Need help with new ways to get what I'm missing!

[olderthandirt]

I just called em and they said its no subscription so I'm happy. Free snus for $1.00 shipping. Cant beat that. So I'll try the swedish stuff and the discreet stuff and see which one I like the best.

Have no fear Bogalu, getsnus, The Northerner and clubsnus, the 3 vendors I use, are completely legit and above board.

Look to see ya over to the Smokeless Tobacco forum soon!

 

[Stubby]

I don't mean to rain on your parade but Snus DOES NOT in fact raise the risk of oral cancers at all. A fair share of research can bring the light of day about that. Although snus DOES increase the risk of cancer in your colon oddly enough. So it seems as though we traded oral cancer for colon cancer. Although the risk for colon cancer wasn't elevated too much more than those who do not use any tobacco product. Nevertheless the elevated risk is there.

Never heard of any connection with snus and colon cancer, and I've read most of what's out there. There may be a slight increase in Pancreatic cancer. 4 per 100,000 for non-tobacco users, 8 per 100,000 for snus users, and 13 per 100,000 for smokers. There is some debate of those numbers for snus, but even if true a very low risk factor compared to the over 10% lung cancer for smoking. That would be at least 10,000 per 100,000.

 

[JakeStew]

If I have not overlooked something, then there is no statistical data that supports the notion that snus increases the risk for oral cancer.

Yes, there is plenty of data to show that tobacco causes cancer. Snus is tobacco!

Just because you call it something different and use against your nasal mucosa instead of your oral mucosa doesn't mean that there's suddenly no risk.

> And there is quite a bit of data on snus use, so if it did, it would have been noticed.

I can cite you dozens of studies showing no risk from smoking. It took quite awhile to demonstrate the danger of smoking, but we all know that it is now well proven. It's always hard to demonstrate long term risks in short term studies. There aren't that many people who use snus so it would be exceptionally hard to demonstrate anything in an epidemiological study.

I don't think you'd find any legitimate scientists even interested in it. It's already well demonstrated that "smokeless tobacco" products DO cause cancer, so what would be the point of studying every brand of tobacco and every orifice that you can insert tobacco into? Who would fund something like that? It certainly wouldn't do anything for your scientific career.

I could come out with ear tobacco and claim there's no data to show that it causes cancer, but what's the point? Who's honestly going to believe that it's any safer than packing it in your lip?

I don't mean to rain on your parade but Snus DOES NOT in fact raise the risk of oral cancers at all. A fair share of research can bring the light of day about that.

Show me the data then! Of course, I'll come back with 10X the number of studies showing that "smokeless" tobacco products DO cause cancer. You're not going to get around the fact that tobacco contains a lot of carcinogens and has been shown to cause cancer.

Sure, smokeless tobacco is less harmful than smoked tobacco. I don't see any reason snus wouldn't be similarly safer. Sure it may also have lower nitrosamine content also, even better. But lower levels and less risk doesn't mean it's safe or that it doesn't cause cancer.

An excess risk of dying of cardiovascular disease has been observed among snus users in a co-hort study comprising Swedish construction workers (10).

Results are contradictory regarding whether snus contributes to an increased risk of age-related diabetes.

An increased cardiovascular risk on use of snus was observed in a large co-hort study (16).

That was taken from a snus website with pretend citations. i.e. they pretended to be citing studies but had no actual citations at the bottom.

I also think it's interesting that they keep talking about oral cancer. I don't see why you would even expect oral cancer since you're putting it up your nose, not in your mouth. I could claim that smoking doesn't cause toe cancer, but WTF?

Just to break it down again... tobacco causes cancer because it contains carcinogens. When carcinogens contact your cells they mutate DNA, leading to cancer. Snus IS tobacco. Snus contains carcinogens. Therefore the carcinogens in snus can cause you to get cancer. If you know some magical way around basic facts of biology then please enlighten me.


-Jake

 

[voltaire]

I'm picturing JakeStew trying snus for the first time and walking around looking like he's got a mini-tampon stuffed in his nose.

Snus goes in your mouth.

(Nasal) Snuff goes in your nose.

 

[AlexTM]

Yes, him not even knowing what he is talking about sure makes his arguments extremely convincing, doesn't it

 

[Bogalu]

Yes, there is plenty of data to show that tobacco causes cancer. Snus is tobacco!

Just because you call it something different and use against your nasal mucosa instead of your oral mucosa doesn't mean that there's suddenly no risk.

> And there is quite a bit of data on snus use, so if it did, it would have been noticed.

I can cite you dozens of studies showing no risk from smoking. It took quite awhile to demonstrate the danger of smoking, but we all know that it is now well proven. It's always hard to demonstrate long term risks in short term studies. There aren't that many people who use snus so it would be exceptionally hard to demonstrate anything in an epidemiological study.

I don't think you'd find any legitimate scientists even interested in it. It's already well demonstrated that "smokeless tobacco" products DO cause cancer, so what would be the point of studying every brand of tobacco and every orifice that you can insert tobacco into? Who would fund something like that? It certainly wouldn't do anything for your scientific career.

I could come out with ear tobacco and claim there's no data to show that it causes cancer, but what's the point? Who's honestly going to believe that it's any safer than packing it in your lip?



Show me the data then! Of course, I'll come back with 10X the number of studies showing that "smokeless" tobacco products DO cause cancer. You're not going to get around the fact that tobacco contains a lot of carcinogens and has been shown to cause cancer.

Sure, smokeless tobacco is less harmful than smoked tobacco. I don't see any reason snus wouldn't be similarly safer. Sure it may also have lower nitrosamine content also, even better. But lower levels and less risk doesn't mean it's safe or that it doesn't cause cancer.



That was taken from a snus website with pretend citations. i.e. they pretended to be citing studies but had no actual citations at the bottom.

I also think it's interesting that they keep talking about oral cancer. I don't see why you would even expect oral cancer since you're putting it up your nose, not in your mouth. I could claim that smoking doesn't cause toe cancer, but WTF?

Just to break it down again... tobacco causes cancer because it contains carcinogens. When carcinogens contact your cells they mutate DNA, leading to cancer. Snus IS tobacco. Snus contains carcinogens. Therefore the carcinogens in snus can cause you to get cancer. If you know some magical way around basic facts of biology then please enlighten me.


-Jake

Wow buddy. I didn't mean to make you mad. I'm not denouncing the fact that snus causes cancer. It does, just not in the place you would expect it most... In your mouth.

Snuff goes in the nose, snus goes in the mouth.

Snus is dangerous I'm sure. But compared to what my other options are (Ciggs/Hookah/Cigars/Ect) I'm taking what I believe to be the lesser of all evils and hope to eventually ween myself off tobacco products all together.

Thats all I'm saying.

 

[Bogalu]

I'm picturing JakeStew trying snus for the first time and walking around looking like he's got a mini-tampon stuffed in his nose.

Snus goes in your mouth.

(Nasal) Snuff goes in your nose.

Yeah thats a hilarious image in my head right now. lmao

 

[Krythis]

I'm still having 2-3 analogues a day(down from 40) and I don't really notice any withdrawal symptoms throughout the day when vaping. I have a tin of Camel Snus that was given to me with a pack of Camel Silvers once. I never tried it, but it's sitting here if I ever get the urge. Is that the same as the other Snus products I keep seeing mentioned around here?

I like to smoke the occasional hookah. The shisha contents depends on it's origin. Some use molasses and tobacco and others use honey. I'm assuming the other chemicals depends on that as well? I agree hookahs are very relaxing, though I usually add some herbal supplement to the shisha to aid in this.

 

[dgriego]

I am vaping and using snuff with the occasional snus. As for risks well all I know is I was smoking a pack to a pack and half a day. I was feeling shortness of breath, I did stink, I was waking in the morning with a tight chest, I did have a bad hacking cough.
Now I have none of these things. I can taste, I can smell, I can go for a long hike with my dogs and I can breath, I no longer smell like a ashtray, I no longer have a hacking cough, I no longer feel a tightness in my chest.
Is there risk to snuff and snus, I am sure there is but it is way lesser than smoking and since I seem to have a huge problem just dropping it all and going cold turkey I have chosen to vape, snuff and snus.

I am happy.
Do what makes you happy. If you can lay it all down that is awesome! I applaud you. If you can lay it all down except for the vape then YEH that is great!
Some of us seem to need something more than vape and snuff and snus are far less risky than smoking and chewing.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Jake, your whole unfounded rant shows how well the "anti" movement has brainwashed you. The independent studies stand on their own and long term effects, or should I say "lack there of", over the last more than 200 years should be enough proof to all except those who can't see a burning candle in a dark room. Show me as good of argument for ecigs. Our assumptions are probably right, but who really knows the long term effects of inhaling PG or food flavorings. PG is used in inhalers, but inhalers are not used in the constant manner we use PV's. You've taken up a battle you're unarmed to fight.

 

[Bogalu]

Yup I agree. Just 1 more day till my snus is here.

 

[JakeStew]

Wow, I guess I really look like a dumbass! Well, I misspoke.

There's been plenty of talk in this thread of bullets, snus, snuff, etc.. So whatever. It's still tobacco and you can chew it, snort it, or whatever.

Chew has been shown to cause cancer. Putting it in a little pouch doesn't change what it is.

Your post was pretty damn funny though voltaire.


-Jake

 

[AlexTM]

How about you actually do cite us a study that actually shows an increased risk from snus instead of sounding like an ASH spokesperson?

And snus does not necessarily come in a pouch, either. It is however processed in a quite different way from American chewing tobacco. In a way, one might add, which does minimize the TSRAs, which are suspected to be able to cause cancer. As has, I believe, been mentioned before.

 

[Stubby]

I'm still having 2-3 analogues a day(down from 40) and I don't really notice any withdrawal symptoms throughout the day when vaping. I have a tin of Camel Snus that was given to me with a pack of Camel Silvers once. I never tried it, but it's sitting here if I ever get the urge. Is that the same as the other Snus products I keep seeing mentioned around here?

I like to smoke the occasional hookah. The shisha contents depends on it's origin. Some use molasses and tobacco and others use honey. I'm assuming the other chemicals depends on that as well? I agree hookahs are very relaxing, though I usually add some herbal supplement to the shisha to aid in this.

The camel snus is kind of like the Swedish snus. It is pasteurized like the Swedish snus and does have very low TSNA numbers (nasty stuff, lower numbers are better) but the nicotine delivery is low compared to Swedish. Most regular snus users don't find it very satisfying.

Even with that, it would be much better to reach for a camel snus rather then a hookah. A hookah is definitely not considered reduced harm while snus definitely is.

 

[kase]

I thank my lucky stars when I read threads like this that vaping is completely satisfying and I dont have to chew tobacco at the same time.