Yes but how the juice vapes is more important than what it is called. There are juices like Proudest Monkey which would technically be called a hybrid according to " the definition " which have a much stronger tobacco impact and milder flavoring ( banana ) impact than other " straight NETs " like some HHV and MVJ juices that are much milder in tobacco impact and heavier in non-tobacco flavors. I think explaining the juice in terms of how aromatic it is, would be more informative.
Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux
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Yes but how the juice vapes is more important than what it is called. There are juices like Proudest Monkey which would technically be called a hybrid according to " the definition " which have a much stronger tobacco impact and milder flavoring ( banana ) impact than other " straight NETs " like some HHV and MVJ juices that are much milder in tobacco impact and heavier in non-tobacco flavors. I think explaining the juice in terms of how aromatic it is, would be more informative.
That's sort of like saying ... it's not important what we call a color... just what our opinion of that color is what matters. Both aspects are important.... the type as well as our impression of it. Without the definition, you can't as easily describe what your impression is and have that description mean something specific to the others that are reading it.
I don't get the color analogy at all to be honest. I am not talking about mine or any ones "opinion" on hybrids or " straight NETs ". I am talking about the implication the term " hybrid " might have about the " amount " of " non-tobacco " flavoring that might be present in a juice. How that flavoring is applied ( as a casing or added flavor in final mixing ) is not as important to me as whether it plays a minor or major role in the final product.
But fair enough, if it matters that there be a clear demarcation line, that's fine too.
That was part of the discussion, that the term hybrid is used to describe a specific process of making a flavored NET juice. That word alone is separate from how a juice vapes and subjective opinions of it. Hybrid is a concrete idea while how a juice vapes is subjective. As was said by a few of us, referring to a juice as a hybrid isn't a judgement call or opinion of the juice. To repeat myself, the term hybrid is purely used to define a juice created by a specific process.
It's also not a word that was created by us as 'hybrid' already has a definition. We're just using that definition as they relate to the discussion of NET.
"Hybrid: (noun) a thing made by combining two different elements; a mixture."
I understand what the term "hybrid" means, but we are talking about methods of mixing different elements not whether different elements are present. Casing a tobacco heavily before steeping it, and adding the flavor after the tobacco has been steeped in pg/vg are different methods of imparting said flavor(s) to the final product.
The term "hybrid" as generally used in this thread doesn't specify proportions of flavorings or recipe profiles. It tells us only that non-tobacco flavorings were added during mixing.
A common method used on the thread to indicate the amounts of other flavorings in the overall flavor profile are the terms "Large-font tobacco" versus "Small-font tobacco," often edited for graphic emphasis. Yeah, I know, using font sizes is a bit on the cutesy side, but it works to convey your stated interest. This is sometimes posted as "Tobacco" versus "tobacco." No doubt you've seen that.
You probably know this, but almost all (something like 99%) of the retail tobacco sold in the world is cased with sugar and/or other flavorings. A couple centuries back, tobacco manufacturers discovered that spraying tobacco with a water-based sugar solution during processing (a solution that then is absorbed into the cells of the leaves) improves the burning characteristics for smoking---smoothing out the burn rate and diminishing harshness. Over time, casing became standard practice for all retail tobacco, which continues to this day. Toppings differ, in that they are oil-based flavoring solutions that are sprayed onto the tobacco near the end of processing or afterwards. When toppings dry, the flavorings are not absorbed, but remain as a coating on the surface of the leaf. So, even non-aromatic tobacco is cased. Aromatic tobacco is generally cased and also topped with other flavors. [During my many decades as an addicted smoker, I knew none of that; I've learned it since becoming a natural-tobacco vaper and home extractor.]
As to the importance of the distinction between cased/topped tobacco, where the extra flavors are applied directly to the tobacco during or after processing, and concentrated liquid flavorings added to a non-aromatic tobacco extract during mixing, I can understand that this might not matter to you (to me, it matters only a little), but it is obviously meaningful and important to people such as Brian at RiverBottomFogSauce NETs---who never adds flavorings to his extracts---and Clay at N-E-T.com, who clearly feels that the two methods sometimes produce different results in the actual flavor profile of a given eliquid.
If I'm not mistaken, the term "NET" was first used on this thread. While the acronym itself is problematic---it's often decoded as "Naturally-Extracted Tobacco," which is a misnomer, since the extraction isn't the natural part, but the tobacco flavoring itsel---still, we needed an easy, shorthand term to use in our discussions of eliquids made from real, natural tobacco rather than synthetic, lab-based tobacco flavorings. And no, that doesn't make us authorities, but Part One and Part Deux of this thread have had enough clout that the term NET is now recognized and largely accepted on ECF and in the retail juice marketplace. To me, that's an inevitable and necessary process in a young industry finding its sea legs and setting standards.
I would not have guessed that about RBFS if i didn't read the descriptions of killry4 and count caramel. I perceive a lot more flavoring in those juices than something like GJ4 or ouRwhYqu4tro. Perhaps he adds copious amounts of topping himself.
Maybe, or it's a matter of finding heavily cased pipe tobaccos. As mentioned in the description of Count Caramel, he extracted a lot of caramel tobaccos before finding one he liked..
"I love caramel, but its so hard for me to find a dark, rich caramel vape.. So when I started to experiment with the various caramel tobacco blends I wasnt going to get too excited.. That was until I tried this one."
I've had several home extractions that were very heavily flavored but were just a straight-up maceration. Often, the non-tobacco flavors and sweetness diminishes over time allowing the tobacco to feel stronger.
I have no reliable information about that, but I'm inclined to think that it may be true. I recall Brian telling me in an email that he makes a lot of his own tobacco blends for his extractions. (As a home extractor, I've just bought whatever retail pipe blends or cigars looked good to me.) Wouldn't surprise me at all if he adds his own toppings.
I haven't had Count Caramel, but KillR Y4 is definitely flavored more strongly than any off-the-shelf retail aromatic blend I know of. Whether or not Brian topped the tobacco he used in that one, I simply don't know.
That balken blend ..wow!
70% pg extract plus 30% vg plus salt.
super dry , smoky almost turpentine , rubbery , with subtle sweet spices pushing through the dryness, not vpaed anything like thise before.[just hit me what this reminds me of, an Islay whiskey!]
Sorry about using this thread just to shout WOW , but i don't know anyone else who would appreciate my rants about this stuff.
70% pg extract plus 30% vg plus salt.
super dry , smoky almost turpentine , rubbery , with subtle sweet spices pushing through the dryness, not vpaed anything like thise before.[just hit me what this reminds me of, an Islay whiskey!]
Sorry about using this thread just to shout WOW , but i don't know anyone else who would appreciate my rants about this stuff.
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I guess the point i was ( unsuccessfully ) trying to make was that calling a juice a " hybrid " or not doesn't ( necessarily ) give me any information about the flavor profile of a juice and the amount of non-tobacco flavoring present. And especially in the case of toppings more so than casings, it is perhaps more a matter of semantics than a meaningful distinction to me.
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Many of us aren't simply a consumer of pre-made products, some do their own extraction and/or DIY of their e-liquids... knowing how a flavor is achieved by either a casing, topping or adding as a hybrid and how that flavor will be once steeped.. is of interest to some here. Knowing about the process is more than semantics if you are also trying to do it yourself... or just want to know about how it is done.
Fair enough, I stand corrected ! I apologize if i offended anyone
This was a discussion... no reason for anyone to be offended.
Fair enough, I stand corrected ! I apologize if i offended anyone
This whole discussion helped clear up everything for me! I wasn't offended, more like appreciative.
It was nice to see this thread come back to life again.
I have very little experience with cigar extracts, but all i can say is if you like black licorice, you would likely love this juice !
Ah, nutz... Not a fan.
On a side note, This Count Caramel is absolutely Feeee-Nominal! I have a new favorite caramel tobacco vape! And I don't care if it's a straight up extraction or a Hybrid!
Say more about it; the flavor and steeping changes. I'm probably gonna try Godfather next GeJ order.
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