New FDA regulations and effect on DIY?

[GunMonkeyINTL]

Isn't harm reduction an authorization vehicle as well?

I think that's what Modified Risk is.
May have missed that detail, though.

...oh, definitely forgot BZLD on my list.


(buy Zeller a Lap Dance)

 

[GunMonkeyINTL]

OK... Here is a Question for you.

Now that Deeming has been Enacted, and if No Changes are made to it, can ANY tobacco Product be sold in the USA after Aug 8th 2018 (or if the FDA Grants a PMTA, SE, Modified Risk Application extension) if it does NOT Have a Marketing Authorization from the FDA?

Yes. The ones that existed before 2/15/07.

 

[zoiDman]

Yes. The ones that existed before 2/15/07.

That is Not how I understand it. But Hey, I could be Wrong.

 

[Rossum]

Yes. The ones that existed before 2/15/07.

... and are unchanged. Right down to the packaging. And the FDA can force them to change their packaging. I've wondered before if an involuntary change, one that's required by the FDA, would initiate the requirement to apply for an SE or PMTA. Perhaps it qualifies for an SE Exemption?

 

[Rossum]

That is Not how I understand it. But Hey, I could be Wrong.

I think you are, but that's OK.

 

[zoiDman]

I think you are, but that's OK.

Here is a Purely Hypothetical Question then...

Given the current state of the AG Bill, and HR2058, if someone proposed moving the Predicate date to Mid-2014 because there was a Much Better chance of Passage, would you support a Mid-2014 Predicate Date?

 

[Rossum]

Here is a Purely Hypothetical Question then...

Given the current state of the AG Bill, and HR2058, if someone proposed moving the Predicate date to Mid-2014 because there was a Much Better chance of Passage, would you support a Mid-2014 Predicate Date?

Over the existing early 2007 date? Yes, if that were the only option, I believe I would. There was a large variety of effective products available by mid 2014, compared to essentially none in 2007.

 

[englishmick]

Yup, I'll be surprised if any vape products do not require a PMTA.

The only exception may be for nic liquid - I don't know what nic liquid was available before the grandfather date, if any. However, if nic liquid was available, a nic liquid currently marketed with the same ingredients and nicotine strength would possibly be considered "substantially equivalent". If so, a full PMTA is not required, just has to show the product generally has the same ingredients and properties.


BOOM!

I once looked through some of the earliest posts on ECF and found a long discussion where people talked about trying to make their own juice. That was dated well after the Grandfather Date. They had figured out that the juice in the cartridges they were buying was based on PG or VG. I remember seeing people talking about how great it would be if you could buy plain nicotine in PG or VG. Somewhere in the thread someone posted that that had found some vendor selling nicotine in PG. If my memory is correct I think that was a new product at the time, probably aimed at the vaping industry.

I got the impression reading that thread that nic in PG or VG wasn't sold prior to the start of vaping. Obviously Nic was being produced and sold before that, but maybe we are the only people who want it mixed with PG.

 

[Frocket]

Yeah, I'm not sure. It would probably be a long shot, even if there were a comparable product on the market way back in the dark ages. If the FDA determines that a product is sufficiently different to possibly have a different effect on health, they can demand a full PMTA anyway.

BOOM!

 

[kross8]

I once looked through some of the earliest posts on ECF and found a long discussion where people talked about trying to make their own juice. That was dated well after the Grandfather Date. They had figured out that the juice in the cartridges they were buying was based on PG or VG. I remember seeing people talking about how great it would be if you could buy plain nicotine in PG or VG. Somewhere in the thread someone posted that that had found some vendor selling nicotine in PG. If my memory is correct I think that was a new product at the time, probably aimed at the vaping industry.

I got the impression reading that thread that nic in PG or VG wasn't sold prior to the start of vaping. Obviously Nic was being produced and sold before that, but maybe we are the only people who want it mixed with PG.

many years ago,,,,,,,like 15-20 at least,, could have even been25-30 years,, I remember seeing a bottle of Nicotine on the shelf of a farm/animal supply store.--I remember thinking (as a smoker),,, I seriously don't think cows are smoking.........lol......I didn't even know about it being used as a pesticide.

 

[zoiDman]

many years ago,,,,,,,like 15-20 at least,, could have even been25-30 years,, I remember seeing a bottle of Nicotine on the shelf of a farm/animal supply store.--I remember thinking (as a smoker),,, I seriously don't think cows are smoking.........lol......I didn't even know about it being used as a pesticide.

Are you sure it wasn't Nicotine Base for DIY Vaping Cows?

 

[440BB]

Are you sure it wasn't Nicotine Base for DIY Vaping Cows?

Shhh - they are our lifeline!

 

[kross8]

Are you sure it wasn't Nicotine Base for DIY Vaping Cows?

you know,, we always assumed all that hot air was methane.......dang,, early adopter vapors right there in our pasture!

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Moo Juice. ?

No nic for cows wild onions is bad enough in them.

But if we feed them chocolate we don't get chocolate milk?

go figure...

 

[Andromendous]

I just want to double-check my calculations, if i vape 60mls a week, at 4 mg nic, 500ml of 100mg/ml nic will last about 4 years? Is that right?

 

[440BB]

That's what I get!

 

[DaBucs]

I just want to double-check my calculations, if i vape 60mls a week, at 4 mg nic, 500ml of 100mg/ml nic will last about 4 years? Is that right?

yup about 4.34 years

This is how i do the math:

nic volume / nic vape = servings per volume x 100ml = total mixed liquid / vape amount per month = total months of vapable liquid / 12 = years of vapable liquid

for my example, as i do 3mg of nic:
1000ml/3ml*=333.33 x 100ml = 33333ml / 300 = 111.11 / 12 = 9.259 years
that help?

yours =
500/4ml = 125 x 100ml = 12500ml/240 = 52.08 / 12 = 4.34 years

* in a 100ml bottle, 3ml of 100mg nic = 3mg (3ml/100=.03)

 

[dethnode]

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9926222

Can anyone tell me what this is? And, the MSDS says created 2005, so if this is a suitable nicotine base, and it has been on the market since 05 and unchanged, would it not be either exempt, or pretty much a shoe in for the SE pathway to authorization?

 

[dethnode]

Well, after further research my above posted link is for 99% pure nicotine... scratch that, im not messing with that @#$&

 

[salemgold]

Here is another hypothetical question. If nicotine is made illegal for us ordinary people to own, do any of you think that this section of ECF will still exist?

I am curious about what others think about this. Maybe we should make copies of any info here that we would like to have access to in the future at some point.