Newly Redesigned 510LR Atties - SAMPLES on the Way!

[Crystallas]

Okay, so since we are nearing the customer batch-testing phase(for the lack of a better term).

Do we have a criteria on what kind of feedback that you want?
Do you want reactions open disclosure(for example, I'm on the ECF IRC chat every day) and am I able to share the experience?

I'm excited. Good atties make all the difference in the world, and at a good price is even better.

 

[mwa102464]

Looks like we might be nearing launch time on these - and they might be within the proper resistance range to work with the Rivas without killing the batteries (these are not like your average 510LR's with regards to resistance, these will be perfected)! David is in the first phase of testing the new 510LR's, and as long as they pass his testing, the samples should be released shortly thereafter!

So your saying these LR Attys will only draw 1 AMP EMRocks ???? There going to have to be at lease 2+ ohms then I would think, I could be wrong here but I think anything less then 2ohm's will still draw upwards of 2Amps, especially if there 1.5-1.6 ohm like Di is stating in her post, please fill us in a bit more if you can on just how these will not kill a Mosfet type Battery like the Riva uses,, using these 1.5-1.6 ohm Atty's if you would I'm very interested, is there some sort of new innovation these Atty's will have ???

 

[EMRocks]

So your saying these LR Attys will only draw 1 AMP EMRocks ???? There going to have to be at lease 2+ ohms then I would think, I could be wrong here but I think anything less then 2ohm's will still draw upwards of 2Amps, especially if there 1.5-1.6 ohm like Di is stating in her post, please fill us in a bit more if you can on just how these will not kill a Mosfet type Battery like the Riva uses,, using these 1.5-1.6 ohm Atty's if you would I'm very interested, is there some sort of new innovation these Atty's will have ???

I don't know for sure yet, but I don't think they are technically being "killed". I believe what is happening is that the protection circuit (safety switch) is being triggered if it senses that the battery has been subjected to conditions outside of a certain tolerance. The "dead" batteries that have been tested have all read 3.2v - 3.7v on a meter, indicating that they are charged and should be able to discharge normally without issue. But at this point, they can't be used anymore because the light starts blinking as soon as any atomizer is attached, possibly indicating that usage is being prevented, not that the battery does not have capacity. This seems to me to be an indication that the safety switch is preventing further usage, believing that something occurred which could have damaged the battery and rendered it unsafe for continued usage.

The tolerance COULD be something like 1.3 ohms - 2.2 ohms. Anything above or below that tolerance would trip the protection circuit and disable the battery permanently.

Now, as I said, I don't know any of this 100% for sure yet. I'm still testing and looking into this.

 

[EMRocks]

In other words (the short version): it seems like the PCB is being activated by something that causes it to think an unsafe event has possibly caused damage to the battery, so the unit is disabled to prevent usage of a potentially damaged battery which could leak.

1 ohm could be considered too little resistance, and thus a near-short. It may not be as much about how much power is being drawn from the battery, as it is about whether or not the battery is being shorted out (which go hand-in-hand, I know, but it's most likely measuring a resistance).

The biggest complaint we were getting about the bad batch of 510LR atties was that the resistance was way lower than it was supposed to be (which is probably why the atties themselves burned out faster).

 

[mwa102464]

EMR,

Absolutely, I can feel what your saying here, but that protection circuit is doing exactly what it should be doing the way I see things here, it is cutting off power because of the over-stressing from the Amperage being drawn from the lower resistance Atty's, hence this Mosfet type Battery would definitely do the same, it would eventually vent, leak, pop, something not good yet manufactures keep building them the cheaper way (somethings wrong with this). your wanting to change the PCB to not break in order to keep the unsafe batt going is not the way to go here the way I see it

I still say using something like an IMR 14500 ( or Bigger ) for our power cell would be the way to go, the IMR is the safest and best Batt for these lower resistance Atomizers do to there Chemistry make up. Why not build a unit with the correct Battery right off the get go and ditch this Moafet battery, ya there cheap and there a good cell for a regular Atty of up over 2+ ohms to 3 ohms but with the Atomizers we are all using (not me) I like a 2 ohm @ 4.2v-4.4V and think this is a much better vape, anyway back on subject seeing how good the quality of AW (Panosonic) batteries are these days and being the leader in the industry why not put out this Riva type Batt with the biggest IMR available to fit inside of the housing and run with this set up.???

No more CS issues (money saver) There would be no further issues at all, everyone would be more then happy, (no more PCB blown & ya I agree your batt is still going to take and keep a charge but what a waste here because the PCB's are going to keep blowing no matter what then we end up with still a good batt with a bad PCB which is MANDATORY with this Mosfet style batt BUT WE CANT USE IT so don't try adjusting what is meant to work the way it is to save a battery that won't handle the Amp draw (right))

The IMR Batteries would be of the highest quality available in today's market and are made of a very safe chemistry. $$$ Cost wise were talking here is very little when you compare the entire set up of this Mosfet type compared to a QUALITY IMR, I think as cheap as it cost to make these Riva type batts which are wonderful little units I have a bunch of them, I and everyone else vaping would pay the small difference to have not only the correct battery for the LR use but one that will also last, be safe, as well as provide an unbelievable vape, it is the power cell to use bar none !!!???

Just my 2c worth here but in reality it would solve all of this very quickly, no more CS issues, testing,spending all your time on this, Just offer an LR Batt in the Riva. It would sell like sliced bread and no more customer issues, plus it would absolutely give all of us not only piece of mind safety wise but give us the best vaping experience which is most important after safety and what we are all looking for.

My vote is on the biggest IMR that can fit inside ( the housing ) not only the standard Riva but also the bigger versions, there are plenty of battery manufactures over in shenzhen China making batteries and I'm more then sure the one even David is using could very easily make this simple change or move to one that can ( He has the connections I'm sure of it) .

Talk to me EMRocks, I would enjoy hearing what you have to say about my thoughts here !


Regards,

MWA102464

 

[Snowball]

Sorry for barging in on the discussion, a friend of mine convinced me to try vaping and I'm about to pull the trigger on my first order on EM.. He let me try out a bunch of stuff and I really liked the LR atty he got from EM but he told me they were out of stock and that they wouldn't come back anytime soon..

Then I tripped over this thread .. Am I correct in surmising you'll soon have a new (and improved, by the sound of it) batch of LR510's? Is there an ETA for them? I would much rather order everything in one go (save on shipping) and be set for a few months (and I get the feeling my friend would want me to order an extra pack for him). Any info you could provide would be welcome.

Off-topic: I noticed Riva's standalone AC wall charger/adapter comes in both US and Euro plug varieties, but there's no similar option on the kits. Is it possible to order a Riva 1100 kit with an Euro plug?

 

[EMRocks]

EMR,

Absolutely, I can feel what your saying here, but that protection circuit is doing exactly what it should be doing the way I see things here, it is cutting off power because of the over-stressing from the Amperage being drawn from the lower resistance Atty's, hence this Mosfet type Battery would definitely do the same, it would eventually vent, leak, pop, something not good yet manufactures keep building them the cheaper way (somethings wrong with this). your wanting to change the PCB to not break in order to keep the unsafe batt going is not the way to go here the way I see it

I still say using something like an IMR 14500 ( or Bigger ) for our power cell would be the way to go, the IMR is the safest and best Batt for these lower resistance Atomizers do to there Chemistry make up. Why not build a unit with the correct Battery right off the get go and ditch this Moafet battery, ya there cheap and there a good cell for a regular Atty of up over 2+ ohms to 3 ohms but with the Atomizers we are all using (not me) I like a 2 ohm @ 4.2v-4.4V and think this is a much better vape, anyway back on subject seeing how good the quality of AW (Panosonic) batteries are these days and being the leader in the industry why not put out this Riva type Batt with the biggest IMR available to fit inside of the housing and run with this set up.???

No more CS issues (money saver) There would be no further issues at all, everyone would be more then happy, (no more PCB blown & ya I agree your batt is still going to take and keep a charge but what a waste here because the PCB's are going to keep blowing no matter what then we end up with still a good batt with a bad PCB which is MANDATORY with this Mosfet style batt BUT WE CANT USE IT so don't try adjusting what is meant to work the way it is to save a battery that won't handle the Amp draw (right))

The IMR Batteries would be of the highest quality available in today's market and are made of a very safe chemistry. $$$ Cost wise were talking here is very little when you compare the entire set up of this Mosfet type compared to a QUALITY IMR, I think as cheap as it cost to make these Riva type batts which are wonderful little units I have a bunch of them, I and everyone else vaping would pay the small difference to have not only the correct battery for the LR use but one that will also last, be safe, as well as provide an unbelievable vape, it is the power cell to use bar none !!!???

Just my 2c worth here but in reality it would solve all of this very quickly, no more CS issues, testing,spending all your time on this, Just offer an LR Batt in the Riva. It would sell like sliced bread and no more customer issues, plus it would absolutely give all of us not only piece of mind safety wise but give us the best vaping experience which is most important after safety and what we are all looking for.

My vote is on the biggest IMR that can fit inside ( the housing ) not only the standard Riva but also the bigger versions, there are plenty of battery manufactures over in shenzhen China making batteries and I'm more then sure the one even David is using could very easily make this simple change or move to one that can ( He has the connections I'm sure of it) .

Talk to me EMRocks, I would enjoy hearing what you have to say about my thoughts here !


Regards,

MWA102464

Well, I really wasn't suggesting changing the PCB to accommodate unsafe accessories. Just as you said, the PCB is in fact doing it's job by preventing a potentially damaged battery from continuing operation. Safety is always going to be more of a priority than hacking the PCB to operate under unsafe conditions. There would be safety concerns, as well as liability concerns with personal injury and property damage. Any ignorance of that fact by changing the product to operate in an unsafe manner would be not only futile, but dangerous, and I'd never suggest pushing a dangerous product out to the market. I'd rather see the batteries become disabled than to see people get hurt any day. That said, the defective batch of 1 ohm LR atomizers seems a likely cause at this point - or ALL LR atomizers could be - I don't know the tolerance of the PCB, so I can't answer that.

What I was suggesting is that the new batch of 510LR atomizers may very well fit into the proper tolerance (let's just say the tolerance is already hypothetically 1.3 ohms - 2.3 ohms, and the new 510LR's are 1.5 ohms - 1.6 ohms). In this scenario, we would fit into the safe range.

I'm not opposed to the use of IMR batteries, however, I don't have enough pull to make such a thing happen. I could make a proposal, but it wouldn't have much influence without a rock solid, water tight case backing it. I'm not saying your argument isn't valid, but I'm saying that it's going to be cheaper to fix the atomizers to work with the batteries, than it is to change the batteries to work with every defective, whacked out atomizer some random supplier might be selling.

It's not simply a matter of switching out the internal batteries and popping them into the same casing, we'd be talking about completely re-engineering the devices altogether, changing the entire manufacturing process, reprogramming the PCB's, testing, etc., which comes at a very high cost of both time and money, which would naturally have to be passed back onto the consumers in order to have a chance at turning a profit. The price difference wouldn't simply be the difference between the current mosfet batteries vs. new IMR batteries.

The question certainly isn't "would more people buy it?", the question is more "would enough people buy it to at least break even on the engineering and material costs?". I know it would be easy to jump in and say "YEAH IT WOULD!" if you were hell bent on having a product like this in your hands, however it has to be an almost sure thing from a business standpoint, after market research vs. researching the costs of implementing such a thing.

Which makes more sense at this point? Fixing the atomizers, or re-engineering the batteries?

 

[EMRocks]

Sorry for barging in on the discussion, a friend of mine convinced me to try vaping and I'm about to pull the trigger on my first order on EM.. He let me try out a bunch of stuff and I really liked the LR atty he got from EM but he told me they were out of stock and that they wouldn't come back anytime soon..

Then I tripped over this thread .. Am I correct in surmising you'll soon have a new (and improved, by the sound of it) batch of LR510's? Is there an ETA for them? I would much rather order everything in one go (save on shipping) and be set for a few months (and I get the feeling my friend would want me to order an extra pack for him). Any info you could provide would be welcome.

Off-topic: I noticed Riva's standalone AC wall charger/adapter comes in both US and Euro plug varieties, but there's no similar option on the kits. Is it possible to order a Riva 1100 kit with an Euro plug?

Yes, we will have the new 510LR's very soon, they are in production and phase 1 of testing, assuming they pass phase 1, phase 2 of testing will be public testing via samples. This is actually the second batch of 510LR's to go into phase 1 testing - David didn't like the resistance on the first batch. So far, after nearly a week of testing, he seems to be liking them this time though

Not sure if you can order kits with an EU plug, however, they will work with any standard US to EU adapter, which should be cheaply available at any department store in your area

Welcome to the Eastmall family, and happy vaping! We'll be happy to have you around!

 

[perpetua]

I'm holding off from placing another large order for the group I shop for, whilst the LR510
'glitch' is being resolved, had to send a few of the old problematic ones back, Selina has been
superb in resolving this issue I have to say.

Am not to worried about trying the re-designed ones, but I will be very interested to hear
what the feedback is on them from everyone that gets the chance to test.

I've felt for some time now, that not caning just the one atty prolongs it's life, all my EM atomisers last at least 3-6months over several devices, so it's interesting to read that that it's not just in my
imagination!

 

[EMRocks]

I'm holding off from placing another large order for the group I shop for, whilst the LR510
'glitch' is being resolved, had to send a few of the old problematic ones back, Selina has been
superb in resolving this issue I have to say.

Am not to worried about trying the re-designed ones, but I will be very interested to hear
what the feedback is on them from everyone that gets the chance to test.

I've felt for some time now, that not caning just the one atty prolongs it's life, all my EM atomisers last at least 3-6months over several devices, so it's interesting to read that that it's not just in my
imagination!

EM atomizers have always been famous for their longevity, the only hiccup in the last 2 years has been the one bad batch of LR510's, but we're getting that fixed as we speak, and this time they will be better than they ever were!

I'll pass the message on to Selina that you said she's doing a great job

 

[perpetua]

Brilliant news EMR! We're all looking forward to our next group order, a number of folk hadn't tried your LR901's so I've sent several of of the group one to try . . . they love them, as I do.

Please do pass on thanks regards to Selina, she's so helpful, fabulous customer service from her.

( A bit crytic, but I'm the customer who sent her a photo of seagulls in the snow! )

 

[mwa102464]

EMRocks,

I must have misunderstood you when you said you where looking into and testing the PCB on the Riva and thought you where looking into trying to find a way to make it work better, smarter or something of such, ( what where you speaking about then when you said you where looking into the PCB) ??

The issue at hand the way I see it is this, The Mosfet type Batt no matter how you look at it is being overstressed while using an LR Atty in combination with it and is not the safest and best of battery & Atty combination. As long as LR Atty's are going to be continued to be used these Mosfet style Riva Batts will continue to be overstressed ( not safe ).!, ( if I'm wrong please correct me with the facts but I think these are the facts and I in no way am trying or being rude here when I say this so please don't take it this way )

IMR Battery chemistry is already proven by far to be the safest for LR use as it is the best chemistry make up currently for this type of set up. As far as spending money on all this testing doesn't really stand up or cut the cheese with me simply because it has been and is already tested.!

As far as reworking the Entire Riva unit, not really that big of a change and I see it as a MONEY ONLY FACTOR of why they won't do it and that's not a good sign in my eyes. The housing actually needs to be opened up maybe a 1/16" to fit an AW 14500 series batt which is only the matter of a slight computer change in the engineering, or the battery manufacturer could size an IMR power cell to fit the current opening but I see the first way as a cheaper and more viable solution. I think the entire process of changing this to accommodate an IMR Batt would not be a very expensive of a process at all no matter how you look at it yet they continue to build them like this along with the close competitor and I really would like to know why, is it just price or do they no something I and the rest of us don't when it compares to Mosfet vs IMR all the testing, research and facts that I can find show the IMR to be a much better chemistry make up for LR use. Also the battery manufacturer is working for the retailer selling these E-Cigs and should want to build the safest, highest of quality, at the best price, and do best for them they can, and the engineering team should be more then willing to listen to the idea and put together an intelligent answer of why or why not as to the IMR Batt in the Rive far LR use ( I will find this answer).

Safety Features = I would also suggest that a warning for (charge now) with a consecutive say 5 blink on the current led light, just like the one on there now would be a nice feature as well as an automatic shut down so one couldn't over discharge the IMR batt below 2.5v would be another good safety feature and this may take some extra time and money to make happen but it isn't that hard to do in the PCB, heck it is already there basically with the current set up.

I happen to have a contact at a battery manufacturing plant in China and I have him looking into this as of right now and I'm awaiting some answers from the engineer as to whether this is a viable change and one worth doing, I will reply back as soon as I get them, believe me I'm on your side here EMRocks I want the Riva to be as good as it possibly can be for everyone using an LR Atty and not to have to keep over stressing it the way it is currently built and for them to last as long as possible. For as many of these that are being sold I wouldn't doubt for a second that improving the power cell would be very well taken in the vaping community and also help sales and even more putting the Riva leaps and bounds above the competition for users of an LR Atty.!

 

[EMRocks]

It's not unsafe or over-stressing anything if the atomizers are within the range that the batteries are designed for. We don't even know for sure yet if this is even the problem, so before I go suggesting that everyone completely redesign the entire device (which I don't have enough pull to do anyway), I think we should probably determine if this is even the problem or not. That's why I said I wanted to look into the PCB - because I want to find out if the PCB is being activated and whether or not that's even what's happening.

If you'd like to send your case to Selina and/or David, feel free. Don't expect anything to come of it though. But you or anyone else suggesting it to them isn't going to have any less impact that if I did.

 

[mwa102464]

I've had David on my Skype for a long time now and chat with him once in a while EMR, I will fill him in and ask him his thoughts on the matter, like I said I'm on your side here, think nothing but,,, as Di has stated in her post the ohm of the new Atty was 1.5-1.6 if this is the case and under say 2ohm the Mosfet Batt is being over stressed how I see it, as long as the combo is drawing more like 2 Amps instead of 1Amp like a reg 510 then we are over stressing the Batt, just my 2c on topic and only going on what I saw posted as for the specs

 

[mwa102464]

He is not available right now on Skype EMR but I have posed the question to him and will see what he says

 

[mwa102464]

I personally believe the PCB's are being activated and if they where not then we would have had a greater mishap by now, again just my 2c

 

[EMRocks]

I believe they are being activated as well. But I don't know for sure that the LR atties are causing it. And I also don't know for sure if it was just the bad batch of LR atties that caused it. We also sell LR901 atties and 901 Rivas, of which I have heard of no problems (but I don't know what the sales volume is on them either). I've also never heard of anyone having problems who is using regular 510 atties. Several people have reported success in using Rivas with the old batch of 510LR's without issue.

So the bottom line is: this looks like a possible problem related to the BAD 510LR atomizers. That's not an official statement or conclusion, just the answer that makes the most sense to me when I look at all the evidence so far. At this point, I'm thinking about waiting it out and seeing what happens to the Riva PCB's when the new 510LR atties arrive. David has had none of his own Rivas die this week at all while testing the new 510LR's.

 

[classwife]

I am looking forward to these new atties !! My first and only order had "those" LR atties. Have been just reading and watching....LOL...my cheeks ARE getting good exercise tho cause of the hard draw with the little hole ! Have always heard such good things about EM LR atties...willing to try again !

 

[gramakittycat]

Patiently waiting to try out the new attys and give some feedback on my results with them!