... I was thinking of buying some Paris to alternate with WalkerT when dripping. You know.. to extend the vape time of WalkerT.
Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux
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... I was thinking of buying some Paris to alternate with WalkerT when dripping. You know.. to extend the vape time of WalkerT.
It's official: This thread is a resource: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...naturally-extracted-tobacco.html#post13713783
Wow I just got my NET.com order a few days ago
and just really bummed because the juice is really good
plus I got coupon code for free 30 ml
but just frustrated with the lack of communication
and the lack of the company taking responsibility for what has gone on
I was not going to order again
But now I see online he has shut of new orders to catch up
and says he will be contacting waiting customers
and hopes to be back in normal buis by August
this make me feel more confident in making a new order in the future
and just really bummed because the juice is really good
plus I got coupon code for free 30 ml
but just frustrated with the lack of communication
and the lack of the company taking responsibility for what has gone on
I was not going to order again
But now I see online he has shut of new orders to catch up
and says he will be contacting waiting customers
and hopes to be back in normal buis by August
this make me feel more confident in making a new order in the future
Well, August is only a week away
It's fantastic to see an official statement and that Clay and co are back on track to recover... a hopefully a brighter future.
This continues to be a real head scratcher…
Anthony, where did you get the notion that you're SUPPOSED to dilute the Walker Texas Ranger sludge? He explicitly states otherwise on his order form…saying that diluting the liquid weakens the flavor. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1kBCidjqNpM_rLRJKLKMOjLcJEAFAId35PmYTHRJQBys/viewform
I don't agree or recommend going high VG and heavy on the extract, but it's obvious he feels strongly about it. Nowhere does he use the words concentrates or extracts. Additionally, it would be a funky business model to tell customers they have to buy higher nic and dilute it down to their preferred levels.
He can be seen vaping his liquids in a Genesis atomizer in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA0kZSjVaeQ
which leads me to believe that perhaps he developed these for a particular style of hardware. I haven't used a Genny in ages so I have no idea if heavier liquids perform better on these set ups. I'd imagine the coils still gunk faster than you can spell M_I_S_S_I_S_S_I_P_P_I.
Yeah, I didn't think it was supposed to be diluted, but it sure looks like it is supposed to be.
Brian, the creator of the River Bottom Fog Sauce line of NETs, has made what I consider a very honorable decision. He uses no additional flavorings in mixing RBFS juices. All the different flavors are provided by whatever single extract is used. This means that in his hybrid NETs---which is to say, natural tobacco eliquids that include other non-tobacco flavors, usually of a sweeter nature, such as caramel, vanilla, or whatever---he doesn't add either synthetic or natural flavorings during the final mixing. They are part of the macerated tobacco extract itself.
I don't know whether Brian seeks out tobacco blends to extract that are cased/topped with the extra flavors he wants, or if he adds flavorings to his macerations to infuse them. Either is possible. Adding flavorings to a maceration is perhaps not a common practice, but it's certainly not rare. If I remember correctly, Ahlusion does this, and other NET vendors may also.
What I've noticed about RBFS hybrids, however Brian may create them, is that the juices usually lead with the tobacco in terms of flavor profile. Any other non-tobacco flavors, and especially the sweeter, dessert flavors, are invariably subtle in RBFS NETs. At least this is true of the RBFS hybrids I have. I won't go so far as call the non-tobacco flavors muted, but they often take a back seat to tobacco in the overall flavor profile.
While I respect this decision, I don't always like it. For instance, in RBFS KillR Y4---Brian's version of an RY4---the caramel and vanilla are so mild that the RY4-ness of the liquid is diminished, to the point where it barely passes muster as a bonafide RY4. In that particular case, the flavors are not unbalanced---meaning too much tobacco and not enough caramel and vanilla---but rather the tobacco itself is downplayed to match the mildness of the non-tobacco flavors. As a result, KillR Y4 doesn't pop with flavor. Oh, it's still a lovely eliquid, but so laid back that it's almost asleep. I can't think of any other RY4 that's as understated and mild, and I've had more than a few RY4s.
Which brings me to Count Caramel, one of the recent additions to the RBFS line, and one that I haven't had. To my way of thinking, the logical comparison to Count Caramel would be Ahlusion Caramel Wild Wood. CWW happens to be one of my favorite retail eliquids of all time, and I know that numerous participants of this thread share my reverent affection for that juice. CWW is not your standard, run-of-the-mill caramel tobacco. What makes CWW so wonderful is the amazing caramel flavor that infuses the entire liquid. It's an almost miraculous hybrid where the natural tobacco augments the center-stage caramel, not the other way around, and yet it's not a TINO, for the tobacco shines right through. It's a unique and incredible caramel flavor made even better by the presence of a clean and tasty natural tobacco.
Personally, I would be thrilled if Count Caramel challenged Caramel Wild Wood or even topped it in scrumptiousness. Wow, that would be something! But I fear that what Count Caramel will deliver is either tobacco with a hint of caramel (the description on the VapingWatch product page even states this) or another KillR Y4, a vape that is pleasant but exceedingly mild overall.
I don't mean to take Brian to task---his NETs are all carefully crafted and of superb quality. But I like the non-tobacco flavors in my NET hybrids to be bold rather than subtle. You know, LARGE FONT rather than small font.
If anyone here has vaped RBFS Count Caramel, I'd appreciate knowing how it stacks up flavor-wise against Ahl Caramel Wild Wood.
I don't know whether Brian seeks out tobacco blends to extract that are cased/topped with the extra flavors he wants, or if he adds flavorings to his macerations to infuse them. Either is possible. Adding flavorings to a maceration is perhaps not a common practice, but it's certainly not rare. If I remember correctly, Ahlusion does this, and other NET vendors may also.
What I've noticed about RBFS hybrids, however Brian may create them, is that the juices usually lead with the tobacco in terms of flavor profile. Any other non-tobacco flavors, and especially the sweeter, dessert flavors, are invariably subtle in RBFS NETs. At least this is true of the RBFS hybrids I have. I won't go so far as call the non-tobacco flavors muted, but they often take a back seat to tobacco in the overall flavor profile.
While I respect this decision, I don't always like it. For instance, in RBFS KillR Y4---Brian's version of an RY4---the caramel and vanilla are so mild that the RY4-ness of the liquid is diminished, to the point where it barely passes muster as a bonafide RY4. In that particular case, the flavors are not unbalanced---meaning too much tobacco and not enough caramel and vanilla---but rather the tobacco itself is downplayed to match the mildness of the non-tobacco flavors. As a result, KillR Y4 doesn't pop with flavor. Oh, it's still a lovely eliquid, but so laid back that it's almost asleep. I can't think of any other RY4 that's as understated and mild, and I've had more than a few RY4s.
Which brings me to Count Caramel, one of the recent additions to the RBFS line, and one that I haven't had. To my way of thinking, the logical comparison to Count Caramel would be Ahlusion Caramel Wild Wood. CWW happens to be one of my favorite retail eliquids of all time, and I know that numerous participants of this thread share my reverent affection for that juice. CWW is not your standard, run-of-the-mill caramel tobacco. What makes CWW so wonderful is the amazing caramel flavor that infuses the entire liquid. It's an almost miraculous hybrid where the natural tobacco augments the center-stage caramel, not the other way around, and yet it's not a TINO, for the tobacco shines right through. It's a unique and incredible caramel flavor made even better by the presence of a clean and tasty natural tobacco.
Personally, I would be thrilled if Count Caramel challenged Caramel Wild Wood or even topped it in scrumptiousness. Wow, that would be something! But I fear that what Count Caramel will deliver is either tobacco with a hint of caramel (the description on the VapingWatch product page even states this) or another KillR Y4, a vape that is pleasant but exceedingly mild overall.
I don't mean to take Brian to task---his NETs are all carefully crafted and of superb quality. But I like the non-tobacco flavors in my NET hybrids to be bold rather than subtle. You know, LARGE FONT rather than small font.
If anyone here has vaped RBFS Count Caramel, I'd appreciate knowing how it stacks up flavor-wise against Ahl Caramel Wild Wood.
I'm so backed up on trying extracts from the other folks I trade with, it's getting ridiculous. Usually I'll mix them as I get them but the number of fully steeped juices on my shelf has run out of room. I'm still tasting stuff I got three or four months ago. I haven't gotten around to my Sunset Rum as I'm vaping Bill's. It's boiled down to a two or two and a half month process of extracting to fully steeped juice.
I'm out of bottles until an recent order arrives. Most of my time is spent on making a decent vape from varietals. It takes a lot of base liquids and bottles from which most of the juice is thrown away due to, " Woah, I don't think so " attributes. I've been at it close to eight months and only come up with four possibles. Most of my experiments with varietals wind up tasting like a poor man's copy of something you get from purchased pipe tobacco's. I'm looking for something different. A really good Burley with rum, brandy or bourbon would be the ticket. It's a slog but I'm getting there.
Thanks for the heads-up though.
Did I mention I moved to Sunset Rum last night after the Voodoo Queen ran out?! Needs some steeping, but it's quite nice overall. You tried it yet?[/QUOTE]
I'm out of bottles until an recent order arrives. Most of my time is spent on making a decent vape from varietals. It takes a lot of base liquids and bottles from which most of the juice is thrown away due to, " Woah, I don't think so " attributes. I've been at it close to eight months and only come up with four possibles. Most of my experiments with varietals wind up tasting like a poor man's copy of something you get from purchased pipe tobacco's. I'm looking for something different. A really good Burley with rum, brandy or bourbon would be the ticket. It's a slog but I'm getting there.
Thanks for the heads-up though.
Did I mention I moved to Sunset Rum last night after the Voodoo Queen ran out?! Needs some steeping, but it's quite nice overall. You tried it yet?[/QUOTE]
Hey Anthony, have you tried cleaning your 510 coils with baking soda and vinegar. I use them on my hh357's and 510's. A couple of passes and a rinse really takes away most of the crustiness and a quick burn makes them ready to go again.
OpenSource RY4 is TA-based, which means that while it may reside in Natural Tobacco Town, it lives on the wrong side of the tracks and probably won't get invited to the high school prom. And no, no one here or on the RY4 Roundup thread has tried OpenSource RY4, much less discussed or reviewed it. If you get some, be sure to tell us about it on the RY4 thread (or here, if you like).
Bill, I wish I had enough Count Caramel to send you, but I just looked in my bottle and the only liquid left is in the dropper! I don't even remember vaping that much (though I did PIF some). Count Caramel has a wonderfully tasty caramel punch for a non-added flavoring and to my palate is not a mere "hint" of caramel, but it's still not the high-definition caramel-y goodness of CWW. I would recommend Caramel Wild Wood to anyone where as Count Caramel is a recommendation for those in this thread. If CWW wasn't out there Count Caramel would be in my book as the top dog for a caramel tobacco, but since Caramel Wild Wood is out there I don't think there are any challengers that could best it -- but Count Caramel would be the only one with a shot, even if a long shot.
Thanks, that is very useful info! Knowing that Ethervapes and NET.com are made in a similar way puts a bit of logic into a very subjective topic. But what is it that W2V or MOV do that is different than NET.com or EV? They all seem to be extracted using some form of maceration, either cold or heat, and since I liked juices of each of these processes from NET.com, I don't think that is the differentiator. Is it the tobacco they use?
The fact that I liked even one juice from a vendor means I will probably be trying out others at some point in the future, so W2V Blond is on my must-try list now.
kat,
I wonder about that, too. I understand that HHV and some Ahlusion NETs might taste and feel different, since the extracts are steam-distilled. But, as far as I know, all the vendors in question use simple-soak PG/VG macerations. As a home extractor, my experience is that heat-assisted shorter-steep macerations and cold-processed room-temperature long-steep macerations produce extracts that may have subtle differences, but are in general much more similar than different in taste and feel.
Filtering plays a role in the flavor/performance counterbalance, of course, as does mix percentage of the extracts and addition of other flavorings, but I'm not sure that those factors account for the distinctive differences in overall vaping experience between the various vendors' NETs.
My best guess is that whatever produces the characteristic differences would probably be obvious (rather than mysterious) if we knew how each vendor makes their juices, but I'm not privy to that information. Vendors don't invite us into their production facilities to watch extracts being made and juices being mixed.
W2V and MOV are more secretive in their process. I don't know if they use different techniques for macerations, or if they also employ non-maceration techniques. Like I mentioned before, W2V probably uses less filtered and/or more tobacco extract to create more potent NETs, and I may have heard they use TA as a secret ingredient in some of the NETs (don't quote me on that). My gut feeling though is, both go further than just "simple macerations". Tobacco selection is big part of it too.
Along with The Blond from W2V, two other vendors offer NETs of the ACID Blondie cigar. NETcoms H+ Yellow Mane is the cheapest, and probably pretty identical to The Blond in flavor. RBFS's Dagwood's Wife is Trippin' is more expensive, but has better clarity of flavor notes and is cleaner to vape. River Bottom has the better blondie, but W2V's The Blond is still pretty great if price is a factor.
Watched Phil B's wick video..
Not too much surprises. He noticed things that I've noticed too. Organic cotton having an off flavor at first, and just overall not being that great. KGD and rayon offering clean flavor immediately, pure flavor, and quick wicking action. Rayon offering a little quicker switch when changing flavors and gunking a little slower than KGD.
I have found more of a flavor difference between rayon and KGD than he reported. Rayon offers a subtle, but still noticable boost for many juices I've tried. My guess is he was using too much rayon which negated that effect. I overstuffed my KFL with rayon and while it performed great and wicked well, and the flavor was good, that flavor wasn't as saturated and potent when using less wick. Either way, I think the flavor differences aren't really that noteworthy overall. One may work better than the other depending on the juice and someone's personal preferences, but they both provide amazing flavor.
Like Phil, I also don't notice a difference in throat hit, vapor production, or nic delivery between the two, though some have reported that they do.
One bonus to KGD he didn't report on is it's the easiest and quickest to wick, and best at providing repeatable results without practice. KGD and CCr means there's two pretty fantastic options for wicking that in my opinion are heads above organic cotton, sterile rolled cotton, and silica. KGD for those like John and others who get a sore throat from CCr, and CCr for those like Ray and others who always notice a cotton taste with any cotton.
Not too much surprises. He noticed things that I've noticed too. Organic cotton having an off flavor at first, and just overall not being that great. KGD and rayon offering clean flavor immediately, pure flavor, and quick wicking action. Rayon offering a little quicker switch when changing flavors and gunking a little slower than KGD.
I have found more of a flavor difference between rayon and KGD than he reported. Rayon offers a subtle, but still noticable boost for many juices I've tried. My guess is he was using too much rayon which negated that effect. I overstuffed my KFL with rayon and while it performed great and wicked well, and the flavor was good, that flavor wasn't as saturated and potent when using less wick. Either way, I think the flavor differences aren't really that noteworthy overall. One may work better than the other depending on the juice and someone's personal preferences, but they both provide amazing flavor.
Like Phil, I also don't notice a difference in throat hit, vapor production, or nic delivery between the two, though some have reported that they do.
One bonus to KGD he didn't report on is it's the easiest and quickest to wick, and best at providing repeatable results without practice. KGD and CCr means there's two pretty fantastic options for wicking that in my opinion are heads above organic cotton, sterile rolled cotton, and silica. KGD for those like John and others who get a sore throat from CCr, and CCr for those like Ray and others who always notice a cotton taste with any cotton.
I am very happy to read this news.
I am running abysmally low on Sun Cured Turkish and have resorted to careful rationing of everything NETcom.- Status
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