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Newbie with so much bull out there I can't vape straight! HELP ME

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by VapBaby, Sep 4, 2013.

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  1. Uncle Willie

    Uncle Willie Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Most folks come to ECF asking questions they really want answered by other folks that have some experience ..
     
  2. mr_miles

    mr_miles Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 29, 2013
    oregon
    Check out Velvet Cloud Vapors. Her / their "purity" line is 100% organic, does not use any diacetyl or coloring. They taste, and vape fantastic in my opinion as well - and when you order from them, they send you more juice to try for free!
     
  3. VapBaby

    VapBaby Full Member

    Aug 20, 2013
    St. Louis
    ahhhh haha this was not about healthy versus not healthy...vaping is not the healthiest and smoking is very much not! This was about making choices and having full understanding that is true and clear! It was about further understanding my choices of whom to choice for my "Juice" source, versus another source. I wanted some more info on Organic Natural Flavors having Diacetyl and which flavors then to stay away from...not that the others might be bad, just a question. I was commenting on being upfront and honest with vapors on the content, testing, labs, and providers so that vaping can be clear to others, without the misleading that is going on now, which might play out negatively in a new vapors mind!

    Again, this has nothing to do with healthy...as we all know what is Oxygen! People try out different juices to find better then the previous one...I am just trying to find a source for the most clean (flavor and Nic), upfront, tested, good lab, etc. juice so I can enjoy...just like you are searching for flavors! I am learning about organic flavors versus synthetic, Chinese labs versus USA mixing pots, etc.
     
  4. Coastal Cowboy

    Coastal Cowboy This aggression will not stand, man! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 13, 2013
    Alabama Gulf Coast
    Diacetyls are the product of a rapid, incomplete fermentation of sugars by yeasts and other microorganisms (none of which are pathogenic). In brewing beer or making wine, they are usually reassimilated and fermentation is usually completed by the yeast. I'm a homebrewer. In some recipes, diacetyls are a good thing because they give certain ales a character that's hard to describe. You don't ever want diacetyls in a lager.

    However, I don't think I'd want to vaporize those alcohols.

    It doesn't matter. As long as the manufacturer is meeting the USP standards, Chinese USP nic liquid is as good as the Belgian is as good as the Martian.
     
  5. NiNi

    NiNi Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 4, 2013
    Paulden, Arizona
    Vapbaby:
    Isn't it ironic that we can suck on cancer sticks for years and NOT demand that the ingredients be clearly marked on the side of the pack? LOL! "Shellac", "Pesticides", addictive "chemicals", most of us went "Whatever" and sparked up another stogie.:ohmy:
    Because we have chosen a healthier alternative, we ARE going to be suspect of claims because of our previous experience with BT.
    I've been hanging out on the DIY forum, I've learned more about the ingredients in Ejuice there than any other place, but then I haven't just "googled" the web all day either.

    I have a background in graphic design and advertising...the definitions and usage of certain terms comes down to what YOU believe a word means, and what the FDA, Ejuice supplier, e-vaper, and the law think it means.

    "All of our Nic e-juice is made in the USA."
    Most people would read that as "100% USA ingredients". But what it REALLY means is "All of our Nic ejuice (a combination of nicotine extract and/or PG and VG from anywhere in the world) is made (mixed together in a bowl, vat, or tin can) in the USA."

    "We do not put Diacetyl in any of our e-juices."
    Most people would read this as "Diacetyl free". What it REALLY means is "We don't put (add, or add additional) Diacetyl (FOUND in some flavorings, natural or otherwise, to begin with) in any of our e-juices (a combination of nic extract, PG and/or VG, and flavoring)."

    FDA's definition of "organic" and "Natural" is far different than mine, which is: I plant it, fertilize it with manure from my animals that are feed specific non-processed feeds, water it with rain and well water, and harvest with my own hands. Any company adhering to FDA's standards of those terms is a far cry from my standard. (Google definitions on FDA)
    Advertising is "Dazzle them with Brilliance/Baffle them with BS". I'm not disrespecting any company out there. Yes, there is "truth" in advertising but many people get caught up in "fiction", ie: "Come to where the flavor is,...", I'd walk a mile...", "We'd rather fight than switch", etc, etc. We're all adults, it's up to each of us individually to choose our sources of "fact" and become well informed. Otherwise, we'd be alarmists running scared of tomatoes (nicotine!!!!) and daddy long legs (one of the most toxic spiders in the world!!!!).:blink:
     
  6. Racehorse

    Racehorse ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 12, 2012
    USA midwest
    This sounds like the animal abusers in my town who when I moved here told me if I didn't like how things were then I should just leave and go back to where I came from.

    VapBaby stated that this is about choices, and in order to make a choice, she wants to know what is in her eliquids, which are going into her body.

    Why that is such an outrageous request?

    This isn't about cigarettes, or what is in them. That took decades to uncover, and I understand why vapers do not want to get back on that horse, or any horse like that.

    It's also interesting how vapers are quick to denounce BT for "poisoning" us, and are very angry about it, but god forbid a vaper should ask the same questions that should have been asked about ingredients when it comes to their eliquid. So, some do not want to make the same mistake twice. We put things in our bodies that would eventually kill us and now, we have turned over a new leaf, and learned from past to ASK QUESTIONS.

    Wanting information should not be met with defensive rhetoric. We don't smoke anymore. So it really doesn't matter what we asked or didn't ask when we were. That is in the past. Now lets move on.

    I think it is humorous how some of you want to "defend your right to vape" but seem to have a problem with another vaper's "right to know" what they are vaping. Very hypocritical.
     
  7. anavidfan

    anavidfan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 14, 2012
    U.S.
    Just as she doesnt like to be attacked or some of us have come on here to give our sincere opinions and advice and have also felt attacked by Vapebaby as well. We are not the enemy, we are not EXPERTS or are claiming scientifically backed facts, We are users same as Vapebaby.

    Vapebaby keeps coming back wanting to have 100% scientific reasons and answers that We obviously can not answer. ITs frustrating on both sides.

    We dont have money to be made by giving her the answers we have and though we all want to defend our right to vape, we dont appreciate having to defend ourselves and our choices by a fellow vaper. We all would like to know, we not just a bunch of sheep being told what we did at one time is now bad, but here this is better and take our word etc.......

    It would take a person with a lot of time and money and a good team of researchers to go around and test all the major juice companies and test them to make sure its all as its advertised.

    We are not hypocritical, we are frustrated as we are being put up against the wall to prove to her that it is safe or not. Its impossible because even love can kill.
     
  8. Bliss Doubt

    Bliss Doubt Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 10, 2012
    San Antonio
    Okay I'm back again. I read the story linked by Vapbaby, and not once does it say anywhere that Amerinic will be the first American company to produce liquid nicotine. It is all the news because it's a big merger, and really I don't like it. The story proudly boasts of "control of the chain of production", with ownership of the tobacco and the production factory. This is supposed to be an antitrust issue in this country, with the potential for anti-competitive behavior, but these days big businesses seem to get away with it.
     
  9. JulesXsmokr

    JulesXsmokr Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    another Marketing Bad Rap I see used around a lot of e-cig or vaping juice sites is some sort of attempt of a disclosure,
    Large print that says
    "Danger - may be harmful",
    or "Nicotine is poison"
    There is other wording and even the skull and crossbones face.
    A lot of people see this as if it's a major stumbling block in accepting the alternative nicotine delivery system.
    If the products are marketed by some of these sites in a normal routine way, like most products are that can cause some type of reaction that is used wrongly or improperly, I can see folks taking the high aim at vaping juice, than what would normally occur.
    We will see more of this - because of the big institutions that are directly profiting from tobacco use, they have deep pockets and will keep the fear going.
    Big money will keep research slower than it should, and keep the gov't. from letting the people decide what they want to do by themselves.
    The last I thing personally would not do is "Buy anything from A Tobacco owned company again". and look who's trying to buy a lot of e-cig companies now.
    They will want control, their way..
     
  10. retic1959

    retic1959 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    I agree, but we're about to have all our problems sorted out for us by Big Brother, the Nanny Stater's, and the FDA right? Till then vape'm if ya got'm !
     
  11. VapBaby

    VapBaby Full Member

    Aug 20, 2013
    St. Louis
    anavidfan

    WOW, I am really blown away! I am the nicest sweetest person and would like to ask you where oh where have I even the slightest attacked anyone from this board? I just wanted to know if there were places that did in fact have cleaner liquids then the others. Places where they actually tell you what is in their liquid versus misleading about it. What flavors I should stay clear of if I choice to go organic flavoring, which can't get rid of the Diacetyls. If Chinese were better the USA, since they have some sort of protocol to adhere to, that of which the USA at this time doesn't. I also asked if there were places that did testing here in the USA with the ingredients even if some came from China before their mixing.

    How very sad that I ask legit questions and it was others that kept bringing the health of vaping versus cigs, not me! I know it is healthier, but doesn't mean it still couldn't have an affect on me or maybe not? I just merely came here for insight on those topics, not to be put into a subject then later bashed for responding to it. I can only hope that if I new person comes here and unknowingly pushes a hot topic that they will be walked through with open, caring arms and not made to feel bothersome, "Troll", etc.

    :thumbs:A HUGE THANK YOU to the great people that did give me some insights or tried to help in what manner they could. :)
     
  12. Pstarsr

    Pstarsr Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Ok,

    I'm going to phrase this as amicably as possible.

    Your posts are good questions, great starters for conversation. But what I was reading, and it seems others were too. Was the disregard for the answer. The first point "we" tried to address was the ameriNic claim. But we're meet with, " I found it is the only...... This article said it was...... "

    You did that atleast 3 times, after members tried to help you understand how the ingredients are sourced, and how things can be manipulated. Claims and promises abound.

    Everything after degraded to a spitting match of what you thought you read and why can't companies provide credentials. I don't have info on any of that and can't comment. But others tried. And again were meet with hostility.

    You can back peddle, say your the nicest person. What I read is what I read. The Internet is tricky as emotion and small differences in how words are expressed are lost with out the audible/ body language associated with it. Forums take a bit of getting used too, it's like going to a new school, or starting a new job. Gotta figure out how it works and flows before you come in kicking sand and trying to shake things up.

    Don't think everyone is "greeted this way" I haven't been on here long but haven't seen such a heated "intro" thread.

    I applaud your desire for information, I applaud your desire to quit. I hope you take both good information and etiquette suggestions from this thread and become a continuing member.

    I, personally do not respond well to people that argue points that are set in shaky ground. The knowledge needed to determine everything you ask takes longer than a few nights on google. Sometimes it takes money and a system.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Which doesn't work 50% of the time
     
  13. Sambuca

    Sambuca Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 23, 2013
    Albuquerque
    i think you're missing our point, "i don't know" is about the best answer most of us can come up with.

    my cardiologist demanded that i quit smoking. i wasn't even gonna do that! i started vaping, no more cigs. the matter was a "worser" habit was replaced by a not so worse one. in my mind that equals better. to be honest, i did not tell my doctor that i started smoking e-cigs, i told him i started vaping. he was thrilled that i quit smoking. i'm not sure, however, that he understood "vaping", his reaction told me that he might as well of heard. "i started bowling"

    are there some nasty things in e-juice? good question. HOWEVER, you're depth of concern and research is far beyond what most here have gotten into. you may have better luck in the "ask a veteran section."

    we are simple folks:

    step 1) quit smoking
    2) find all day vape
    3) reduce pg for vg
    4) go organic?
    5) vape from glass only?
    6) DIY?

    i'm more concerned about the fluoride in the water, the roundup polluted GMO veggies, the factory farms with animals stuffed with GMO corn laced with roundup.

    IF, there is something dastardly in e-juice, A) is it as bad as all that stuff? or B) i nominate you to find out for us?

    BUT, i'll be vaping in the mean time. i'm happy that i already switched to all glass clearomizers, just reduced pg and finally figured out what gear i want and who the best suppliers are. for my small brain, that was a lot of work!

    i think your question is just too challenging for us here, but my question is what do you do in the mean time? (kinda makes it a smoking vrs vaping here. no one that i've seen here has recommended that a non-smoker, non-nicotine person start vaping)

    Good Luck on your quest for knowledge!
     
  14. VapBaby

    VapBaby Full Member

    Aug 20, 2013
    St. Louis
    OMG Really??? You are right about this being like High School! First, I didn't come here looking for the knowledge USA made nicotine, as I already knew that fact...there isn't! I came here with questions about trusting companies knowing they get their stuff from elsewhere, but claim other things drawing you in and if that is the fact, then can I trust the say cleanliness practices, etc. The first couple responses I got were not correct and seeing this is a informational forum, I took the liberty to discuss the findings with them. CASA has the article of AmeriNic being the first and only USA extracted Nicotine. I was trying to share my own knowledge...not that this forum is that the asker of info has no right to have info of their own or else they are deemed TROLL or uncalled for things! Wow, I actually am very sad as I was excited about this forum!! Very much so!

    I did not ask to get on a health debate, that was brought to me when I was merely looking for places that do testing, keep it real, flavors of organic to stay away from. If someone answers things, I soooo appreciate it, but if they were slightly off topic of my original quests, then I will take that info and continue to Ask and Search for the information I was looking for. Hence some of my repeats!

    I was attacked early on with the "Troll" comments, me being a grandma and young (yeah, I am 42yrs old), that I should just go and "Smoke", The whole backpedaling of nicest person thing, etc. I didn't bring any such things to you guys and would never ever ever do that to someone that is looking for answers. Please please quote one unkind thing I posted

    Thank you again to those that took the time and listed some great info and videos, etc. It was very helpful. I still have some facts that many just might not know, but I will keep em to myself I guess! I really wanted to be a vapor surrounded by a great community, now I have this Evod and Esmart laying her and a totally crushed feeling from members of this board! : (
     
  15. Caridwen

    Caridwen ECF Moderator Senior Moderator Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jan 15, 2011
    You got a great deal of assistance from many member in this thread. Many went out of their way to assist you, did research for you, and posted links. I assume you questions were answered.
     
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