Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

[MikeNice81]

No real recommendation for a home Net maker to produce a full flavored perique, maybe you should stick to popcorn pictures.

As far as $25k, that is a small investment if you are upstarting a large volume net business. Have you ever seen an estimate from a stainless steel pipe fitter?

Use a straight blending perique and less solvent. Then flavor the other extract with it sparingly. I didn't know that I had to spell it out after I put the info right there.

If you were following along, you would realize the Boomer method of less is more works really well for getting high flavor density. It is obvious that you don't pay attention to the thread or other DIY threads. If you did you would realize that Virginias are high sugar content, and many people here are getting good results from Virginia and Perique. Instead of reading back or asking humbly for advice you come in making patently false declarative statements and posting some gibberish that sounds like a half baked conspiracy theory about perique.

Mister Chemical Engineer, remember this, Virginia is high in sugar content. If you're cooking it too hot or too long the sugar will make simple syrup and destroy your extract. That comes from taking the most basic amount of time to understand the substance you are working with.

As far as vacuum filtering, you remind me of the record executives I use to work with. "We have to rent this studio because it has a 96 channel SSL board." Nope, All I needed was 16 channels of outboard API preamps and my Pro Tools interface. The same with vacuum filtering. You don't need to spend a lot of money. They have kits for $1,200 that will do enough to satisfy the needs of most net vendors. Once you filter 2,000 ml of a particular extract you can make about 10 liters of vape. It takes a hellish amount of 30ml bottles to use that up.

 

[MikeNice81]

I still want to try out MvJ's take on the Balkan. Any testers about?

I tried it out a couple of days ago. At about six weeks it is pretty good. On a Japanese cotton wick it was a mild to medium flavor. It had a nice smoky Latakia that was dialed back from full campfire. The Virginia and oriental give it a nice round body with hints of floral sweetness that dance in and out. There isn't a whole lot of complexity to it. For some reason I envision the flavor profile as a nice gentle rolling hill with a small bubble shaped peak in the middle.

It is a good early morning or pre-bed vape. It lacks the complexity or depth to keep me interested all day.

 

[NotSoMini]

Brobdingnagian I am still waiting for shipping notices for my two orders from NETcom. I generally do cold "mash" unless not offered. I tried Pumpkin Pie earlier this year. After steeping for a couple of weeks the Pumpkin Pie was very much in the forefront so I steeped it probably for two months and liked it much better as the Pumpkin melded in. The blackberry in Blackberry Burley is really delicious (I think I added extra blackberry). Having tried several fire cured burleys I have decided this is not for me so I am hoping Clay will substitute air cured for the fire on one of my pending orders.

 

[Jerms]

Can Real Extracts, LLC be added to the list of vendors on the first page?

I second this; Dusty, make an edit please?

Browsing their site right now. I see they are an ECF registered supplier, which is always nice. Your description of Cowboy and Hump make them sound right up my ally.

They also have... NETeas! Darjeeling! I'd like to try the Jasmine and Earl Grey too. It's a shame about the price though. $30 for 30ml is asking a lot, and really ups the expectations. Hope they offer multiple sales, smaller bottles, or lower their price.

 

[Skeebo]

One more post about my Veritas and I'll stop going off topic.. at least for tonight lol. I didn't like having the long positive leg being bare, as I know a long unwicked lead can get pretty hot, especially when not using a compressed coil, which can effect the flavor. So as I was working some from the tail up there I thought screw it, I'll just add another wick like RiP did up top. Now I'm really getting away from my comfort zone, but I gotta say, the flavor is just slammin' now. Lots of wick going on, not great for switching flavors, but I normally have a couple mods going anyways.

I should have had the legs going over-under the opposite way by wrapping in the other direction or using the other negative screw, but that'll wait until next build because I'm going to quit while I'm ahead and enjoy this as is for a while.

You might have posted about this earlier, and I hope I don't offend by asking-- is that a genuine Veritas? The only reason I ask is because I've been checking some clones out lately and the ones I've looked at seemed a bit off.

 

[Jerms]

You might have posted about this earlier, and I hope I don't offend by asking-- is that a genuine Veritas? The only reason I ask is because I've been checking some clones out lately and the ones I've looked at seemed a bit off.

No worries; no offence here. Not authentic, it's a Tobeco Veritas clone from 101Vape for $14.99.

 

[Skeebo]

Cool, thanks man!

 

[MikeNice81]

A little information for people unfamiliar with the different cigar wrappers. This can also carry over to some binders. IT may help you understand what to expect when you're perusing the thousands of options out there.

Wrappers - The Cigarbox

 

[Brobdingnagian]

Brobdingnagian I am still waiting for shipping notices for my two orders from NETcom. I generally do cold "mash" unless not offered. I tried Pumpkin Pie earlier this year. After steeping for a couple of weeks the Pumpkin Pie was very much in the forefront so I steeped it probably for two months and liked it much better as the Pumpkin melded in. The blackberry in Blackberry Burley is really delicious (I think I added extra blackberry). Having tried several fire cured burleys I have decided this is not for me so I am hoping Clay will substitute air cured for the fire on one of my pending orders.

If you don't mind me asking, when was your order date?

Mine was:

placed 05/09/2014 at 06:12PM.

I've tried some FCB in the past, I think.

IIRC GeJ stocks a fire cured burley?? Not really sure if it's burley or some other blend offhand.

It wasn't really for me. I do, however, enjoy perique and latakia immensely.

....even though I used to enjoy Bugler analogs, the 'Fire Cured' variations have really never tickled my fancy.

That being said, I wasn't using a KFL or KGD Cotton at the time; I was using factory Kanger heads.

KGD in a microcoil, double-twisted (this twist will fit in an EVOD/PT. Recommend you crimp some kind of NR wire to the tails of the kanthal, or it will pretty much decimate the center post insulator) or triple-twisted 32AWG (better for KFL clones or other RBA, specifically if you want low Ω with multiple wraps. I've tried triple-twist 32AWG in an EVOD; not only did a 1.5Ω 9-10 wrap coil barely fit, the center-post insulator was pretty much beat up after I removed the coil after several months); KGD cotton completely blasts the factory heads out of the water.

I should have some EVOD's arriving today. Those will also be wicked with KGD. May take a little practice to get the density right on those guys.

No worries; no offence here. Not authentic, it's a Tobeco Veritas clone from 101Vape for $14.99.

See, I knew I should have waited before getting another one of those Plume Veils. Hopefully they're worth it.

You oughta call the wick done in the Veritas a "Horseshoe Wick", because that's exactly what it looks like.

A gargantuan wick on top of a coil: almost like an EVOD's 'flavor wick'; except the one in the Veritas probably actually makes the flavor better.

Am I seeing NR-R-NR wire on that set-up, or are my eyes just really tired from getting 4 hours of sleep? I can't tell.


EDIT: It showed up!
I was going to post a picture from my Potato v2.0 camera, but unfortunately it's apparently too big for the page.

At any rate, I got some 12's and 20's.

[15ml] Pumpkin Pie, [15ml] Hot Chocolate, [15ml] Coventry (12mg), [15ml] Dover Court, [30ml] Black Cavendish (12mg), [60ml] Bombay, and samples of:

Blackberry Burley, Fire-Cured Burley, Gold, Chris' Blend, and Smoked Latakia.
(these are all 12's)

On the included order invoice sheet, Clay recommends mixing the FCB with the Smoked Latakia.

I do just that, but first.... time for a couple drops of Bombay. I've been going through withdrawl from this stuff for far too long.

For those interested, the Mix Date is 7/20/2014.

This implies they have a lot of orders mixed up, and are in the process of packaging and shipping out as many as possible.

It was like playing a small puzzle game (which I enjoy) finding where the tape began and ended over the bottles' bubble wrap, but I rushed to open the Bombay and kinda mangled the wrap in the process.

However, all bottles arrived safe and sound.

I would normally tell you that I'm headed to Shpongleland, but I think I'll just visit Bombay for a little while.

 

[Jerms]

A gargantuan wick on top of a coil: almost like an EVOD's 'flavor wick'; except the one in the Veritas probably actually makes the flavor better.

Am I seeing NR-R-NR wire on that set-up, or are my eyes just really tired from getting 4 hours of sleep? I can't tell.

I took the top wick out, vaped Fab & Burley a bit, then added another top wick and vaped a bit, and in this case with this build, yep, it's giving better flavor and a better vape with the 'flavor wick'.

Nope, no NR wire. The reason I even considered adding the extra wick is because of the large leg of resistance wire to the positive post that I wanted to keep from getting hot. Compressed coils do a good job of keeping the heat at the coil when using long legs, but since the wraps are spaced here I didn't like having a long hot leg (normally I'm a fan of long hot legs, but that's a different subject).

I really agree with RiP that this Veritas isn't a beginners rebuildable. It's really been a pain in my, ummm, tuchas. Most atties are much simpler to build on and get working well.

Dripping the last of my F&B. Not my fav RBFS, but still a really solid vape that I've been enjoying immensely, the last couple days especially. I think it's going to be a RBFS week for me.

 

[Big Juicy]

I'm a big fan of the STP CAO Italia. For a good Maduro try the 5 Vegas Cask Strength and Alec Bradley. If you want something smoother try the Garo Double Habano. Diane really has some extremely good cigars chosen for her line up. The only one that fell a little flat for me was the Ramon Bueso. I didn't get to let it steep though. So, maybe the STP version is better. I know the four month old Italia was well beyond what I expected after vaping it at two months.

I have spent 2 weeks straight vaping a steeped 5 Vegas Cask Strength to make sure I don't mischaracterize it (again). There is still a slightly sweet finish I cant put my finger on, I am pretty sure it is NOT PG though. It is a good vape, an ADV in a cigar NET is an accomplishment in itself worth noting. However I smoke maduros more than any other analog cigar and this doesnt read like one AT ALL. Even at "extra flavor" it lacks depth, richness, and the oily component of a good maduro. it is a nice cigar vape, but even at extra flavor it falls short on richness and body of flavor to W2V, NETCOM, and DIY cigars in my cellar.

 

[MikeNice81]

I have spent 2 weeks straight vaping a steeped 5 Vegas Cask Strength to make sure I don't mischaracterize it (again). There is still a slightly sweet finish I cant put my finger on, I am pretty sure it is NOT PG though. It is a good vape, an ADV in a cigar NET is an accomplishment in itself worth noting. However I smoke maduros more than any other analog cigar and this doesnt read like one AT ALL. Even at "extra flavor" it lacks depth, richness, and the oily component of a good maduro. it is a nice cigar vape, but even at extra flavor it falls short on richness and body of flavor to W2V, NETCOM, and DIY cigars in my cellar.

I stopped comparing MVJ to netcom and the others a while back. It is like eating an Ambrosia apple and complaining that it didn't taste like a Fortune apple.

It has been over a month since I had some well aged STP 5 Vegas. It was actually my first net, so it may be longer. I will differ to your opinion in this matter. My memory could be shoddy.

On the other hand, I think the Brazilia captured the Maduro well. I believe that is the one I commented had an oily essence to the vape taste.

 

[Big Juicy]

I stopped comparing MVJ to netcom and the others a while back. It is like eating an Ambrosia apple and complaining that it didn't taste like a Fortune apple.

It has been over a month since I had some well aged STP 5 Vegas. It was actually my first net, so it may be longer. I will differ to your opinion in this matter. My memory could be shoddy.

Well, comparing to other vendors/juices is the only way for many new, and even some experienced, vapers to figure out where a juice falls on the flavor, gunk, etc. spectrums. Speaking for myself I know if you told me a new juice flavor-wise fell somewhere between W2V London (which i consider arguably the top traditional English blend flavor wise on the retail market) and MOV Southern Gentleman (which i consider the quintessential entry-level NET English blend, one that has ADV possibilities, and yet is not so light in flavor that I wouldn't vape it) I would have a REALLY good idea where that juice was at and whether I wanted to invest my hard earned $ in it.

it is somewhat relative, of course. If you told me the gunk factor was somewhere between W2V Managua and MVJ 5 vegas it could be any one of 10,000 juices

 

[Jerms]

I stopped comparing MVJ to netcom and the others a while back. It is like eating an Ambrosia apple and complaining that it didn't taste like a Fortune apple.

It's like comparing unflavored nic with a NET..


I kid, I kid.. sorry Diane

 

[MikeNice81]

Well, comparing to other vendors/juices is the only way for many new, and even some experienced, vapers to figure out where a juice falls on the flavor, gunk, etc. spectrums. Speaking for myself I know if you told me a new juice flavor-wise fell somewhere between W2V London (which i consider arguably the top traditional English blend flavor wise on the retail market) and MOV Southern Gentleman (which i consider the quintessential entry-level NET English blend, one that has ADV possibilities, and yet is not so light in flavor that I wouldn't vape it) I would have a REALLY good idea where that juice was at and whether I wanted to invest my hard earned $ in it.

it is somewhat relative, of course. If you told me the gunk factor was somewhere between W2V Paris and MVJ 5 vegas it could be any one of 10,000 juices

I understand that. Too me though, it is like trying to compare other nets with HHV. It holds such an individualized niche that doing so is almost unfair. MVJ is essence over presence. It isn't trying to replicate the analog experience as much as bring out the essence of the story the tobacco tells.

I haven't tried Southern Gentleman yet. Where would it fall compared to the MVJ English Blends?

 

[MikeNice81]

It's like comparing unflavored nic with a NET..


I kid, I kid.. sorry Diane

When I hear this I always wonder, what happened to everybody's taste buds? It isn't as strong as Boomer's mixes (is anything as strong as his obsidian) but after a day away from the other stuff it has a good amount of flavor. It isn't as raw and earthy as some others but it isn't supposed to be. I get plenty of flavor with the regular mix. I just suggest looong steeping for cigars and a month on pipes. That is purely to get the body together.

 

[Big Juicy]

I understand that. Too me though, it is like trying to compare other nets with HHV. It holds such an individualized niche that doing so is almost unfair. MVJ is essence over presence. It isn't trying to replicate the analog experience as much as bring out the essence of the story the tobacco tells.

I haven't tried Southern Gentleman yet. Where would it fall compared to the MVJ English Blends?

I agree, but "essence over presence" is a very broad range. *I* get what you mean, but less experienced NET vapers may not at all. Plus, even at this stage of the game for me knowing what niche a juice falls into compared to other I have tried really helps me out.

To answer your question, IMHO, Southern Gent falls smack in the middle of the very broad range between W2V London and MVJ Artisan's both in flavor and gunk factor. It is richer in flavor than my MVJ (extra flavor), tastes thicker, sits more heavily on the palate. Neither really unfolds it's individual tobacco components to me (thought they present their note in very different ways), but i think it is fair to say that to me Southern gent comes off a tad bit more muddled than MVJ, and I think as much as anything that is a filter/richness issue. Southern Gent coasts the palate more, whereas MVJ has that almost signature crisp and clean finish. As far as gunk London is among the most nefarious culprits. MVJ as as squeaky clean on coils as any NET I have ever had, retail or DIY. Southern Gent again sits right in the middle. It is not going to give you merely a handful of clean puffs like the W2V signature line, but you can't go a month or more between dry burns on it either.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

 

[Big Juicy]

When I hear this I always wonder, what happened to everybody's taste buds? It isn't as strong as Boomer's mixes (is anything as strong as his obsidian) but after a day away from the other stuff it has a good amount of flavor. It isn't as raw and earthy as some others but it isn't supposed to be. I get plenty of flavor with the regular mix. I just suggest looong steeping for cigars and a month on pipes. That is purely to get the body together.

This is tough to gauge and answer as I personally don't know all the vendors you have sampled. I mean, in my vape experience relative to hardware, for example, I once thought Vivi Novas were just IT, the cats pajamas. Now even the highest priced, best reviewed, most flavorful BDC are falling a bit short for me and stock ceramics on an eBaron dripper are showing room for improvement. Perspective is huge...so to answer that question I'd need to know what vendors you have tried and vice versa. Me? Want2Vape, Backwoods Brew, Highbrow, Prime Vaping, Trabuco, River Bottom Fog Sauce, Mountain Oak Vapers, NETCOM, Ahlusion, MVJ, Quicknicjuice, Goodejuice, Boomer, Bill Herbst, FearTX, Johnni, Scarf-Ace...I might be forgetting a few...

(note...this is in no way an ego or whatever list...IN ANY WAY. It is just perspective to the question of "tastebuds" to give perspective on what I have tried and thus how I taste and rate juices)

 

[Jerms]

When I hear this I always wonder, what happened to everybody's taste buds? It isn't as strong as Boomer's mixes (is anything as strong as his obsidian) but after a day away from the other stuff it has a good amount of flavor. It isn't as raw and earthy as some others but it isn't supposed to be. I get plenty of flavor with the regular mix. I just suggest looong steeping for cigars and a month on pipes. That is purely to get the body together.

As you said, while most NETs have presence, MVJ's are going for essence. Even unflavored nic has an essence of flavor, but I usually want more than just a hint of flavor. My taste buds are fine, many have said RBFS is lighter on flavor but I find them to be bursting. The MVJ cigars I've had are just so light on flavor, it feels close to vaping unflavored unless I'm really paying attention. I do notice their individual flavor and can tell them apart, but it truly is just an essence of flavor.

Keep in mind, when I speak of the MVJ line my only experience is just 3 cigars at only 4 months steeped, and I honestly have spent very little time with them so far. My opinion may change drastically after spending more time with them. I don't know though, your point of spending a day away from other vapes to be able to notice a good amount of flavor isn't something that's very realistic with my vaping style.

 

[Jerms]

This is tough to gauge and answer as I personally don't know all the vendors you have sampled. I mean, in my vape experience relative to hardware, for example, I once thought Vivi Novas were just IT, the cats pajamas. Now even the highest priced, best reviewed, most flavorful BDC are falling a bit short for me and stock ceramics on an eBaron dripper are showing room for improvement. Perspective is huge...so to answer that question I'd need to know what vendors you have tried and vice versa. Me? Want2Vape, Backwoods Brew, Highbrow, Prime Vaping, Trabuco, River Bottom Fog Sauce, Mountain Oak Vapers, NETCOM, Ahlusion, MVJ, Quicknicjuice, Goodejuice, Boomer, Bill Herbst, FearTX, Johnni, Scarf-Ace...I might be forgetting a few...

(note...this is in no way an ego or whatever list...IN ANY WAY. It is just perspective to the question of "tastebuds" to give perspective on what I have tried and thus how I taste and rate juices)

My list is on the first post Except for a couple of the Bs and a few of the Cs. Plus.. Dust, John, and Bill