New coils often breaking/crumbling on first fire

[David1975]

I can't really see the build deck in the pics they have, but with 28 I'm assuming about a 4/5 to 5/6 wrap depending on your drill bit? I suppose it could be the wire is you are sure your coils don't over lap, and that your not touching the center pin in any way. I'll throw a few pics on here of how mine looks right now.... well, after the dry burn. You can see the center sticking up, this EHPro and most other clones do, the original and hcigar don't. This has been the cause of most problem's I have had, wires need to be close, and sometimes after heating they move just enough to touch. I'm also not shy an dry burning, tend to hit it a few times for 5-10 seconds... never over 15 though, don't want to melt the insulator. If you cant post pictures yet, send me an IM with one, I'll tell you what I see as well as upload it for you to get others opinions

 

[Kanthal]

I can't really see the build deck in the pics they have, but with 28 I'm assuming about a 4/5 to 5/6 wrap depending on your drill bit? I suppose it could be the wire is you are sure your coils don't over lap, and that your not touching the center pin in any way. I'll throw a few pics on here of how mine looks right now.... well, after the dry burn. View attachment 362817 View attachment 362818 You can see the center sticking up, this EHPro and most other clones do, the original and Hcigar don't. This has been the cause of most problem's I have had, wires need to be close, and sometimes after heating they move just enough to touch. I'm also not shy an dry burning, tend to hit it a few times for 5-10 seconds... never over 15 though, don't want to melt the insulator. If you cant post pictures yet, send me an IM with one, I'll tell you what I see as well as upload it for you to get others opinions

On that first pic I can swear the positive lead is touching that negative deck. It's a lot closer to the deck than any coil I'd mount...that's why i put my coils on up-side down. Let me finishing vaping the rest of this space jam - astro and I'll take a pic of my coil. Maybe I've been mounting my coils wrong this whole time.

 

[Agnes Black]

I like 26g Vapowire kanthal -- the thicker gauge doesn't burn or warp as much as 28 or 30. You need a 6/7 - 7/8 wrap for @ 1 ohm on a 5/64 drill bit. Right now I've been using up the rest of my 28g with a similar wrap, but mine is a little bit taller (@ 2mm above the center screw). Using a DNA 30 box, I fire it at 7w pulsing, then 10, etc until its up to 20. I get less warp. If you fire your wire with a pocket torch before wrapping it will also help eliminate warping/crumbling when you first fire on an atty.

 

[regal55]

with Kathal sometimes its a good idea to anneal by torching before even wrapping.

 

[Kanthal]

with Kathal sometimes its a good idea to anneal by torching before even wrapping.

yessss this seems to be the issue! It seems the kanthal has some flammable coat on it that seems to get very hot on the very first burn. And my crappy phone won't focus enough to get a good picture of my coil.
View attachment 362839

 

[msgnyc]

On that first pic I can swear the positive lead is touching that negative deck. It's a lot closer to the deck than any coil I'd mount...that's why i put my coils on up-side down. Let me finishing vaping the rest of this space jam - astro and I'll take a pic of my coil. Maybe I've been mounting my coils wrong this whole time.

Yeah, that leg looks a bit to close to the negative deck to me. Actually looks like its touching. 2nd picture looks fine tho. That may be where the problems were stemming from on the builds the OP was having issues with.

Sent from my One using Tapatalk

 

[steved5600]

I've been building micro coils on my Kayfun for a while now but I still haven't figured out why so many times after building a brand new coil it will bend and crumble the first time I fire it. Then I have to take it off the deck and wrap another coil and try again. I'm still trying figure out what makes this happen. When I wrap my coils I am always sure the coil isn't bottoming out on the deck and I always make sure the screws are tight.

Could it be the brand of Kanthal I'm using? I'm using cheapo Temco brand (28g).

Not being condescending or a jerk but first things first just in case. Because i did not see an ohms reading if you don't have an ohm meter you need one it should not be considered an option. It's right up there with learning ohms laws and battery safety. That being said.
I bet you have a short maybe to a post or the deck or the resistance is to low. If you go sub ohm make sure your using a 30amp continuous use battery forgot to mention that when i was on the soap box. LOL. If all else fails got to a Brick an Mortar and see if they can help also if you have pics we may be able to tell more.

 

[Shootist]

it bends ,warps, turns ashy on the first fire

Then you are not using Kanthal.

No short would cause that to happen. Actually a Short between the negative post and the positive post wouldn't allow electricity to flow through the coil. Also if you are using a regulated battery device it would see the short and not fire at all, that is if it is a good regulated device.

If it is on a Mech Mod and shorted somewhere the battery would get very HOT Very Quick but still the actual coil wouldn't get any electricity.

Again You AREN'T USING Kanthal.

I use Temco Kanthal, A1, and have never seen anything like what you are talking about.

 

[Dampmaskin]

If the negative coil leg is touching the positive post on the build deck (as it almost seems to do in the picture), and you give it 4 Volts from a mech mod, that could well be enough to melt the leg.

Which is a good thing, because the alternative would be to "melt" the battery.

 

[Bunnykiller]

when dry burning an empty coil, do it in short bursts to heat up the coil to a slightly glowing state. It only takes 1-3 seconds to do this, let it cool own a tad before you do it again. 5-10 second burns will pop the coil in a hurry...

 

[Zealous]

yessss this seems to be the issue! It seems the kanthal has some flammable coat on it that seems to get very hot on the very first burn. And my crappy phone won't focus enough to get a good picture of my coil.
View attachment 362839

I can't open the attachement to look at this pic for some reason.

HST I do not think doing a dry burn (essentially what you're describing) would cause the coil to behave as you describe. Yes kanthal does have a flammable coat & I find it helpful to torch it before wrapping my first coil. But that shouldn't cause it to destroy the coil on a dry burn.

Many people use the method of lighting up the coil & then squeezing the coil to tighten it up. So this is not a practice that should cause your issue.

I'm having a hard time visualizing what it looks like when your coil breaks (does it break at the leg or like it's melting or what?). If it's breaking at the leg there has got to be a short somewhere & it does not necessarily have to be a short in the coil you're building. I had an RDA a long time ago that was totally screwed up & I built like 200 coils before figuring out that I'm not an incompetent builder & it's the atty that was the problem.

I would suggest maybe building a coil on some other atomizer if you can & see if you see a similar problem. I would also suggest taking the Kayfun to a B&M & having someone else build a coil on it to see the results.

Are you certain you are using the correct wire? I know there are other grades of kanthal although I have not seen very many options for buying anything other than A1 since that's what's needed for building coils.

And if your ohm checker is not performing properly you MUST get a working reader before building anymore coils. It's very important to be able to check your resistance for your own safety.

 

[Sekasi]

I don't think you're using Kanthal.

Kanthal doesn't disintegrate into 'ash' when you destroy it like that. Even if I held the trigger for 20 seconds, no way that would happen. It would overheat, start to melt and a leg would snap off and break the circuit.

Kanthal doesn't go ashy. It just doesn't.

 

[Equilibrium]

I don't think you're using Kanthal.

Kanthal doesn't disintegrate into 'ash' when you destroy it like that. Even if I held the trigger for 20 seconds, no way that would happen. It would overheat, start to melt and a leg would snap off and break the circuit.

Kanthal doesn't go ashy. It just doesn't.

I've shorted two coils before and the only thing that happens is one of the legs pop. The coil itself looks fine for the most part.

And.. I've never had any issues with a long dry burn on a regulated devise or mech. In fact, I believe my torch gets the coil hotter than my devise does and it would certainly burn up then, but never has.

I'd try a different wire and make sure everything is clear (no shorts) before firing.