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Newbie with so much bull out there I can't vape straight! HELP ME

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by VapBaby, Sep 4, 2013.

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  1. Racehorse

    Racehorse ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2012
    USA midwest
    I can point you to much "ad copy" on vendor sites that leaves out important stuff.

    Suffice to say that, without a lab report, it's ad copy, that is all. Sorry, but that's the truth. Organic is not necessarily better than synthetic produced lab stuff, this we already know, and there are many many topics about the differences.

    AFAIC, though, there isn't any US sourced nicotine. Not that I know of last time I looked.

    That might be a question this concerned OP might ask......if they are concerned, find out the name of the company producing the US made nicotine.
  2. VapBaby

    VapBaby Full Member

    Aug 20, 2013
    St. Louis
    I don't like how people say "Better then smoking cigs" therefore I should not seek answers or not want clean of chemicals or search for upfront companies with research behind it. Vapors don't like hearing that it is just like smoking, so why compare my smoking to no need for healthier? I just feel with so many people mixing, etc. that people can get mislead and not be able to make their own upfront, informed decisions. All things can be unhealthy, but we are talking about claims and also talking about a person just merely wanting answers that are correct to learn more and make their own choices for themselves and their family.

    I appreciate greatly the information that can be shared with me on this! Thanks Bunches!
  3. Racehorse

    Racehorse ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2012
    USA midwest
    retic, I don't think that is a valid analogy, JMHO. Flavorings aren't like vegetables that get sprayed with pesticides. Flavorings made in labs are able to have diacetyls and such removed from them, they replace those with different molecules/substances. With organic flavorings you are getting whatever is naturally occuring in them........not necessarily *better* than laboratory flavorings in SOME cases.

    I understand why I eat organic foods......but flavorings that are made to be injested, not inhaled, is sort of a different story.
  4. Racehorse

    Racehorse ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2012
    USA midwest
    This subject comes up quite often, and there is usually a lot of arguments that ensue. Best advice I can give you is to read in the DIY section. A lot of the people who make their own liquids know quite a lot about the flavorings .... many know as much or in some cases, more than some of the juice vendors.

    Then draw your own conclusions and find your sweet spot. :)
  5. anavidfan

    anavidfan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 14, 2012
    Its just seems like we are all giving opinions and all opinions and advice is being head butted with resistance. Im sorry if I offended or seem off putting, but like others stated, we can only hope that what the vendors are telling us is true. Even organic compounds are not all good for you.

    SO many people smoke for years on end, never giving a thought to what they are inhaling in the cigarettes. Then all of a sudden they hear about E-cigs and so many are almost belligerent when it comes to "knowing" whats in ejuice. ALmost as if they are trying to find an excuse to just stay with smoking.

    E-cigs are a great alternative to Nicotine intake. We dont know the long term effects and probably wont for a great many years. All we know is our experience and others here on the forum and the countless articles like the ones people have linked for you.

    ALl I know is that I feel MUCH BETTER, I dont weeze, cough or feel short of breath etc...... You will find many testimonials here. This is not always an easy transition for everyone. It takes a LOT more work to vape. But it is easier than quitting cold turkey.

    MOst of the ingredients in E-cigs are less harmful than the room fresheners we breathe in and spray deodorants we douse ourselves. The flavourings are also probably less harmful than whats in our candies and sodas and other processed foods we enjoy daily.

    Okay, theres my rant. No one can say that vaping is 100% safe, such as so many things we enjoy in life.
    SO try it , and see how you feel. It wont be easy, you might go through some sort of withdrawal as I did, you might get phlegmy, cough up junk thats been in your lungs for years etc.

    BUT , you WILL feel better and you WILL have lots and lots of good people here to help you with all your journey, if you should decide to trust. I can not go on enough about how helpful and genuinely supportive people there are here.
  6. Gary Mcroy

    Gary Mcroy Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Arnt there vendors that do natural extracted nicotine in america? I understand the lab made synthetic nicotine may not be made here but I could have swore ive seen some vendors claim to do organic tobbaco nicotine extraction through some method or another. I dunno, Im thinkin since I feel so much better after quitting cigs that its worth lettin er ride
  7. cmdebrecht

    cmdebrecht Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2013
    Saint Louis, Missouri
    I have seen juice makers who extract tobacco flavors from real tobacco, but I can't speak to the liquid nicotine.
  8. cmdebrecht

    cmdebrecht Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2013
    Saint Louis, Missouri
    Vapbaby, I don't know if there are any plants in the US that do the actal nic9extraction and liquid nicotine manufacturing. I do know, however, that liquid nicotine sold in the US is highly regulated by the FDA. I am thinking that the flavoring compounds might also be, as well as the other common ingredients of e-juice.
  9. Pstarsr

    Pstarsr Senior Member ECF Veteran

    There's alot of angst in all of vapebaby's posts. Your new but come here to argue? Your a grandma, but young? You've done your research, in how long? With google?

    Im sorry you don't understand what's going on here. I'm sorry you don't see that information on the Internet can be true, semi true, and false.

    If you want to be healthy and quit smoking, quit.

    If you want to try vaping to help you do that, great. But you don't have too, no one is forcing you to take this road. Your acting like this is your only choice and your pissed you can't get it how you want. This is how the community, and current business of ecigs is. We are trying to make it better, first there was only ejuice from china. We now have tons of us made/mixed juices.

    If the nic is coming elsewhere, that's probably the only ingredient that is for most. I'm with you I want us made liquid in my gear. But I'm not barking about misleading info and crying about wanting to be healthier yet not understanding the risk and benefits compared between vaping and smoking. No matter how we look at it, these haven't been around long enough for a full study of effects. But the studies we have are promising.

    Even if you vape these "suspect" us made juice you will be better off, even if only for the quitting process. Everyone of us here weighed things out and we made our choice. Now it's your turn. You have gotten more than enough information spoon fed to you in this thread to continue jumping down people's throats that are trying to help.

    I still vote troll, no one is this mad for a first post on a forum they just joined. If they are they don't understand the purpose of a forum and community.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Which doesn't work 50% of the time
  10. Racehorse

    Racehorse ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2012
    USA midwest
    Funny, I reviewed her posts, they are mostly questions any newbie would have, whether to use top or bottom coils, what evods match what batts, stuff like that. No angst that I can see, other than the typical confusion around all the options available to new vapers.

    Having concerns and questions isn't argumentative is it?

    We're here to help, and if somebody has concerns, even if they aren't your concerns, or my concerns, they are still VALID for that person who is asking and having them.

    The level of angst I read in newbie forum where people are trying to quit smoking is very high though, I remmeber being there myself. As a matter of fact, a kind forum member let me telephone them the first day I got my vape kit. And several people here who are now my long term forum "friends" did a lot of hand holding while I worked myself thru differnt mods and ejuices.

    Besides, pretty much every question the OP presented has been asked, over and over, here since 2010. I don't believe that is trolling. If it is, there sure have been a LOt of trolls who came to ECF to ask questions
  11. Kelevra

    Kelevra Full Member

    Aug 1, 2013
    Big Island, Hawaii
    Ok so the op does, sort of, have a valid point. As far as I know there is no U.S. company that extracts L-nicotine from U.S. grown tobacco, other than the one she brought up. However a simple trip to wizard labs lets us know where they source their nicotine from.
    Nicotine Extract
    Here is an excerpt from their website, "The nicotine base used exclusively in Wizard Labs line of solutions undergoes extraction 5-6 times per year in partnership with one of the providing labs to Johnson & Johnson's global line of NRT products for the assurance of chemical purity, quality control, and reliability." So we have a Wizard Labs out of Florida here in the good ole U.S. of A. producing usp kosher certified organic nicotine base fluid in conjunction with a multinational corporation headquartered out of new jersey. I don't know about you but that is good enough for me (especially in the context of being a smoker that inhaled literally thousands of unknown chemicals everday with out a second thought.)
  12. retic1959

    retic1959 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Perhaps not the right choice of words but I'll stand with my statement about not being able to eliminate all risks considering it was the OP that pointed out that diacetyls occur naturally in foods and eliminating pesticide is a reduction in risk not an elimination of risk entirely . Nobody knows the long term effects of vaping and all one can do is go with what is currently known regarding the reduction or elimination of harmful chemicals regarding vaping as opposed to smoking .
  13. InTheShade

    InTheShade Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 26, 2013
    South Texas
    Well said Racehorse. Even if the OP is a troll (which I do not believe), by answering truthfully, respectfully and knowledgeably we win.

    There is no need to call someone out here, we can make our points and present our facts (and opinions) without resorting to personal insults.

    I think these are all valid questions that we should all be proud the OP is asking - and indeed, asking ourselves.
    I also think we should be proud that these questions are treated seriously and given careful consideration on the forum.

    OP - carry on.
  14. VapBaby

    VapBaby Full Member

    Aug 20, 2013
    St. Louis
    Wow, First let me state that I still don't know what a "Troll" is and why I am being called? Pease explain! I spend a lot of my time reading! I came here for a support group and a knowledge base. What I don't understand is that I bring up valid points of where people are confusing with labeling their stuff 100% made complete in USA and making one feel their stuff is healthier, when in fact most of their stuff is not their own and if they are not testing, then they have no idea what they are giving you. Gosh, I just merely wanted to get some conformation on the Diacetyl and if I go with Organic extracted natural flavoring, then do I have to stay away from Butter Flavors, creamy as well as the fruits that I listed earlier that naturally contain them? With the Nicotine, I wanted to get clarification of why I am being mislead? I know nothing is certain in vaping yet and people say better then smoking, but I am being called names for making sure that I don't harm myself quicker? What is concerning is that I am getting more attacked then insight on the topics of natural flavors and what flavors to stay away from and why companies are misleading with their 100% claims and their own companies for flavor wont talk!

    I am very sad now. I joined this community to be a part of something and were most helpful in my equipment purchases, but when "Real" issues, questions are brought up, I am being slammed. Okay, maybe just a couple people, so I should speak for the others that were sincere!! Thank You!

    I just want to know what juices I should stay away from in respect to Organic Natural for the Diacetyl? I can't control the Nicotine issue, since there is no USA extracted nicotine and I will take that up with the companies that claim this.

    Did anyone read the first link I posted as well as the comments that followed the link? This is what lead to some of my questions. Made in the USA E-Liquid - Well, Sort Of ... | E-Cig Express Blog
  15. Coastal Cowboy

    Coastal Cowboy This aggression will not stand, man! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 13, 2013
    Alabama Gulf Coast
    There are a couple of vendors who do whole tobacco alkaloid extractions. They are quite pricey. I bought some from WholeCig for a DIY project and I like it a lot, but there is a lot of uncertainty about the relative safety of the WTA process and products vis-a-vis lab extracted, USP grade nicotine liquid.

    The naturally extracted tobacco liquids are a different animal altogether. They aren't ionizing the nicotine. They're merely extracting the flavor from the tobacco leaves and get very, very little nicotine in the process. Depending on how those liquids are filtered, they can foul up an atomizer in a hurry.
  16. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Feb 10, 2009
    GA by way of WV
    The case can be made that the safest eliquid on the market comes from China. Those who have been vaping for 4, 5, 6 years, in many cases, vape only Chinese eliquid, where vaping was invented. Many of us have had nothing but positive health results. Many US made eliquids are made in someones kitchen, basement, garage or bathroom. The major Chinese eliquid manufacturers use high level safe rooms. 99% of nicotine (from what I can determine) comes from China. The base ingredients in eliquid, other than the flavorings, is the same for all brands. Based on the studies from CASAA, vaping is basically safe for the user and definitely safe for bystanders.

    I'm sure this doesn't answer the OP's question but "relatively" speaking, probably vaping almost any eliquid is much safer than smoking. Here is one of the largest Chinese manufacturing facilities:

  17. Coastal Cowboy

    Coastal Cowboy This aggression will not stand, man! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 13, 2013
    Alabama Gulf Coast
    VapBaby, a "troll" is a person who posts a question or comment on a controversial topic for the purpose of stirring up a crapstorm.

    I don't think you're a troll. :)

    However, if I were you, I would stay well away from "100%, organic" flavorings. Kurt, our chemist emeritus, has some interesting comments about natural and organic flavorings and how they would probably be worse for you than the artificial flavorings.

    And, it is true that there are no US-based producers of liquid nicotine. All such facilities are in Asia and Europe. However, that doesn't mean that a vendor can't say that his liquids are "USA Made." Ingredients may come from overseas, but the process of manufacturing takes place stateside. Maybe it would be clearer if they stated that their products are mixed in the USA, in the same manner that some durable goods sold in the US carry the label, "Assembled in the USA."

    For what it's worth, the Chinese liquid manufacturers have solid QC procedures. No one in that country wants to be executed for making people sick (see Chinese Milk Scandal).
  18. VapBaby

    VapBaby Full Member

    Aug 20, 2013
    St. Louis
    Ha Ha so that is what a Troll is! Well, I think we should have a "CrapStorm" subforum then and you can put me in in lol Was not my intention to create one, and figured was legitimate questions that all would be interested in rather then defending. My husband and I have issue from time to time and a "CrapStorm" ensues, but this is how you work things present facts, questions, etc. and find a better way of doing things or to have a better knowledge of what you might have been doing wrong to start with!!!

    So, when speaking of "All Organic made in USA Claims" is it better to have a Chinese company that does this that atleast has some sort of testing and procedures to follow? I would just like to know where VV gets all the components from and to have a knowledge of their testing procedures to know that THEY KNOW exactly what is in it!

    Is it better to go with Organic Flavors vs. Lab created? If I do go with Organic, what flavors should I stay away from to stay away from naturally occurring Diacetyl?

    If I decide to go Vegetarian from a meat eater...I would think I would look for ALL Vegetarian food right? Well, I am wanting to quit the nasty chemicals, so therefore want the least and "Healthiest, Tested" chemicals (haha) I can get.
  19. Bliss Doubt

    Bliss Doubt Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 10, 2012
    San Antonio
    I got that feeling too. I did do a brief Google search, and found at least one other company saying that it's nicotine was extracted from flue cured tobacco grown in North Carolina. That was within 60 seconds. I didn't go any further, because I know I've seen other USA made nic juice. Propylene glycol is used in medical inhalers. I'll take my chances with VG.

    I think the Vaping Monkey brand does quite unapologetically use ingredients that produce diacetyl in some if its flavors.
  20. cmdebrecht

    cmdebrecht Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2013
    Saint Louis, Missouri
    Vapbaby, I am sorry you feel attacked. I have found that this forum on the whole is a very safe, positive, and encouraging place.

    I believe that part of the reason some folks have been defensive is that they are very passionate about vaping, as it has been very beneficial to them. And right now many of us are very concerned about FDA bans and regulations and Big Tobacco doing all they can to limit or eliminate our ability to purchase vaping e liquids. Folks are scared and tensions are running high.

    Your concerns are legitimate, and many of us have the same concerns. We have chosen to take a far less risk to our health and choose vaping over smoking. Perhaps it's not perfect, but we see vaping as the lesser of two evils. If you don't feel comfortable vaping, talk to your doctor about other options for quitting aids.

    If you are concerned about the ingredients of e-juice you buy, I encourage you to investigate each company you are interested in carefully. If you have questions, email the company directly. There are many fine vendors who are up front and honest about the ingredients they use and where they mix their juices (kitchen sink vs. Clean room). I suggest you post in the e-liquid forum and state tat you are looking for organic and/or all natural juices tat contain no diacetyl. Hundreds of forum members have already done the research and will gladly share vendors whom they trust to provide a vape they feel safe using.

    There is a lot of information available to us here on the forum. So much, in fact, that it can be overwhelming. But there are great folks here who are happy to help us newbies muddle through it.

    I hope you get the answers you are looking for. In the meantime, take the negativity you encounter with a grain of salt. The positive is far more helpful to you.
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