New USPS regulations.

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LowThudd

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I am a GUY from L.A. not girl. lol
v1John -- USPS definitions are at:
DMM 601 Mailability
See 11.1, Definitions.
e-liquid doesn't match the definitions for cigarettes and smokeless tobacco.

You missed one point. The point is it isn't classified as anything, yet. However, nicotine IS a toxic(hazardous) sunstance and therefore, either way this is cause for some concern. Batts also, technically aren't supposed to be shipped.
 

AngeLsLuv

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The batteries.. I mean really, if you air or international seprate it's not allowed but you can mail them, unless you have them with the chargers.. Yet human and animal specimens are legal... Friggin' stupid! I want to know who the brainless fools who come up with this sort of stuff live so I can knock on their door and smack them on the skull when they answer
 
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GtrSoloist

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I see a lot of people overly freaked out about this issue.

Let me preface my thoughts by first explaining that I have a relative retired from the Post Office, and another who is currently employed by the USPS as a Mail Carrier.

The bottom line is this: The United States Postal Service wants your business.

They are one of the few government agencies that has to be entirely self-sufficient. That means that the only income they are getting is from postage and fee's etc. They do not get *any* tax dollars, and they also deliver all inbound international mail for free.

They are hurting for business. Email has really hurt the USPS; as have their various competitors. There are lots and lots of Postal Employee's being laid off, and Post Offices that are closing due to a lack of business. Most business ship packages via UPS and FedEx.

Another fact that most people don't realize is that practically all of the First Class, Priority and Express mail is delivered via airmail.

If you really want me to, I will be happy to discuss the rules and regs with my Postal Carrier Cousin. However, if you just pack the items well (tape em' up and then zip lock em') using bubble wrap as needed you should be just fine.

They want to ship your package, really... their jobs depend on it.
 

fumama

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I agree with GtrSoloist, the USPS has been operating in the red for years and are possibly switching to a 5 day work week with no delivery on Sat. or Sun. I don't think they would turn away possible business. A lot of laws and ordinances are either archaic or put in place so that if a situation arises enforcement can be taken, but are otherwise overlooked. That's the power of discretion.
 

LowThudd

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I am a GUY from L.A. not girl. lol
I think your right, GTR. But, high nic juice(100mg) is dangerous stuff. So, I guess we just need to be extra carefull w/ that. If some 24mg juice leaks out, nobody is going to be harmed from it. But one postal worker ends up sick from high nic juice, and it will look really bad for our hobby. I guess just knowledgable caution needs to be exercized when packing.
 

GtrSoloist

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I think your right, GTR. But, high nic juice(100mg) is dangerous stuff. So, I guess we just need to be extra carefull w/ that. If some 24mg juice leaks out, nobody is going to be harmed from it. But one postal worker ends up sick from high nic juice, and it will look really bad for our hobby. I guess just knowledgable caution needs to be exercized when packing.

I've been doing a lot of reading of all the Postal and ODOT regs. I'll post some of my findings with links so you can read them yourselves because frankly my head is beginning to swim and I need some time to process and put it all together.

The question really hinges on whether or not Nicotine qualifies as an ORM-D. I think it might but further research is needed. Lets start from the beginning:

Shipping of Liquids: DMM 601 Mailability Section 2.4

Basically says you can ship liquids. Breakable containers over 4 ounces should be cushioned and sealed in plastic, blah, blah, blah. It also states it should be marked as containing liquids. (I wouldn't though.)

Hazardous Materials: DMM 601 Mailability Section 10.3 states that limited quantities of hazardous substances are mailable provided they meet the requirements of being an ORM-D, and are labeled correctly etc.

10.6 Lists the Hazards Classes. Nicotine falls under class 6.1 Toxic Substance. It then points you to 10.16.2, and I quote:

10.16.2 Mailability
Toxic substances or poisons are prohibited in international mail. For domestic mail, a Division 6.1 toxic substance or poison that can qualify as an ORM-D material is permitted when packaged under the applicable requirements in 10.16.4. Certain other poisonous materials are permitted to be mailed only between the authorized parties and under the conditions in 10.16.3.

10.16.4 Packaging and Marking
The following requirements must be met, as applicable:

a. A toxic substance that can qualify as an ORM-D material and does not exceed a total capacity of 8 ounces per mailpiece is permitted if: the material is held in a primary receptacle(s); enough cushioning material surrounds the primary receptacle to absorb all potential leakage; the cushioning and primary receptacle(s) are packed in another securely sealed secondary container that is placed within a strong outer shipping container. Each mailpiece must be plainly and durably marked on the address side with "ORM-D" or "ORM-D AIR," as applicable, immediately following or below the proper shipping name. Mailable material sent via surface transportation must be marked on the address side as "Surface Only" or "Surface Mail Only."

Nicotine can travel by air or surface per CFR 49 172.101 which is a table of all the Hazmat stuff. We need to find a key to this table and research a bit more because it should tell us if nicotine qualifies as an ORM-D, or any other possible exceptions or restrictions. It does however list Nicotine (and several derivatives) as Hazard Class 6.1.

Link is below, do a search for nicotine.

http://setonresourcecenter.com/transportation/49CFR/172_101tb.pdf

I haven't looked at batteries because frankly everyone ships them.

I still think that with proper packaging there really shouldn't be any problems. I seem to remember reading about child safety caps being a proper container for ORM-D's but can't recall the link.

Keep in mind that Nicotine is used as an organic pesticide licensed through 2014 and is classified as such.

The LD50 for Nicotine is 230 mg/Kg when tested on mice.
Caffeine has an LD50 of 230 mg/Kg when tested on hamsters.

The above LD50 data was found in the "The Merck Index, 11th edition," and is normalized to mg/Kg of animals bodyweight.
 

Hendry

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I agree that the "no shipping tobacco products" rule came from duty free cigarettes. The govt. was losing massive tax dollars and had to lean on the post office to do something about it. Now, cigarettes just go 10 miles off coast on a ship and come back "duty free", LOL. Take that, Uncle Sam :p

They didn't "lean on the post office", they passed the PACT ACT. And it was due to Indian reservations.
 

rosesense

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    I get the third degree from one clerk when I mail anything. He always asks what is in the package and if I am vague, he demands to know exactly what is in there. For instance, I said a toy when I was pushed for an answer (mailing a PV, no batteries). He paused long enough that I thought he was going to make me open the box.
     

    Lumiis

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    I work London City FD and HazMat, and I'll tell you now that the two most dangerous vehicles on the road are the UPS truck and the FedEx truck.

    Reason being these trucks don't have to put the Chemicals, Flammables, and HazCom signs on them, they also unknowingly transport thousands of different chemicals that could do an entire plethora of different things when mixed if these trucks were to say, crash?

    I think that putting restrictions on what these trucks can carry has been the best thing they've ever done.
     
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