to run into any underpowered problems. Wonder why the difference.. maybe the quicker wicking of rayon doesn't do as well at lower power as cotton.



Right? I haven't watched this vid yet, but seeing him wick cotton before I can't believe how much he uses.

I'll also echo the liking Phil Busardo. Great videos; entertaining, funny, and great info. His juice preferences are different than mine and I disagree with plenty of what he says, but that's ok.

I was trying to figure that out too. One guess is that I'm not using the juice that's provided to the coil and as a result it's caking on and burning on there. Raising the power a bit allowed the juice to vaporize efficiently thereby providing a cleaner vape. Kinda went against the grain there a bit, but hey, it worked out well all evening yesterday.

 

[AnthonyB]

Recently I acquired a small order from Walkers Tobacco Alternatives. The vendor of these juices, Ken Walker, is a little unique in that the liquid is sold in its raw extract form and is mixed with nicotine and sold on that basis. Most users vape them straight up but I prefer to mix them in about 33-50% ratios.

These liquids also have the notorious character of being extremely gunky due to them being sold in extract form rather than mixed form so particular types of setups are required to ensure proper management of the gunk. Right now I am sacrificing old 510 atomizers which I then clean in a vodka bath but on the weekend I will make some SS mesh wick and coil setups. Cotton might be the way to go so dry burning can be regularly employed.

I don't know to what degree of filtering Ken uses but given the cigar extracts are 100% VG and the Pipe blends 70% VG I would imagine not much filtering would take place hence the dirtiness of the juice.

Initially these liquids didn't capture me but some steeping has made a difference, a BIG difference in 2 weeks.

Just recently I mixed Walkers La Gloria Cubana with WTA liquid from Aromaejuice. The blend is magic and the flavour of the La Gloria is indeed glorious. Indulgent depth of creamy buttery cigar with sublime notes I cannot describe. There is some nutmeg and an overall cigar goodness. Gunky these juices may be, but the trade off for those willing to brave them is worth the trouble particularly those looking for a well made cigar juice that is rich.

It is really hard to ignore the difference in richness of flavour between Walkers La Gloria Cubana and MVJ's La Gloria Cubana. Both have their niche. One is an all day vape that is kind on equipment but lacking in richness of flavour and the other requires management and maintenance but rewards in depth of flavour.

I am looking forward to testing out the rest now that they appear to have steeped a little more.

I would say these are less gunky than Paris from Want2vape but perhaps on the same gunk level as most Want2Vape liquids. The great thing about them is that they can be filtered and mixed with unflavored liquid juice.

For the record, I would advise anyone considering purchasing Walkers Tobacco Alternatives to hold off until Ken resolves some personal difficulties which he recently revealed on Facebook. His problems are not all that uncommon to what happened to the owner of NET.com so proceed with caution for now.

I have also been vaping 3-Crown from NET.com lately. As much as I would like to say that NET.com's absence isn't so bad and that other players in the market of good quality pipe and cigar extractions have bridged the gap, I can't. Vaping 3-Crowns makes me realize what a great product we have lost. I hope Clay rises like a phoenix and is back in action soon.

While I am in no position to give a detailed and descriptive analysis of the flavour this late at night and right before bed, I would say it kind of has an equivalence to Patriot in that there seems to be a lot going on in this juice. There is a noticable separation and clarity of the leaf and filler from the cigar it came from. I know this is an extraction of an Ashton VSG. A little sweet, crisp, leathery, peppery, a touch of oiliness, an intrigue of flavours in symphony and complexity. Beautiful! I believe a lot of this complexity and exotic flavour comes from the Ecuadorian wrapper.

3-Crown is simply a stunner for a cigar extraction lover like myself. Even better than I remember it 8-9 months ago when I purchased it as a young juice. No doubt, it probably steeped to perfection months ago but I have not put it in my rotation since the early days when I was trying to figure it out.

 

[rdsok]

I was trying to figure that out too. One guess is that I'm not using the juice that's provided to the coil and as a result it's caking on and burning on there. Raising the power a bit allowed the juice to vaporize efficiently thereby providing a cleaner vape. Kinda went against the grain there a bit, but hey, it worked out well all evening yesterday.

While speculating on that subject...

While reading about the issue... I had the thought that it may be from increased cooling of the coils caused by the increase in wicking... I'm just not sure that it accounts for a dirtier vape ( from the caking mentioned ). Usually when I have a coil that has excess juice on it, the vape is just weaker in taste and not dirtier.

 

[Dusty_D]

While speculating on that subject...

While reading about the issue... I had the thought that it may be from increased cooling of the coils caused by the increase in wicking... I'm just not sure that it accounts for a dirtier vape ( from the caking mentioned ). Usually when I have a coil that has excess juice on it, the vape is just weaker in taste and not dirtier.

The flavour was definitely weaker at lower wattage. Jeremy over on the Rayon thread kinda thought the same too. Rayon keeping the coil so wet that it was not getting hot enough to release the full flavour of the juice. The "dirty" part may well have been from the juice itself. Here's the Voodoo Queen coil from yesterday evening after 2.5 - 3 ml of VQ through it.

 

[luceblueboy]

Yesterday, while working at a B&M vape shop, a guy and his fiancee walk in. They have a REO, which we don't sell but instantly recognize, and say they're vaping Deal Breaker. Of course I'm hoping it's the Ahlusion one. It was! Not only that, the guy comes to this thread all the time looking for new NETs!! Finally had to chance to talk with someone that loves real tobacco liquids and share some of mine, of which we don't sell in the store...........

 

[Mr.Mann]

Recently I acquired a small order from Walkers Tobacco Alternatives. The vendor of these juices, Ken Walker, is a little unique in that the liquid is sold in its raw extract form and is mixed with nicotine and sold on that basis. Most users vape them straight up but I prefer to mix them in about 33-50% ratios.

These liquids also have the notorious character of being extremely gunky due to them being sold in extract form rather than mixed form so particular types of setups are required to ensure proper management of the gunk. Right now I am sacrificing old 510 atomizers which I then clean in a vodka bath but on the weekend I will make some SS mesh wick and coil setups. Cotton might be the way to go so dry burning can be regularly employed.

I don't know to what degree of filtering Ken uses but given the cigar extracts are 100% VG and the Pipe blends 70% VG I would imagine not much filtering would take place hence the dirtiness of the juice.

Initially these liquids didn't capture me but some steeping has made a difference, a BIG difference in 2 weeks.

Just recently I mixed Walkers La Gloria Cubana with WTA liquid from Aromaejuice. The blend is magic and the flavour of the La Gloria is indeed glorious. Indulgent depth of creamy buttery cigar with sublime notes I cannot describe. There is some nutmeg and an overall cigar goodness. Gunky these juices may be, but the trade off for those willing to brave them is worth the trouble particularly those looking for a well made cigar juice that is rich.

It is really hard to ignore the difference in richness of flavour between Walkers La Gloria Cubana and MVJ's La Gloria Cubana. Both have their niche. One is an all day vape that is kind on equipment but lacking in richness of flavour and the other requires management and maintenance but rewards in depth of flavour.

I am looking forward to testing out the rest now that they appear to have steeped a little more.

I would say these are less gunky than Paris from Want2vape but perhaps on the same gunk level as most Want2Vape liquids. The great thing about them is that they can be filtered and mixed with unflavored liquid juice.

For the record, I would advise anyone considering purchasing Walkers Tobacco Alternatives to hold off until Ken resolves some personal difficulties which he recently revealed on Facebook. His problems are not all that uncommon to what happened to the owner of NET.com so proceed with caution for now.

I have also been vaping 3-Crown from NET.com lately. As much as I would like to say that NET.com's absence isn't so bad and that other players in the market of good quality pipe and cigar extractions have bridged the gap, I can't. Vaping 3-Crowns makes me realize what a great product we have lost. I hope Clay rises like a phoenix and is back in action soon.

While I am in no position to give a detailed and descriptive analysis of the flavour this late at night and right before bed, I would say it kind of has an equivalence to Patriot in that there seems to be a lot going on in this juice. There is a noticable separation and clarity of the leaf and filler from the cigar it came from. I know this is an extraction of an Ashton VSG. A little sweet, crisp, leathery, peppery, a touch of oiliness, an intrigue of flavours in symphony and complexity. Beautiful! I believe a lot of this complexity and exotic flavour comes from the Ecuadorian wrapper.

3-Crown is simply a stunner for a cigar extraction lover like myself. Even better than I remember it 8-9 months ago when I purchased it as a young juice. No doubt, it probably steeped to perfection months ago but I have not put it in my rotation since the early days when I was trying to figure it out.

This illuminates the whole thing. Thanks, Ant! I have some and friend of mine and I both thought it was just too thick and dark to be actual eliquid in the normal sense. So it is just the extract and nic, but with some solvent from the extraction process? I guess it technically is eliquid, but it sure vapes and acts like just the extract. Yeah, IMO it's Paris on steroids for gunking, but I didn't dilute it any.

 

[Chrisnotes86]

Yesterday, while working at a B&M vape shop, a guy and his fiancee walk in. They have a REO, which we don't sell but instantly recognize, and say they're vaping Deal Breaker. Of course I'm hoping it's the Ahlusion one. It was! Not only that, the guy comes to this thread all the time looking for new NETs!! Finally had to chance to talk with someone that loves real tobacco liquids and share some of mine, of which we don't sell in the store...........

HEY Luceblueboy! Yes it was Deal Maker from Ahlusion. I love it but love Smooth Criminal much more! Danyelle and I had a great time meeting you guys! Thanks for being so friendly and letting us try those delicious NET's! Will stop in again very soon my friend!

 

[Jerms]

The vendor of these juices, Ken Walker, is a little unique in that the liquid is sold in its raw extract form and is mixed with nicotine and sold on that basis.

Wait......... what?

That is a unique combo of not making any sense while also explaining everything.