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Newbie with so much bull out there I can't vape straight! HELP ME

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by VapBaby, Sep 4, 2013.

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  1. AngiBe

    AngiBe Vapeaholic Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2013
    Indy, IN
    I completely understand your feelings right now because I was/am going through this too. I've tried to quit cigs so many times and failed. Came across Ecigs and was so excited...this can help me AND be a replacement for stress times, w/a few cocktails.... B&M places I visited told me it was completely safe, no worries, life is great then WHAM.. Questions start to roll in your head. You do more research and go "wait a minute...this stuff maybe ok to injest, but what about inhaling..."

    Like you, I posted some questions and did get some snarky comments, was called a troll and someone even stated to just go smoke again..LOLOL, great support there! I've got thick skin, I'm very out spoken and kept on posting and did NOT start smoking again. But honestly, all the peeps on here are super cool and want to help. We're all in the same boat but some of us only have paddles and are going slow w/all of this and some have huge engines and are taking off. It's just your comfort level. Some of the vets forget what it's like to be newer, having HUGE nic cravings and just scared of the unknowns. And the vets worry that not so positive comments puts a bad spot light on vaping. I only think it makes us stronger by discussing, researching and hopfully solving/improving potential issues.

    No one can give you the answer you want. You need to keep researching & go at your own pace. It's normal and ligit to question what you thought, read or was told was 100% safe. I can not say w/100% certainty it is. But I do know w/100% certainty cigs are not safe so I won't be going back to that route..EVER!

    Stay strong, keep researching/asking questions if it makes you comfortable. But if the answers your looking for aren't found, don't get discouraged. No one here is hiding truths, it just may not be known yet...
  2. Sdh

    Sdh ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Aug 31, 2010
    Flavors Without Diacetyl | Flavors
    Nature flavors states these flavors are diacetyl free.
    I DIY my own elquid. I use Hangsen flavorings that are designed for vaping.
  3. CommaHolly

    CommaHolly Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jun 22, 2012
    Plant City, FL
    Well, as usual, I can see both sides of this thing LOL,,,,it's a curse, I tell you :)

    Vap Baby, I'm so sorry you felt attacked,,,,,,,,,really,,,,,,,,this is an amazing community with fantastic people :)

    The fact is,,,,,,,,we DO have trolls here,,,,,,,,people representing the ANTZ who come here just to make trouble,,,,,

    unfortunately,,,,,,,that means we see trolls where there aren't any sometimes :(

    Hugs,,,,,,,keep coming back,,,,,,,really, this is a fantastic board!
  4. Abbell

    Abbell Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 30, 2013
    Kansas City, MO
    I also like flavor companies that don't use food coloring, although I do have a few still that do.

    Here is something interesting from one of the suppliers I like

    Perfumer's Apprentice

    They also do a VERY good job about listing any potentially troublesome ingredients in every flavor.
  5. Bill's Magic Vapor

    Bill's Magic Vapor Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 8, 2013
    If I were that worried about vaping, I wouldn't vape. I disagree with your concerns on the safety of vaping, the ingredients, the nic, and just about everything else you are worried about, and have done years of research, and am completely satisfied about the risk to me. The truth is that the Standard American Diet is many times more dangerous than vaping, has led to an epidemic in obesity and catatrophic health care issues, and, of course, is at least two magnitudes more dangerous than smoking, which most of us used to do with abandon. I'm not sure we can live perfectly healthy in the Modern World, no matter what we do. There's always going to be a modicum of health risks. Anyway, hope you find your way and get some satisfaction to your queries. I love vaping and think it probably saved my life. Power up and vape on!
  6. Topwater Elvis

    Topwater Elvis Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2012
    Yes, it is a blog by the owner/employee of an ecig company where he has free rein to bash everyone else's products and pimp his.
    Sure he raises a few legit concerns but seems to use alarmist tactics to answer those concerns with buy from us everyone else is selling you nasty tasting poison of unknown quality.

    No one has said vaping is 100% safe, no one knows if there are long term hazards, what we do know is it is a safer alternative to inhaling the known toxins and carcinogens that cigarette smoke contain.

    Vaping is still in its infancy stage, if studies continue as time goes by we will know more. There are no long term studies (10 ~ 30 year) to reference when discussing the possible long term risks or benefits of inhaling ejuice from any manufacturer in the world.

    Vaping is not for everybody, if your concerns of the risks outweigh your perceived benefits you should try another method to quit smoking.
    There are dozens of supposedly safe 'approved' methods to quit smoking, of course those have side effects and risks too.

    To me and only to me, what is not in the juice I vape (known toxins & carcinogens from burning tobacco ) is sufficient enough harm reduction for me to make the decision to vape.
    Almost everything you ingest / inhale comes with some level of risk, some folks can die from eating a hand full of good ol USA organic grown peanuts.
  7. Coastal Cowboy

    Coastal Cowboy This aggression will not stand, man! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 13, 2013
    Alabama Gulf Coast
    ANTZ = Anti Nicotine and Tobacco Zealots (for the newbs).

    I would strongly encourage you not to go the organic route for flavorings, due to the information provided by Kurt, who is a chemist and who posts often in the DIY forum.

    IMO, there are very few serious safety risks associated with vaporizing, especially when compared to smoking. But a major reason why the safety level is so much higher is because all of the ingredients are either USP (United States Pharmacopeia) grade VG, PG and nicotine or Food Grade flavorings. If they're not USP or Food Grade ingredients, or if the supplier won't say whether they are or aren't, then don't buy their stuff.

    Organic foods may be safer than conventionally grown foods. Organic flavorings meant to be vaporized and inhaled are something different, especially if they're "naturally extracted" and outside of the process used by USDA to classify them.
  8. VapBaby

    VapBaby Full Member

    Aug 20, 2013
    St. Louis
    Is there any e liquids out there that use Flavors that are free of food colors, free of synthetic preferred (why not) that use a facility that is highest QC? I am talking about not mixing bottles of liquid in my own "basement lab" but rather one like in the video that was posted earlier? Are there USA labs that import the nicotine from say China and do the rest of the mixing using USA organic VG with Natural in a very controlled facility like the video above?

    Again, what flavors should I stay away from in the Organic Natural Flavors that would contain Diacetyl...because they can't remove it?

    I want to go with Virgin Vapors, but concerned now with the claims (I quoted below) that just can't be fact. I don't care if fact is bad and ugly as long as I can count on it as being fact for my own right of choice. I choice to vap which is not clean like oxygen, but still better then cigs, so why not find a e-juice that is better then the others as well right?

    "No part of our e-liquid is manufactured in China because, while China produces many wonderful products, we do not feel the quality control is reliable enough for inclusion in a Virgin Vapor e-liquid. Our nicotine is 100% U.S.A made from hand picked tobacco leaves grown in North Carolina."

    "None of my e-liquids contain artificial flavorings, artificial colors, artificial sweeteners or stevia. They are guaranteed to be free of diacetyl, diacetyl substitutes or analogues such as butter starter distillate or diacetyl trimmer"

    See, this is of concern, being that all natural organic can't be guarenteed to be free of diacetyl and the statement of USA made nicotine.
  9. Bliss Doubt

    Bliss Doubt Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 10, 2012
    San Antonio
    Okay, I'd like to get to the bottom of this. Freedom Smoke USA states "99.998% Pure Nicotine extracted from American Tobacco leaves. Created from the highest quality tobacco, this juice is as pure as it gets". RTS Vapes states "USA Extracted Liquid Nicotine". Mount Baker Vapor offers "236 ml Unflavored Nicotine Juice USA made ". Ippukue cigs states "Our nicotine extract is 100% U.S.A made, and is derived from handpicked tobacco leaves grown in North Carolina." Ejuice USA states "Providing easier, more affordable ordering options for made in the USA liquid nicotine (a.k.a. ejuice) for electronic cigarettes." Premium Liquid Nicotine states "Our premium, made in the USA liquid nicotine is made of only the finest ingredients." Virgin Vapor states "Our nicotine is 100% U.S.A made from hand picked tobacco leaves grown in North Carolina." Am I missing something?

    I wouldn't just swallow something from an ecigexpress blog. Ecigexpress has products to sell, and perhaps casting doubt on all other sellers will help them.

    I was aware early on that some "made in USA" eliquids use China sourced nicotine liquid, and are getting away with fudging their claims. In this search I was careful to look only for the actual nicotine juice.

    And here is a recent study attesting to the safety of vaping, which is NOT the first: CASAA: New study confirms that chemicals in electronic cigarettes pose minimal health risk

    I'll repeat here that propylene glycol has long been used in medical inhalers.

    I do wish all the eliquid makers would stop using artificial colors. To me, it is an unnecessary risk.

    The thing I found out, which caused me to form a real intention to stop smoking, is that radioactive pesticides are used on tobacco crops in foreign countries. If, like me, people are buying cigarettes online, and the packages are coming from eastern European countries, they're probably getting residual radioactive pesticides in every stinky stick.
  10. Uncle Willie

    Uncle Willie Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I spent a good amount of time actively looking for USA nic extraction facilities and found zero other than for pesticide use .. It is bothersome that some nic solution providers as well as liquid makers would have you believe their product is 100% USA by using nebulous language in their descriptions and what not ..

    Does it matter in the scheme of things .. ?? Not really ..

    My advice .. ?? if you are considering ordering from a USA vendor that you are uncertain about on their claims, send them an email before ordering and ask .. "Please tell me if your liquid is 100% made from 100% USA produced ingredients before I place an order .. ?"

    If they say yes, I'd think they are lying .. if they say no, they are being truthful .. if you get no reply, well, you decide ..

    China is the largest producer of tobacco in the World .. they invented the e-cig (well, an American did come up with the idea originally) .. I have no qualms about Chinese nic ..
  11. Coastal Cowboy

    Coastal Cowboy This aggression will not stand, man! Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 13, 2013
    Alabama Gulf Coast
    I'll post the link again:

    At best, claims of organic, all natural methods are misleading at best; potentially dangerous at worst.

    Of the US liquid manufacturers, only two are ISO:9000 certified (Google that if you're unsure what that means). The only one I've bought from is Johnson Creek. Their Red Oak line uses 100% USP grade Vegetable Glycerin. I can't recommend them highly enough.

    Their quality control is outstanding. The consistency of their liquids is top notch. Every bottle comes with a shrink wrap safety/freshness seal and in glass bottles, each with a lot number stamped on the label.

    This is all I can do to help.
  12. State Of Zen

    State Of Zen Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 14, 2013
    I totally agree with everything you just said! I too carry the curse of seeing both sides, that is why I was "liking" comments on both sides. lol I finally just gave up "liking" the comments... until I read yours. This is exactly what I would've posted. Peace and vape on all! :toast:
  13. moondragon

    moondragon Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 26, 2012
    Vapbaby, for what it's worth, here's my 2 cents... First, only you can decide whether the perceived risks from vaping are worth it for you to use as a way to stop smoking. For myself, I see it as a form of harm reduction, which is good enough for me. In the past I had tried just about all the other methods (with the exception of Chantix) and vaping is the only method which has successfully worked for me.

    Second, if you are not happy with the response from a particular vendor (or with what they post on their site), try a different vendor - there are many to choose from. Personally, I mainly just stick with 2 vendors for my everyday e-liquid - one which is a local vendor (they have a shop in my area) and that is where I first got my equipment and e-liquid, and I like the specific flavor from them that I started with. I don't know what ingredients are in that flavor, or where they get their nicotine from, but I don't really worry about that a lot. The second vendor I use posts information on their site about their nicotine base, including a certificate of analysis, however that was not the primary reason I chose them (though it is reassuring). I've stayed with these vendors because of convenience, products offered, customer service and e-liquids that I like and can vape all day.

    The best way to know "what it is" that you are vaping, if that is a big concern for you, is to do it yourself, although I haven't felt comfortable enough yet to move into that arena (and I'm not sure if I would recommend it for someone brand new) there are a lot of people here who make their own e-liquid, and there is a great DIY forum here with a lot of experienced members. This is also the general e-liquid forum.

    As an aside, I just found out that a new local shop in my area is carrying Virgin Vapor e-liquid, and I may pick up a few bottles this week. I like the taste of several of their e-liquids, but it is more expensive than what I usually buy, so I only get their e-liquid once in a while when I want something special.

    I hope that you are able to find your comfort level.
  14. DeeDee1234

    DeeDee1234 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 8, 2013
    Nicotine Extract

    Nicotine Extract
    Product Name: Organic Nicotine Solution
    Chemical Formula: C10H14N2
    CAS#: 54-11-5
    Color: Clear to Pale Yellow
    Chemical Name: Nicotine
    Synonyms: (-)-Nicotine; L-Nicotine; S-(-)Nicotine; (S)-Nicotine; (-)-3-(Methyl-2-pyrrolidyl)pyridine;(S)-3-(1-Methyl-2-pyrrolidinyl)pyridine; 1-Methyl-2-(3pyridyl)pyrrolidine; 3-(NMethylpyrrolidino)pyridine; beta-Pyridyl-alpha-Nmethylpyrrolidine

    USP grade Organic Nicotine extract minimum >99.8% diluted in a carrier base of Propylene Glycol and/or vegetable derived Glycerin for research and product applications. The nicotine base used exclusively in Wizard Labs line of solutions undergoes extraction 5-6 times per year in partnership with one of the providing labs to Johnson & Johnson's global line of NRT products for the assurance of chemical purity, quality control, and reliability. Ingredients: Pure USP grade organic nicotine extract, USP grade Kosher certified Propylene Glycol and/or USP grade Kosher certified vegetable Glycerin carrier base fluid. Wizard Labs nicotine solutions contain no other preservatives or chemical additives.

    Wizard Labs is committed to providing the highest quality organic nicotine extract solutions for independant research and product applications. All of our concentrated Nicotine solutions are intended for use by trained and qualified personnel only.

    uper concentrated water-soluble flavorings perfect for use with our solutions and base fluids. Except where noted, all of our concentrated liquid flavorings are made using FDA approved artificial and natural flavorings and extracts. Some of our concentrated flavorings contain non-FDA approved enhancers and flavorings designed for use in the curing and flavoring of raw tobacco and will be noted as such in the flavoring description.

    We only sell undiluted concentrated flavorings direct from the manufacturer. Some flavorings are extremely potent and may need to be diluted down to less than one percent before direct application. Most flavorings reach their peak between 5-10% with a few exceptions. Begin with a baseline of 5% and adjust up or down depending on results.

    None of our concentrated flavorings contain Diacetyl, or any of the related flavoring chemicals that are known health hazards.

    Nude NIc and the do premix aswell

    Founded in early 2012, Nude Nicotine is an electronic eLiquid manufacturer that prides ourselves in the purity and validated contents of our nicotine liquid. Unlike any nicotine liquid manufacturer on the market, we publish chemical data on our eLiquid for the public to see. We run each lot of nicotine through HPLC or LCMS (laboratory techniques to analyze an unknown for chemical content) to ensure only the desired chemical ingredients are present, no unwanted contaminants or degradation products. No diacetlys, no beta-carbolines, no nitrosamines, never. We believe all “vapers” deserve the same validated chemistry and purity in an eLiquid that rivals the quality control specifications of an FDA-approved Nicotine Replacement Therapy (NRT) solution. View our certificate of analysis here. In addition, we never dilute our eliquids with water – Nude Nicotine eliquids are truly nude as they should be – only containing propylene glycol (PG), vegetable glycerin (VG), (nicotine), and flavoring. No hidden ingredients.

    Our nicotine base is obtained from biochemists whose products are analytically tested for content, contaminants, and overall chemical profile, while each and every other ingredient is carefully selected from US Pharmacopeia (USP) verified sources, and is subsequently tested for purity by HPLC or LCMS. In addition, each batch of Nude Nicotine eLiquid is chemically tested for nicotine content and published on our label. And we stand by these results. Guaranteed.

    And the hard work pays off. Unlike other eLiquids that leave unwanted residue, appear murky, or contain unpublished ingredients, Nude Nicotine eLiquid appears pure every time, tastes true to its flavor, and comes with none of the uncertainties of an unvalidated product, guaranteed. Our eLiquids are also hand prepared in beautiful Southern California by proven biotechnologists to our exact recipe, using specialized laboratory equipment and proper technique.

    We even work closely with industry-leading local flavor chemists to produce the most unique and delectable flavorings available on the market. Not only are our flavor chemicals hand-selected for purity and solubility, we pride ourselves in the careful formulation of only the best tobacco, fruit, and menthol extracts. And each one is specifically formulated for use in an electronic cigarette use, giving our flavoring base a leap in quality over others. Enough talk, lets us show you how proper flavor chemistry can influence your vaping experience!

    We invite you to try our eLiquid and tell us how it stands up to the competition. Have a look at our “Flavor Menu” to browse our ever-growing list of delectable flavorings, as well as the eCig/eLiquid Tips and Tricks page for helpful vaping hints from our chemists and sales staff.

    And as always, if there is a specific nicotine concentration or solvent ratio that you require, and cannot find on the site, please contact us! We are happy to fill custom orders and prepare our Nude Nicotine eLiquid to your liking.

    Happy Vaping from all of us at Nude Nicotine!
  15. JohnnyDill

    JohnnyDill Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
  16. PhoenixD

    PhoenixD Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 23, 2013
    Austin TX
    Hello, I have only been Vaping for 11 days so am no expert, but what I would suggest is to just weigh the pros and cons that you know of--pros of smoking, cons of smoking, pros of vaping, cons of vaping.

    Like, are you planning to quit smoking and do vaping instead? If so, is your ONLY reason to start vaping that for you it sounds like "the healthiest way to do it"? Also look into the idea that there are various levels of "healthiness". For example, for years I ate lots of healthy veggies (as opposed to junk foods etc), then in later years I switched to "organic healthy veggies" does that mean those years of non-organic were "unhealthy"? Not necessarily. Also for years I heard that drinking plenty of water is good for you so I did that too. Nowadays I don't touch the tap water from my town, I go to a market and buy RO water. But it doesn't mean that when I drank all that tap water it was as unhealthy as the previous diet cola drinks I downed per day. lol So you need to decide things like that for you.

    I have to say I took it up (vaping) as a hobby (I also smoke) and like anyone I am concerned about the "healthiness" of my new hobby, but heck, a lot of the things I do or have done have not been the healthiest :-(

    Maybe if you sit down and think about other reasons you want to do vaping besides just this one ("seems healthy") you will then have your answer if you want to do it or not. Hope those ideas help you! Have an A1 Day!
  17. JulesXsmokr

    JulesXsmokr Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Is the amount of dicetyl or other substances in some of the juices out there so large as to have an impact on our health, or is the amount just a miniscule number that is being touted by some as a potential really harmful substance. ( current products mind you )
    Just because something is present in the vape, does not always mean it will effect your health while vaping it.
    I vape because it is 1000 times safer than smoking a cigarette. All the current info does show this.
    "AND" as this science of vaping grows, it will be even getting safer to do also..
    That is all
    small rant - my wife bought 6 samples of their " no name here" 100%VG organic juice line, and I don't care for the taste of any of them.
  18. patkin

    patkin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Nov 6, 2012
    Arizona USA
    If your lungs are your concern, then don't inhale flavored juices if that will make you feel better. Inhaling is not necessary anyway as the nic is absorbed by mouth and nasal tissues or any other skin it touches including fingers. That's exactly why gum, chew, dip and patches deliver it and gloves are worn when DIYin with high mg nic. I only inhale unflavored, if I'm in the mood to inhale... ie: want that cig feel, and enjoy my flavored juices by holding in my mouth and exhaling via my nose.

    Edit: Also, any source of nic must meet USA standards to be sold here. If there is no USA manufacturer of nic, then it follows that BP (big pharmacy) is also using foreign sources for their gum and patches.
  19. Sambuca

    Sambuca Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 23, 2013
    if you are bound and determined that "something" is wrong with vaping, then...

    to paraphrase Dori, "just keep smoking, just keep smoking, etc..."

    cuz, that's safe, right?
  20. JulesXsmokr

    JulesXsmokr Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    does it matter if the nicotene base is produced somewhere else, most if not all, are getting U.S. testing done on the product. Look for the lab sheet , I've seen them before on websites, and you can get them by asking for them.
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