Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

[regal55]

i have experimented a lot, with all kinds of coils. the simple tensioned micro coil is probably the most efficient build, electonically. fast heat up, consistent, even heat across the coil. i tend to vape at 9-10 watts though. i generally use a 10 wrap 29g kanthal, 2.0 mm at 1.9 to 2.0 ohms on my pt's and a 11wrap 28g kanthal, 1.6 mm at 1.4 to 1.5 ohms on my kay/tai's. don't have too much experience with drippers. i have a trident and a patriot clone that i use only for initial tasting.

an evenly spaced non contact coil probably works better with NET's though. definitely longer vape time on the dirtier nets, a lot longer based on my short amount of time experimenting !

Ya.. I built one awhile back and can get at least 2 full KFL tanks out of a wick...

View attachment 360930

Your no pinch gap method has finally allowed me to enjoy my KFL clones. Right now I have an extraction Net of Captain Black Dark filled in my KFL and I have the wattage up to 13W with my Sigelei 30W. The taste is absolutely wonderful and I am confident enough in the build to actually leave the house with it.

I still prefer my brass monkey drippers after dinner at home but I can't thank you enough for sharing thing technique.

Has anyone else tried This Captain black Cav? Its somewhat similar to RBFS Caven Fever, a little better in some ways a little worse in other. But similar.

Let's ignore the obvious health benefits of vaping versus smoking. In my opinion, vaping isn't just an alternate method of smoking, it's a superior method. People fear they will have to trade some pleasure and satisfaction if they switch to vaping. I tell them what happened to me; I just did both until I realised I would prefer to vape. I would like to give myself credit by saying I quit smoking, but truth is I gave up nothing and gained plenty.

My guess is vaping will make smoking almost obsolete, though have no idea how long it will take. I still smoke the occasional cig. Rarely. Not because I need to or really want to, just because I can. A remnant of a previous dirty habit.

You have such good use of the english language, done right vaping definitely is a revolutionary step up from archaic cigarettes.

 

[clnire]

I was bumping around the interwebz and found this article about the Cornell & Diehl pipe tobacco company. I had no idea that they were organic or that the current owner saved the brand from destruction.
WNC MAGAZINE | ASHEVILLE AND WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA'S LIFESTYLE MAGAZINE

It is weird. When I was a smoker stories like this didn't interest me at all. Now I know more about tobacco and companies than ever did before.

Me too Mike. All I ever smoked were Marlboro light/ultra lights. I never thought I would manage to quit smoking completely (as of Dec 15, 2012) but that would enjoy learning and trying different tobaccos. Quite a different and most enjoyable experience. And sharing with friends is the best!

 

[MikeNice81]

Spending a little time with MFT's Padron 1926. I'm not sure which 1926 this is. Padron has four 1926 lines and each has two wrapper options. So, there is a bit of head scratching going on. How do I know all of this about the Padron 1926?

I rewicked before bed last night. Afterwards, I decided to try something different and run the entire line of MFT juices on hand. I grabbed the Padron 1926 and filled my Evod 2. "Never heard of this. I hope it is decent." So with a bit of trepidation (my sinuses were still a bit shot from the Nub I smoked) I took my first big puff. It was all big earth and heavy tobacco with a secondary note of spice and maybe a tertiary note of wood. It stood up and pronounced, "I am a cigar." This is a very classic cigar. This isn't a spice bomb and it isn't on the modern bandwagon of trying to hard for complexity or ultimate punch your teeth out flavors. This is very classic earth, tobacco, spice, and wood with an occasional hint of chocolaty or cocoa. That isn't to say bland or boring. That is to say, a masterfully crafted rendition of old school cigar making with lots of body and flavor.

I woke up this morning and tried it again. This first thought was, "yep this is going back in the steep box." I am hiding this little gem away because I want to get the full potential. It is still a big beautiful cigar taste. When somebody says, "I want a manly cigar," this is the flavor profile that jumps to mind.

As the tank dwindles down a bit the earth and tobacco are stepping back some and the spice is coming forward with a creamy note that balances it out. The tobacco is still there but it tastes lighter. That may sound weird, but I've noticed that some of the better cigar juices do kind of evolve the way a real cigar does. Why? I don't know. It just happens and seems to be a factor of coil age, wick age, drink choice, food choice, and/or olfactory fatigue. Regardless of why, it happens. The great thing about the Padron 1926 is that it changes without going flat or becoming monotone. It just says, "here let me show you this cool feature you haven't seen."

So, how do I know so much about the Padron 1926 line of cigars? As soon as I made my first cup of coffee, and before I ate breakfast, I sat down and started searching for Padron 1926. I was looking for this stick because I was considering ordering one and rearranging my extraction plans. It is that good, in my opinion. However, the confusion put me off. Then I noticed the price and it definitely went to the back burner. The 1926 can cost anywhere from $11.20 for the cheapest Corona. Many of the sticks run into the $19 - $30 range. This isn't your run of the mill $8 stick and it shows. This is a super premium treat and I greatly appreciate MFT sharing this expensive indulgence with me.

 

[billherbst]

On average, how much PG will be needed to soak a Robusto in the 5x54 range? There are a couple I want to extract, but that is the smallest size available. I'm thinking 120ml might not do the trick.

I'm not well-versed on cigar sizes, so 5x54 is greek to me. In general, 120-150ml of PG/VG solvent should be fine with any cigar I've ever seen. If it's smaller, you could go down to 100ml, but even a humongous Churchill won't need more than 150ml. Standard practice in the home extractor club is to use enough liquid to completely cover the tobacco in whatever jar you use, then add some more on top of that so you can see the liquid to monitor its color change during the maceration steep.

 

[Kataphraktos]

Nothing but NETs here too.. I had a couple bottles of Tribeca that I bought off somebody locally because I just wanted that Tribeca itch scratched. It was good while it lasted. All NETs all the way!!

Wait.. I lie! I do have around 80ml of Bobas left around here somewhere, if I can only find it! It's probably slithering around in the dark somewhere.

Wait, Boba's ain't a NET?

 

[Dusty_D]

Wait, Boba's ain't a NET?

 

[billherbst]

Times a'wastin dude.

OK, Boomer, your wish is, well, you know...

In the two jpgs below, the big drawer is the current stock of my own extracts, minus a couple that aren't in the drawer. All those Boston bottles are either 2oz or 4oz.

The two smaller drawers are the extracts I've gotten in swaps from you, Johni, Dustmight, MFToms, and clnire. All those bottles are from 5ml to 15ml.

I figure I have enough natural tobacco extracts to make about 18 liters of DIY NETs. Overkill, for sure, but very nice to have. And inexpensive, too.

​

 

[Kataphraktos]

I filled up an Origen with GeJ Analog Tobacco. This is one of the GeJs I did not care for on first vape, as it reminded me too much of an analog (yes, yes, I know, what was I expecting).

This time, I tried to go in with an attitude adjustment. Stop disliking because it is not what I expect or desire, just try to appreciate it for what it is. And I discovered that it may be the closest thing I've tried to an actual analog. The aftertaste that it leaves on the roof of my mouth is exactly that horrid/awesome analog acidic bite that I remember from a Marlboro. Pretty cool.

 

[MikeNice81]

OK, Boomer, your wish is, well, you know...

In the two jpgs below, the big drawer is the current stock of my own extracts, minus a couple that aren't in the drawer. All those Boston bottles are either 2oz or 4oz.

The two smaller drawers are the extracts I've gotten in swaps from you, Johni, Dustmight, MFToms, and clnire. All those bottles are from 5ml to 15ml.

I figure I have enough natural tobacco extracts to make about 18 liters of DIY NETs. Overkill, for sure, but very nice to have. And inexpensive, too.

View attachment 361244View attachment 361242​

Okay, It looks like I might have to search harder to find something you guys aren't already kicking around. I might have to post my list just in hopes that you guys can knock a few off. lol

Actually here is a partial list of stuff I hope to extract. This is just the cigar side.
CAO Escaparate Costa Rica
CAO Escaparate Ecuador
Recluse Draconian Sidewinder
Recluse OTG
Montecristo Afrique
Intemperance BA XXI
Nomad Classic
Nomad S-307
Nomad Connecticut Fuerte
Tabacalera Zapata
Room 101 Darumba
Paul Stulac Black Midnight Fire
Paul Stulac White Blinding Light
My Uzi Weighs A Ton Kentucky Fired

I told you guys I had been spending some time searching and reading. I will be starting a cold soak on the Room 101 San Andres next week.

 

[billherbst]

Okay, It looks like I might have to search harder to find something you guys aren't already kicking around. I might have to post my list just in hopes that you guys can knock a few off. lol

Hey Mike,

Those of us in the burgeoning club of home extractors sometimes extract the same tobaccos. Not only is that not a problem, it's great fun to then swap extracts and compare the results of different maceration/extraction techniques and/or defferent creative artists (ahem, us). So go right ahead and extract whatever cigar, pipe blend, or cig/RYO tobacco catches your fancy.

It's all good.

 

[sandman97289]

That day has come. Yep, that day. The day I decided I am strictly and absolutely a vaper only.

I had the bright idea to go out and buy a cigar to celebrate my upcoming birthday. I bought a Nub Cameroon 460 Tubo. I was so exited to get home and light that bad boy up. I was feeling like a kid at Christmas. Yeah, the expectations did not meet reality. I started puffing and thought, this tastes pretty nasty. I decided it must just be me. I loved MFT's Nub Cameroon extract. So, it had to be me. I made it through the first third and it wasn't getting much better. By the time I hit the halfway point I had to throw it out. I no longer enjoy analog cigars at all.

What I'm about to say next may sound like sacrilege to some. I think our net juices are much closer to the truth of the tobacco than smoking them. I know that somebody's jaw just hit the floor. Think about it though, we are pulling the flavor directly out of the leaf and then heating the concentrated flavor to release the aroma and taste. When you light a cigar you are burning away the flavor with fire. You are completely changing the composition of the leaf in attempts to extract a tiny bit of flavor through smoke. It is really kind of archaic in comparison.

With vaping the tobacco flavor comes through, but so do those nuances we seek out in the tobacco. The spice, nuts, bread, sweetness, they are all there and they aren't fighting through a wall of smoke and super heated air. Now, vaping doesn't replicate the analog experience at all. However, I would say it replicates the true taste much better than smoking. I'll take a Cohiba extracted in PG over the real deal any day, now.

Had a similar experience yesterday while playing golf with a few buddies. My DNA30 mod battery got discharged around the 16th hole and I decided to take a puff of a cigarette that my friend was smoking, my first puff in 8 months. The only thing that came to my mind was "eww, this is nasty, how did I ever like this stuff". Needless to say I rushed through the final holes and ran back to my car where I put the mod back on charge and vaped all the way back home.

 

[sandman97289]

This week I extracted (heat macerated) my first batch of Mississippi River. This was after I was totally swooned by it when I tried Dust's extract and decided that I wanted to try one on my own. The Latakia is very prevalent right now. I'm hoping that with some steeping the Oriental, Perique and Virginia will come through. From your guys experience does that ever happen, that Latakia takes a back step and the other tobaccos come forward?

 

[clnire]

Sandman, I don't know specifically about the Latakia in your Mississippi, but I do know from my limited experience with retail NETs and now home extractions that I am often amazed how the flavors will develop, meld, or suddenly stand out over time and also the equipment I am vaping it with. I use mostly rebuilt and wicked with cotton, KGD or now CC evod style "tanks" that the flavors are much more pronounced than factory coils/ silica and that I am learning to recognize different nuances I never knew existed before.

 

[MikeNice81]

Sandman, I don't know specifically about the Latakia in your Mississippi, but I do know from my limited experience with retail NETs and now home extractions that I am often amazed how the flavors will develop, meld, or suddenly stand out over time and also the equipment I am vaping it with. I use mostly rebuilt and wicked with cotton, KGD or now CC evod style "tanks" that the flavors are much more pronounced than factory coils/ silica and that I am learning to recognize different nuances I never knew existed before.

Also the device being used can change the flavor. I've posted about the differences in flavor that occurs switching from my Evod battery to the MVP 2. Over time I've come to prefer pipe extracts on the Evod and cigars on the MVP 2.

 

[MikeNice81]

Boomer's Orlik mixed at 17% is good enough to vape after three days of steeping. Since I have 89ml mixed, I'll have plenty of opportunities to judge it's evolution.

 

[sandman97289]

Yeah I extracted an Orlik as well and it's heavenly on my Stillare even after 3 days. My drippers are usually around 25 watts with cotton and around 1 ohm. I guess the Mississippi River just needs more time to round.

 

[MikeNice81]

Hey Mike,

Those of us in the burgeoning club of home extractors sometimes extract the same tobaccos. Not only is that not a problem, it's great fun to then swap extracts and compare the results of different maceration/extraction techniques and/or defferent creative artists (ahem, us). So go right ahead and extract whatever cigar, pipe blend, or cig/RYO tobacco catches your fancy.

It's all good.

I understand that. My thought process is pretty simple. I want to inject new flavors and profiles into the system. Somebody has to be the "new idea" guy. I am aiming to be that guy. All of the net vendors and some the extractors seem to be following the same path. I want to shake it up a little bit while staying inside of the traditional parameters. I haven't seen anybody extract a cigar man from mostly African tobacco. I haven't seen anybody doing a San Andres wrapped cigar or a pipe tobacco infused cigar. There are a lot of guys out there doing interesting things in the tobacco world. We should be embracing that in the net world. Instead, I see a lot of the same things (ideas and tobaccos) going around and around. I just want to spice things up a little bit.

That isn't meant to belittle the work and effort put in by the people in the community. There has been a lot of work and dedication put into the field. I just want to contribute something that stands out and makes an impression. It is my way of giving back to those that have given so much.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I understand that. My thought process is pretty simple. I want to inject new flavors and profiles into the system. Somebody has to be the "new idea" guy. I am aiming to be that guy. All of the net vendors and some the extractors seem to be following the same path. I want to shake it up a little bit while staying inside of the traditional parameters. I haven't seen anybody extract a cigar man from mostly African tobacco. I haven't seen anybody doing a San Andres wrapped cigar or a pipe tobacco infused cigar. There are a lot of guys out there doing interesting things in the tobacco world. We should be embracing that in the net world. Instead, I see a lot of the same things (ideas and tobaccos) going around and around. I just want to spice things up a little bit.

That isn't meant to belittle the work and effort put in by the people in the community. There has been a lot of work and dedication put into the field. I just want to contribute something that stands out and makes an impression. It is my way of giving back to those that have given so much.

A lot of times it may seem one way, or it may even be that way, but I think it is for a reason. I know Brian, Nick and Donley have extracted waaaaaaay more than we could ever possibly imagine, but the reasons all those other more "exotic" blends don't pan out is for reasons other than a lack of trying. Sometimes those bends only translate when smoked. But by all means, shoot for the stars and let us know what works -- you may just "discover" something.

 

[clnire]

I understand that. My thought process is pretty simple. I want to inject new flavors and profiles into the system. Somebody has to be the "new idea" guy. I am aiming to be that guy. All of the net vendors and some the extractors seem to be following the same path. I want to shake it up a little bit while staying inside of the traditional parameters. I haven't seen anybody extract a cigar man from mostly African tobacco. I haven't seen anybody doing a San Andres wrapped cigar or a pipe tobacco infused cigar. There are a lot of guys out there doing interesting things in the tobacco world. We should be embracing that in the net world. Instead, I see a lot of the same things (ideas and tobaccos) going around and around. I just want to spice things up a little bit.

That isn't meant to belittle the work and effort put in by the people in the community. There has been a lot of work and dedication put into the field. I just want to contribute something that stands out and makes an impression. It is my way of giving back to those that have given so much.

That is why I have selected the tobaccos I have. Yes, some "standardization", but slightly different. It is so much fun to trade and try different flavors, it is nice to be able to offer something a little different.

On the cigar note - I have been enjoying boomer's Tatiana Vanilla today. First cigar vape I have had. Yes, I seem to be kind of a vanilla freak. This is so different than the pipe tobaccos; I know it is because of different tobacco, not your standard burley, virginia, cavendish, latakia, perique, etc. Maybe that is why it is so fascinating to me. It is smooth, flavorful, and, well, most excellent! Kudos boomer! Can't wait to try the cigars I got from Bill. Steep away my precious!

 

[MikeNice81]

A lot of times it may seem one way, or it may even be that way, but I think it is for a reason. I know Brian, Nick and Donley have extracted waaaaaaay more than we could ever possibly imagine, but the reasons all those other more "exotic" blends don't pan out is for reasons other than a lack of trying. Sometimes those bends only translate when smoked. But by all means, shoot for the stars and let us know what works -- you may just "discover" something.

I'm sure that is a part of it. There are somethings that will never translate. However, in a business if you extract something different that blows your mind, you have to worry about the profit margin and how many units you can move. Experimentation is naturally limited to some degree. When all you're worried about is your tongue and maybe a dozen others, that changes. If it doesn't float their boat you're out $0.60 plus shipping. If Diane produces a flop she is out a lot more than that. With an even smaller vendor it can be more devastating.

Plus, we have tradition to deal with. If you have 2,000 Honduran/Dominican cigars on the table and ten Honduran/Dominican/ San Andrean/Peruvian cigars, you choose a traditional one to sell because it has a built in customer base.

For Diane to step out and sell Drew Estate pipe tobacco was a huge gamble. Yes, Drew Estate is known and Aromatic pipe blends are nothing new. On the flip side, nobody else is doing it, and many people are completely unaware that Drew Estate makes pipe tobacco. The fan of one doesn't necessarily know the other. To release that before the Davidoff or H&H blends was even more risky. There aren't many people taking even that amount of risk in what they are extracting to sell. How many variations on the Acid Blondie do we have now? Yet she was the first to put their pipe tobacco out there.

So few vendors are willing to take even that kind of calculated risk that I find it impossible to believe all of these other things have been left out of the market place because the idea doesn't work. We also have to remember that a lot of these NET guys that we like were serious tobacco guys (and maybe woman) before hand. So, they developed a personal profile that biases which direction their lines run. For me, I've always been adventurous with food and tobacco. So, taking a wild swing on something new is a thrill. I never would have imagined I would like a heavy Latakia English blend, but in vaping I do. I never tried a Va/Per blend before Boomer's Orlik. I just jumped for it and loved it. So, for me it is all about the experience and relish the essence of what the plant has to offer.