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New bad...PG and VG... results in rats...comments?

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by cvco, Sep 24, 2019.

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  1. cvco

    cvco Full Member

    Nov 18, 2014
    Penang, Malaysia
  2. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    “Their immune cells were … not working well,” she said. “Even a very small dose of influenza virus” killed most of the mice who had been breathing the vape juice, she said.

    Horsefeathers. When I was smoking, I'd get colds several each year, and they always went into my chest. In December, it will be six years since I switched. During that entire time, I've had one mild cold, which didn't go into my chest at all. Meanwhile non-smokers and non-vapers around me have had plenty of 'em. My personal experience is that vaping actually has a protective effect against the common cold.

    “FDA has never, ever even tested or been asked to determine whether these things, these chemical solvents, are actually safe [for] inhalation, let alone chronic inhalation,” Kheradmand said.

    1942 Study: Health Benefits of Inhaled Propylene Glycol
     
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  3. 440BB

    440BB Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 19, 2011
    The Motor City
    They're just piling on with outrageous stuff while the opportunity to color the public's opinion is ripe. It's getting harder day by day in the US for ecigs to ever again be seen in the favorable light they deserve. Disgusting.
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
  4. cvco

    cvco Full Member

    Nov 18, 2014
    Penang, Malaysia
    Please take a look at the article and it appears the problem is the same as those recently dying from vaping THC--just because a product can be eaten it doesnt mean it can be vaped. The effects of a food in the stomach is not the same as the effects in the lungs which have no digestive features.

    To be honest, I never understood how VG, for example, could be inhaled. Eaten in foods, yes, but inhaled? Why wouldnt a person inhale a cheeseburger that, lets say, had first been dried and ground into dust? Its doubtful one would.

    Previously, the research into ejuice said it could be 15 years before any ill effects were known so we really dont know what effects vaping is having. I have no ill effects from any vaping but long term, who knows?

    PG, i think the article said, can be used in an I-V. So, we have eating, inhaling and I-V as nicotine delivery methods and the ingredients to do that cannot necessarily be mixed and matched to our discretion.

    Maybe its time to re-think what can be inhaled safely and create a new kind of base---if this research is deemed to be true. Again, who knows?
     
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  5. puffon

    puffon Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 18, 2014
    Florida
    People have been vaping PG and VG over 12 years. No one has died from it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 12
  6. ceeceeisme

    ceeceeisme Ultra Member ECF Veteran

     
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  7. Katya

    Katya ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Feb 23, 2010
    SoCal
    From Dr. Farsalinos:

    The emotional and irrational hysteria in the US about the “vaping-related” (or cannabis-related?) lung disease that goes far beyond confirmation bias

    "What does this tell us from an epidemiological perspective (again, without considering any information about cannabis/THC use)?
    1. That these cases are not related to long-term use of e-cigarettes. The authorities have clarified that these are acute cases. Despite various media presenting this as a mysterious lung disease, it is in fact poisoning of the lungs which is clinically manifested as serious respiratory failure (perhaps ARDS, perhaps some form of severe lung inflammation leading to respiratory failure).
    2. That these cases are not related to vaping products that have been available for years in the US and global market. It makes absolutely no sense that the same products that have been used for several years by millions and never caused any disease outbreak are only today causing acute disease.
    3. That these cases are not related to products that are generally used by the average vaper. The average age of adult vapers in the US is different from the average age of adults that have suffered from this acute condition. Also, the number of cases is very low considering the millions of vapers in the US and the many more millions globally.
    4. That these cases are related to the recent release of new products (that were not previously available in the market), or to a recent modification in the composition of products previously available in the market, or to a recent problem in the manufacturing process or raw materials of products that were previously available in the market. This explains the timing of the outbreak. These products could be nicotine-containing or nicotine-free products (remember, we assume there is no information on THC/cannabis)."
     
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  8. Zaryk

    Zaryk Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2018
    Ohio
    • Agree Agree x 15
  9. cvco

    cvco Full Member

    Nov 18, 2014
    Penang, Malaysia
    440BB said it well, vaping cant be seen favorably now. Same with guns, 20 school shootings by rabid monsters made all inanimate guns bad, not to mention destroying the reputations of 70 million innocent owners.

    We are finding that it also didnt take much to wreck vaping, and that big tobacco was bent on finding a way to say that somehow smoking was healthier than vaping. Still, we vapers want to quit smoking and if a vaping base can be found to more greatly reduce ill effects, i think we'd want that regardless of crazy negative articles written by people NOT on our side.
     
  10. ScottP

    ScottP Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2013
    Houston, TX
    New study released today: Modern "Scientists" and "Researchers" are really just "useful idiots".
     
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  11. greek mule

    greek mule Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2018
    Athens,Greece
    Vaping is under siege.
     
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  12. cvco

    cvco Full Member

    Nov 18, 2014
    Penang, Malaysia
    Zaryk,

    I know so many vapers....an endless number...and have yet to find ONE who has reported ill effects including developing immune dysfunction or any other disease. Is that because vaping remains below the threshold of doing great damage or the timeline isnt long enough yet to determine it? In the end, thats the issue in all the articles and research.
     
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  13. englishmick

    englishmick Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 25, 2014
    Naptown, Indiana
    That might be true IF there really were ill effects that could be greatly reduced. But there is no evidence that there are ill effects from PG or VG, and solid evidence that there are no ill effects. I think you are looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
     
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  14. cvco

    cvco Full Member

    Nov 18, 2014
    Penang, Malaysia
    Hi, Im Greek myself but from USA. My family is in Athens now. We farm olives in Kalamata and last time I was there, a mule was standing right in the road so I stopped and played with him, he was so friendly.
     
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  15. greek mule

    greek mule Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2018
    Athens,Greece
    I was in Kalamata last year,you are the kind driver that waited for me to pass the road?
     
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  16. jandrew

    jandrew Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 2, 2013
    Winnipeg
    I want to see the data on what percentage are "useful" idiots, what other idiot classifications were employed in the analysis, and what criteria were used to classify "useful" idiots from, say, Kardashian idiots.
     
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  17. cvco

    cvco Full Member

    Nov 18, 2014
    Penang, Malaysia
    Well, stop me if I do that because thats not the intention at all. Still, we dont know the long term effects and also, I certainly would try a safer base if one were created--why not?

    A suspect problem with this article is the RATS. If VG/PG is seen to screw up the immune system of a rat, why isnt the same test being done on any active vapers? Thats very suspect, it says to me that they fear testing humans wouldnt give the same results to support the narrative.
     
  18. Zaryk

    Zaryk Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2018
    Ohio
    If you read the study @Rossum posted above, it was done on rats with the opposite effect as the study you posted. And his posted study is definitely not influenced by current events, as it was done before vaping was a thing.

    There could be long term effects, yes. But there have been people inhaling fog from a fog machine for years and years with no reported effects. It would be more likely that long term effects will show up from certain flavoring ingredients.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. englishmick

    englishmick Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 25, 2014
    Naptown, Indiana
    Sure I would use a safer base. But to say another base was safer they would need to show the level of harm involved with the existing base, and the new base. So far I don't think they have shown any level of harm from the bases we use, apart from the rat experiment you mentioned. Sure, there could be some harm arising from long term use, beyond the timeframe we have been using them for. People have been inhaling both PG and VG for a long time, but not in the quantities used by vapers, so we don't know.

    The only other base I'm aware of is PEG (?). Sometimes used as an alternative to PG for people who are allergic or sensitive to PG. I don't know if any testing has been done on that. I've seen ads for CBD vaping liquid that use several other bases I had never heard of.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Ryedan

    Ryedan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    I agree @englishmick.

    I have seen no credible evidence that vaping PG or VG has any long term health issues. How is anyone going to know when they have found something safer than that :blink:
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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