New Projects by Atmomixani

[JohnD0406]

I know that I get a bit of grief (not on this thread) for being vocally anti-clone. There are low cost options if that is an issue for you or, better yet, save money if you can't justify paying for a high end device.

Not wanting to turn this into a clone discussion, but the topic does come up in every thread it seems. This thread is where I would expect to get the most hate for owning a clone, but wanted to get your hardcore opinion.

My first mechanical mod was an (authentic) mixed matte edition Nemesis, purchased in-person at VapeRev. I love it - the design is great, etc. (I'm preaching to the choir here). I might love it too much though. I don't use it in the car, since I drive a manual and don't want to scuff it up. I don't feel comfortable leaving it on my desk at work in fear of having it stolen. I only use it at home, or out and about where it will always be in my hand.

So, my solution to always have a Nemesis-like device I'm not afraid to get banged up or even stolen, was to get a cheap clone. Of course it's not as good as the real thing, and owning the real thing I can tell every minute difference, but it's the next best thing. If I had unlimited disposable income, I'd get two, but... reality.

I just purchased a mixed matte edition Nemi, which should be delivered tomorrow. When I have the money, I like to get something different, rather than two of the same one. I know some in this crowd have collections - must be nice to have the budget for that - wish I did too.

So, I'm against the idea of clones as a first/only device, but don't feel guilty about owning one, since I got a real one first. Any opinions in my situation? I imagine the hardcore folks would not like it, and still say "just get two" - I'm prepared for that, especially here. I just thought it would be interesting to get an opinion or two.

PS - I have an (authentic) kayfun Lite Plus on my Nemesis, and an IGO-W with Cap It All on the clone. Not sure what I'll put on the Nemi - for now it'll be an IGO-S with a 17mm Cap It All, but when funds allow, I'm considering a Kayfun mini. I used a ProVari everyday before, but the Nemesis changed my world. It's the gem of my small collection, and I'd hate for anything to happen to it.

Also for the record, I hate that these clones copy the logo - worse, a fake serial number! I could care less if people know it's a clone, and am actually up front about it, along with my reasoning behind it. I like the design, and would get a blank clone if they made one. Then again, the engravings on the clone are so bad, so shallow, maybe it'll sand off - I need to learn more about metalwork before attempting that though.

 

[JohnD0406]

I stick my tongue out at the @#%&* who cloned the 3D already! I hope he gets machine oil in his e-liquid! Well, maybe that is a bit harsh. Then again, maybe not!

Seriously? Already? Not even the semi-professional courtesy of a decent amount of time after its introduction? That's wrong on several levels. I hope to own one someday, but will not stoop to buying a clone first.

China, I assume? Sure wish the world had more power over counterfeiting in China. I used to be in the premiums business, and manufactured in China. My designs would end up in their catalogs to our competition! Sad really. Clients want to get the cost per piece so low that you have to use Chinese factories. The nerve...

 

[wiizy]

Not wanting to turn this into a clone discussion, but the topic does come up in every thread it seems. This thread is where I would expect to get the most hate for owning a clone, but wanted to get your hardcore opinion.

My first mechanical mod was an (authentic) mixed matte edition Nemesis, purchased in-person at VapeRev. I love it - the design is great, etc. (I'm preaching to the choir here). I might love it too much though. I don't use it in the car, since I drive a manual and don't want to scuff it up. I don't feel comfortable leaving it on my desk at work in fear of having it stolen. I only use it at home, or out and about where it will always be in my hand.

So, my solution to always have a Nemesis-like device I'm not afraid to get banged up or even stolen, was to get a cheap clone. Of course it's not as good as the real thing, and owning the real thing I can tell every minute difference, but it's the next best thing. If I had unlimited disposable income, I'd get two, but... reality.

I just purchased a mixed matte edition Nemi, which should be delivered tomorrow. When I have the money, I like to get something different, rather than two of the same one. I know some in this crowd have collections - must be nice to have the budget for that - wish I did too.

So, I'm against the idea of clones as a first/only device, but don't feel guilty about owning one, since I got a real one first. Any opinions in my situation? I imagine the hardcore folks would not like it, and still say "just get two" - I'm prepared for that, especially here. I just thought it would be interesting to get an opinion or two.

PS - I have an (authentic) Kayfun Lite Plus on my Nemesis, and an IGO-W with Cap It All on the clone. Not sure what I'll put on the Nemi - for now it'll be an IGO-S with a 17mm Cap It All, but when funds allow, I'm considering a Kayfun mini. I used a ProVari everyday before, but the Nemesis changed my world. It's the gem of my small collection, and I'd hate for anything to happen to it.

Also for the record, I hate that these clones copy the logo - worse, a fake serial number! I could care less if people know it's a clone, and am actually up front about it, along with my reasoning behind it. I like the design, and would get a blank clone if they made one. Then again, the engravings on the clone are so bad, so shallow, maybe it'll sand off - I need to learn more about metalwork before attempting that though.

Anodized Tube $40, cap $30, switch $30 =100 bucks @vaperev there's your work piece, the switch on the clone is poo poo

 

[JohnD0406]

Anodized Tube $40, cap $30, switch $30 =100 bucks @vaperev there's your work piece, the switch on the clone is poo poo

Yeah, the clone switch isn't great (not much about it is great really). It's improved with magnets, which were something like $2.50 for a set of 10 - figured it'd be good to have extras, watching people break their magnets on YouTube, though I did it right the first time and now have 8 magnets leftover. I then got a couple authentic magnets for the Nemesis. I want to keep the Nemesis 100% authentic, and the clone 100% clone.

I added up the costs of building one once, and if I remember, building a real one from parts was just as expensive as buying a whole one. Also worth mentioning, aluminum tubes weren't available when I got my clone. Let's see...

$30 stealth top cap
$40 anodized tube
$30 bottom button
$10 switch magnet
$20 lock ring
----------------------------
$130 total - missing anything?

I assume the top cap and bottom button assemblies are complete, and that's a complete parts list? While $130 is better than $185, it's still a far cry from $20, and I'm not sure if I'd consider a $130 mod a "beater", or not care if it were stolen, especially with an atty on top! I did consider an anodized tube for the clone, so at least the engravings are real, but really didn't seem right to mix real parts with clone parts.

Still, $130 might be a good direction to point someone new to mechanical mods and on a somewhat tight budget. Hummm....

EDIT: Wait, I think I just caught on... I bet you thought I paid $60+ for an H.Cigar clone. Spending that kind of money on a counterfeit mod is foolish IMHO. I spent $20 from FastTech with free shipping (and a one month shipping delay) - THAT's why it's a beater...

 

[Loco69]

Will the cap fit the 3D? The logo is so much more elegant and wouldn't mind switching them up if that is possible.

This gives me a reason to buy a 69

No 2 different atties....

 

[CannedWolf]

hey JohnD0406

Rather than quoting, I figured I would just write out a reply and some of my thoughts...

First and foremost, I appreciate your honesty and you being willing to share your thoughts. Not many would do that given that cloning and copying are hot topics of discussion. Also - I won't go into more detail than this one post because I don't want to derail the thread any more than I already do (I would be happy to go to PMs though)

My take is pretty simple - if it is a copy, it is never OK for anyone at any time. if it is a clone, I personally don't like them but, I understand them so, I don't have such a hard line there.

To add some detail there, a copy is another mod maker that takes the exact design, logos, etc. and remakes it. Outside of the whole "Stealing is wrong" thing (which I have a strong opinion on), copies tend to have lower quality materials and therefore perform lower. Copies can (and unfortunately are) passed off as the genuine devices to vapers that don't know the difference leading to them getting ripped off (I have seen copies be passed off at full genuine retail just to steal money from the buyer). Further, there is an issue of innovation - there wasn't a product like the 3D out there. It is amazing and performs really really well. Rather than these companies coming up with their own ideas and trying them, they steal one that works. That isn't OK.

Creating products that work and work well take time. There is design and development processes. There is testing to make sure that the product will work as expected for long periods of time. I have seen people complain about the cost of high end mods like the Nemesis before but, what they forget is that mod took at least 6 months or longer of work before the first unit was sold - many versions were built until it was just right and worked just as it should. It is made with super high quality materials and done with a small team. That effort is something you cant put a price on but is still required to have anything created. Copies steal this work and that is never OK. Not ever.

Some people have brought up the Gibson guitar cloning that happened which ultimately forced Gibson to innovate and create new technology. The difference is those clones weren't copies - they didn't counterfeit the name and markings. Sure, they took the design and remade it cheaper with lower quality materials which caused other manufacturers to create a line that was on par with the cloners - think Ovation and Applause. they look similar but, if you have played them side by side there is a HUGE difference (not unlike the clones and copies we see in this industry) - the difference is they are both made by Ovation. In order for this to work int he industry now, manufacturers would need to come up with cost efficient options that do the same or similar thing. Atmomixani did this with the aluminum tubes - you can buy one switch, cap, and ring and then get as many tubes as you want for a different look and feel for the mod substantially cheaper than buying multiple Nemesis devices.

I like to think of it like the watch industry. if you go and buy a Rolex copy it will not work as well, will clearly be identifiable as a copy, and will ultimately take more away from the original than not. If there is a Fossil or Citizen or even a Tag-Heuer that do the same thing as the copy, why not go that route?

On to clones

Clones use the same or similar technology but, don't steal markings and names. The Russian and the Russian91% are clones of the kayfun. There are literally hundreds of mods that use bottom switches that are similar to GP switches. These are clones by my definition.

I would never use a clone over the genuine device myself but, again, I understand why someone would buy a Russian91% over a Kayfun Lite. That to me makes sense and that is what I would recommend to those that cannot afford a collection like mine (not bragging here - just stating fact. I am single and make good money. THis is a hobby for me and, as such, I have many many Atmomixani devices - both battery mods and atomizers/tanks). In the vein of full disclosure, I have used clones when I first started vaping - I had a terminator that I loved. However, once I realized what that meant, I got rid of it and bought an Oddy.

Like I said, I apologize for the lengthy reply but, I wanted to be comprehensive and get as much out of my head without going on an aimless rant.

I will also not go into this much detail in this thread again (others though... watch out )

 

[JohnD0406]

I don't want to derail the thread

Derail... an Atmomixani thread? I see what you did there.

I have seen copies be passed off at full genuine retail just to steal money from the buyer

I have too, but didn't know they were clones before I got into mechanical mods. After I got my Nemesis, I started noticing things that were different about the clones in the local shops. Most of the shops admitted they were clones, although in some cases indirectly, calling it an H.Cigar Nemesis. I wouldn't have known what that meant when I was new to mechanical mods, and can see how the public is being fooled and taken advantage of. THAT needs to stop. One shop tried to convince me it was a real Nemesis. I've never been back to that shop, and talk bad about them to everyone, including employees at other shops. I hope they're out of business soon, as they're not the nicest folks when you call them out like I did.

Copies steal this work and that is never OK. Not ever.

Clones use the same or similar technology but, don't steal markings and names.

So, if I understand what you're saying, what I have is a 'copy' since it has the logo and markings, but if I sanded them off, it would be considered a 'clone'? I don't like the idea of all these 'clones' having the logos and markings. I remember Katerina (IIRC) saying something about the Nemesis angel logo being copyrighted, and they'll be able to go after anyone selling them. I hope that effort succeeds, and others take notice and do the same, forcing the clone market to simply leave off the logos & markings, or at least offer clones without markings (or come up with one of their own). IIRC, wasn't it a FT King mod clone that had a Statue of Liberty logo instead?

Talk about derailing, yeah. I think this has been educational for many people lurking in the thread - it certainly has been for me. Time to get back on track. (See what *I* did there?)

 

[JohnD0406]

Katerina (or anyone else in the know). With the recent discussion on clones, it brings up another topic. Due to the VW edition being cloned so extensively, the used marked is now suffering. Is there a Nemesis serial number registry to help authenticate used mods? I don't know if you keep track of what batches of serials were sent to what shops, but maybe a simple web form where you enter your name, your device, device model, its serial number, and where you purchased it? Just thinking out loud...

Thanks for making such wonderful products. As soon as my Nemi is delivered, I'll be the proud owner of two of your products. Hopefully there's a 3D in my future as well, but that might have to wait until August (the next 3-paycheck month - January was the other 3-paycheck month, and part of that went to the Nemi!). That is, unless you release a 26650 mod with maybe a triple-coil dripper between now and then!

 

[CannedWolf]

The registry is on the atmomixani facebopok page.

 

[Texaslimo]

There is a registry? I've been to the page but don't see any link??

 

[CannedWolf]

There is a registry? I've been to the page but don't see any link??

upper right section - they are in the notes.

 

[evgeny131]

is the clone issue even worth discussing?
my opinion: it is a total waste of time.....there is nothing that has been done about it, can be done about it, and to each their own...
those that want original mods- will buy them loyally! Others may not be able to afford them or care for that matter.....i don't feel that it's my place to pass judgement on other vapers....this was once a hobby of manners and courtesy!

 

[Loco69]

Goodmorning..at least for me..

As you know i am not fan of these discussions.
I just wann make clear something...The trademarked logo is ours(the train)...Angel we are just alloewd to use but is not our job to trademark it...Train though and name is trademarked under our business...It needs time though for some processures but is never late...
But as told before this is not something to discuss in public for many reasons...

About the registry...Unfortunately i cannot make it here with 2 topics free...But we have serial lists in our facebook page as well as in other forums..
https://www.facebook.com/pages/AtmomixaniGr/140771692721380?id=140771692721380&sk=notes
Here you can registy for you serial in the product you have,,,

 

[landman2k1]

Goodmorning..at least for me..

As you know i am not fan of these discussions.
I just wann make clear something...The trademarked logo is ours(the train)...Angel we are just alloewd to use but is not our job to trademark it...Train though and name is trademarked under our business...It needs time though for some processures but is never late...
But as told before this is not something to discuss in public for many reasons...

About the registry...Unfortunately i cannot make it here with 2 topics free...But we have serial lists in our facebook page as well as in other forums..
https://www.facebook.com/pages/AtmomixaniGr/140771692721380?id=140771692721380&sk=notes
Here you can registy for you serial in the product you have,,,

You could always do a Google Docs list... as if you needed something else to manage, lol. =)

 

[evgeny131]

i have found a more fun way to use my 69/3D hybrid....
Eliminate the Switch!....it works! simply twist the bottom tube up or down to fire.....
daaamn....that hits hard....LMAO

 

[evgeny131]

Ridiculousness...good night ecf...

 

[evgeny131]

triple check these coils for shorts before trying at home.....brings a new meaning to continuous amperage

 

[JohnD0406]

As you know i am not fan of these discussions. I just wann make clear something...The trademarked logo is ours(the train)...

Sorry about bringing it up. I was hoping it wasn't going to turn into a major discussion or flame war (as these types of hot topics often do). I'm new to mechanical mods, and am learning more about them and the community every day. You brought up another point I'd forgotten about - the train logo on the bottom of the button. Grrr... I'm going to take some heavy grit sandpaper to that first thing tomorrow morning!

But we have serial lists in our facebook page as well as in other forums..

I just entered the serial for my mixed-matte Nemeis on the facebook page, and will follow up with the Nemi serial when it arrives. Thanks for the link - I've not been to facebook much lately.

 

[CannedWolf]

In the 'for what it's worth' category, I brought both my Nemis with me on my business trip:
(I also swapped out the brass so, one is a mini Vape Pit and the other is a mini Mixed Greek)

I brought my spheroid, kayfun mini and both steam machines (dripper and VST).

I love how these perform! Since they are so small, i can bring both with plenty of extra batteries (I am in 14650 and one battery lasts while at work and one more when at the hotel) and 4 atomizers in the same amount of space that I used to only fit one nem or 69 and one atomizer with batteries.

And it performs just as good.

Absolutely love it


Now... I just need a mini VW Nemi... and a good plastic case for the 14650 batteries (I have one for my 14500 but, haven't found one for the 14650s yet)

 

[evgeny131]

In the 'for what it's worth' category, I brought both my Nemis with me on my business trip:
(I also swapped out the brass so, one is a mini Vape Pit and the other is a mini Mixed Greek)

I brought my spheroid, kayfun mini and both steam machines (dripper and VST).

I love how these perform! Since they are so small, i can bring both with plenty of extra batteries (I am in 14650 and one battery lasts while at work and one more when at the hotel) and 4 atomizers in the same amount of space that I used to only fit one nem or 69 and one atomizer with batteries.

And it performs just as good.

Absolutely love it


Now... I just need a mini VW Nemi... and a good plastic case for the 14650 batteries (I have one for my 14500 but, haven't found one for the 14650s yet)

can u please post some close ups of the steam machine, vst, and the nemi's????
very curious and jealous....