Not an issue for people who do NOT have nickel allergy, although a large proportion of the population does, according to Mayo clinic.
Was just mentioning it in case somebody had such a known allergy/sensitivity.
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Not an issue for people who do NOT have nickel allergy, although a large proportion of the population does, according to Mayo clinic.
Was just mentioning it in case somebody had such a known allergy/sensitivity.
thanks for your input but this was discussed in detail before ordering. anybody with nickel allergies was advised not to participate in this experiment 
Interesting.. I switched over to a tank of different juice last night (AV Gorilla juice) & did a side-by-side comparison of the foam to a ceramic wick with similar resistance on the same equipment. For some reason, with the new juice, I agree with others that the flavors with the foam are muted to a degree. Its interesting that with the previous juice (heavy citrus flavors), it tasted fine, but with this juice, all the subtleties seem to be missing...tastes pretty bland in comparison to the same juice with the ceramic wick.
I also noticed that it really wasn't wicking as well as I thought it was...It delivers juice VERY quickly if you tilt it (which I just do out of habit), but I don't think its actually wicking as well as the ceramic. If I tilt it horizontally, the wick gets wet very fast, the vapor increases tremendously, and it has a little more flavor....but still not as good as with the ceramic. I also noticed that when the wick dries out, you really don't get a dry-hit - its more of a "soft hit"...not as noticeable as with other materials...it kind of just peters out. I almost wonder if the cleaning process affected it in some way, but its the same way I always clean my coils (rinsed in warm water & dry-burned till the coils glow bright red a few times until the gunk burns off). Just kind of odd.
So, I'm left with some mixed feelings at this point. I still think it works better than the Stainless Steel wicks, but I've been using ceramic wicks (or Ekowool in my Oddys/Ithakas) for the last few months so I'm only going from memory. I guess a true test would be to roll up a Stainless wick & do a three-way comparo (I have three RSSTs)... its all subjective anyway, but it might be an interesting test.
For me personally, the foam hasn't displaced the ceramics - especially the White Wicks, but if you like Stainless or silica/hemp/cotton wicks, it's worth a try. I'll keep playing with it though...maybe a hybrid with another material might make it better - I have some more Ekowool in different diameters coming from Stormy's, so I might play with that later...
I still find it a fascinating material to play with....the answer may just be coming up with a different way to make wicks from it.
I also noticed that it really wasn't wicking as well as I thought it was...It delivers juice VERY quickly if you tilt it (which I just do out of habit), but I don't think its actually wicking as well as the ceramic. If I tilt it horizontally, the wick gets wet very fast, the vapor increases tremendously, and it has a little more flavor....but still not as good as with the ceramic. I also noticed that when the wick dries out, you really don't get a dry-hit - its more of a "soft hit"...not as noticeable as with other materials...it kind of just peters out. I almost wonder if the cleaning process affected it in some way, but its the same way I always clean my coils (rinsed in warm water & dry-burned till the coils glow bright red a few times until the gunk burns off). Just kind of odd.
So, I'm left with some mixed feelings at this point. I still think it works better than the Stainless Steel wicks, but I've been using ceramic wicks (or Ekowool in my Oddys/Ithakas) for the last few months so I'm only going from memory. I guess a true test would be to roll up a Stainless wick & do a three-way comparo (I have three RSSTs)... its all subjective anyway, but it might be an interesting test.
For me personally, the foam hasn't displaced the ceramics - especially the White Wicks, but if you like Stainless or silica/hemp/cotton wicks, it's worth a try. I'll keep playing with it though...maybe a hybrid with another material might make it better - I have some more Ekowool in different diameters coming from Stormy's, so I might play with that later...
I still find it a fascinating material to play with....the answer may just be coming up with a different way to make wicks from it.
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I found that same thing as Namvet, The flavor is muted (VG Peppermint blend, no menthol highlights come through).
On the third try with a Cobra, Petar K. 28g .8ohm (measured this time), I used 9mm to roll a wick which was 2.3mm in thickness. I didnt torch, only a good wash and rinse. No crumbles this time. I also used less compression when rolling. This setup when tilted can be vaped with pulses less than 5 seconds on a 90 degree tilt. Not really floating my boat, yet.
On a similar set-up with ceramic, I can vape with out the extreme tilt. Especially after the ceramic heats-up and the juice warms. With the foam there is very little heatsink going on, so this is probably contributing to slower wicking with thicker viscosity VG content juices.
On the third try with a Cobra, Petar K. 28g .8ohm (measured this time), I used 9mm to roll a wick which was 2.3mm in thickness. I didnt torch, only a good wash and rinse. No crumbles this time. I also used less compression when rolling. This setup when tilted can be vaped with pulses less than 5 seconds on a 90 degree tilt. Not really floating my boat, yet.
On a similar set-up with ceramic, I can vape with out the extreme tilt. Especially after the ceramic heats-up and the juice warms. With the foam there is very little heatsink going on, so this is probably contributing to slower wicking with thicker viscosity VG content juices.
thanks for your input but this was discussed in detail before ordering. anybody with nickel allergies was advised not to participate in this experiment
PLEASE STOP VAPING ON NICKEL FOAM! Can't you find a safer metal foam, aluminium might be safer although I do not know.
You guys are nuts, The Ni-Cr wire is one thing, but nickel foam is another, when resistance wire heats over time its surface sinters and goes bumpy, it sort of provides a protective shell on the wire, some particles may come loose but this will be very small compared to vaping on a nickel foam that is full of vapourising fluid that cracks and pops. do you realise the surface area of a foam like that? its enourmous. You will be inhailing significantly more nickel particulate than from wire.
Its not just about nickel sensitivity, nickel is found in small amounts in nature and in the body but it is carcinogenic in larger quantities especially by inhilation.
2. Target organs
The skin and the respiratory tract are the principal target organs upon occupational exposure.
Skin: nickel and nickel compounds have a strong sensitising potential on the skin, which is manifested by irritation, eczema and allergic contact dermatitis. Oral
intake of low doses of nickel may provoke allergic dermatitis in sensitised individuals.
Respiratory tract: Beside the carcinogenic effects on lung and nasal cavities associated with an exposure to nickel, other respiratory effects have been described:
-epithelial dysplasia (possibly representing precancerous lesions)
-pathological changes of the nasopharynx (nasal septal erosions, perforations, ulcerations)
-hyperplastic/polypoid rhinitis
-hypo-osmia and anosmia
-chronic sinusitis/bronchitis
-decreased pulmonary residual capacity, increased respiratory frequency
-pneumoconiosis
-fibrotic changes
-allergic asthma.
A single case of death from acute respiratory distress syndrome has been reported in a adult following exposure of small size nickel metal particles (<1.4 µm)
Renal effects: biochemical indications of nephrotoxicity in nickel workers have been observed: a significant association was found between nickelemia and increased urinary markers reflecting tubular dysfunction (i.e. b2 - microglobulin).
Nickel carbonyl is the most acutely toxic nickel compound. Symptoms following nickel carbonyl intoxication occur in two stages, separated by an almost symptom-free interval which usually lasts for several hours. Initially, the major symptoms are nausea, headache, vertigo, upper airway irritation and substernal pain, followed by interstitial pneumonitis with dyspnoea and cyanosis. Prostration, pulmonary oedema, kidney toxicity, adrenal insufficiency and death may occur in severe cases.
Frequent clinical findings include fever with leukocytosis, electrocardiographic abnormalities suggestive of myocarditis and chest X-ray changes.
Hyperglycaemia has also been reported.
3. Teratogenicity:
Only few data are available on the reproduction and developmental effects of nickel in human beings.
-inhalation exposure: an increase in spontaneous abortions and in structural malformations was reported among women who worked in a nickel hydrometallurgy refining plant in the arctic region of Russia. However, the investigators noted that the nickel-exposed women manually lifted heavy nickel anodes and they may have experienced heat stress.
-oral exposure-dermal exposure: no studies were located regarding reproductive or developmental effects in humans.
-transplacental transfer: nickel has been shown to cross the human placenta. Measurable concentrations have been found in various fetal tissues (e.g. liver, kidney, brain, heart, lung, skeletal muscle, and bone) and in the umbilical cord serum, where the average concentration from 12 newborn babies was 3±1.2 µg/L and was identical with that in the mother's serum, immediately after delivery.
Placental transfer is influenced by gestational age and the availability of nickel in the maternal blood.
The passage of nickel across the human placenta barrier is of relevance because of the presence of female workers in industry. Appreciable amounts of nickel have been found in breast milk.
4. Genotoxicity:
The DNA alterations responsible for the carcinogenic process are generally thought to occur in genes. In view of the positive response obtained in the SCE test, additional experiments should be performed to test the ability of nickel compounds , such as nickel carbonyl, displaying marked carcinogenic and teratogenic properties, to induce gene mutations in mammalian cells
See also Mutagenic Effects
5. Carcinogenicity:
Some nickel species are carcinogenic.
Epidemiological studies have demonstrated a strong association between lung and nasal cancers and exposure by inhalation to nickel compounds in nickel refineries, primarily (in) the early stage of nickel refining. The excess risk of cancer seems to be mainly associated with exposure to less-soluble compounds (i.e. nickel subsulfide, nickel oxide). However, observations conducted in the electrolysis and in the preparation of soluble salts departments suggest that there might also be an association between soluble nickel and respiratory tract cancers.
Excesses of various cancers other than the lung and nasal cavities, such as renal, gastric, or prostatic cancer, have occasionally been reported in nickel workers, but none has been found consistently.
See also Carcinogenic Effects
Source: nickel, toxicology
And from the Material Safety data Sheet for powdered nickel (which is basically what you'll be inhailing...)
Source: MSDS - 266973
Signal word Danger
Hazard statement(s) May cause an allergic skin reaction.
H317 Suspected of causing cancer.
H351 Causes damage to organs through prolonged or repeated exposure.
H372 Harmful to aquatic life with long lasting effects.
Avoid release to the environment.
Wear protective gloves.
Limited evidence of a carcinogenic effect.
May cause sensitization by skin contact.
Toxic: danger of serious damage to health by prolonged exposure
through inhalation.
Don't wanna be Debbie Downer, but before everybody gets too excited....as Dan pointed out in the interest thread (long since deleted)....vaping directly off Nickel anything (could) be toxic.
Might be wise to actually use the Nickel wick in the same manner as a standard atomizer....by using a thin silica sleeve over the coil's surface.
So you'd be vaping directly off the silica sleeve rather than the Nickel.
(And here's comes the Nichrome debate!
Forwarding
If you are interested in a definitive work on chromium and nickel See this link:
IARC Monographs- Monographs available in PDF format
Most of the studies referenced were based upon industrial exposure to high levels of Nickel and Nickel alloys. Here is the conclusion for Nickel:
Pg 411
4.5 Evaluation
There is suffcient evidence in humans for the carcinogenicity of nickel sulfate, and of the combinations of nickel sulfides and oxides encountered in the nickel refining industry.
There is inadequate evidence in humans for the carcinogenicity of metallc nickel and nickel alloys.
There is suffcìent evidence in experimental animaIs for the carcinogenicity of metallc nickel, nickel monoxides, nickel hydroxides and crystallne nickel sulfides.
There is limited evidence in experimental animaIs for the carcinogenicity of nickel alloys, nickelocene, nickel carbonyl, nickel salts, nickel arsenides, nickel antimonide, nickel selenides and nickel telluride.
There is inadequate evidence in experimental animaIs for the carcinogenicity of nickel trioxide, amorphous nickel sulfide and nickel titanate.
The Working Group made the overall evaluation on nickel compounds as a group on the basis of the combined results of epidemiological studies, carcinogenicity studies in experimental animaIs, and several types of other relevant data, supported by the underlying concept that nickel compounds can generate nickel ions at critical sites in their target cells.
Overall evaluation
Nickel compounds are carcinogenic to humans (Group 1).
Metallc nickel is possibly carcinogenic to humans (Group 2B).
BTW: Just to put this in perspective. You can look up an MSDS for Sand (the stuff you find at the beach) and it will state that it is carcinogenic. http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924861
IARC Monographs- Monographs available in PDF format
Most of the studies referenced were based upon industrial exposure to high levels of Nickel and Nickel alloys. Here is the conclusion for Nickel:
Pg 411
4.5 Evaluation
There is suffcient evidence in humans for the carcinogenicity of nickel sulfate, and of the combinations of nickel sulfides and oxides encountered in the nickel refining industry.
There is inadequate evidence in humans for the carcinogenicity of metallc nickel and nickel alloys.
There is suffcìent evidence in experimental animaIs for the carcinogenicity of metallc nickel, nickel monoxides, nickel hydroxides and crystallne nickel sulfides.
There is limited evidence in experimental animaIs for the carcinogenicity of nickel alloys, nickelocene, nickel carbonyl, nickel salts, nickel arsenides, nickel antimonide, nickel selenides and nickel telluride.
There is inadequate evidence in experimental animaIs for the carcinogenicity of nickel trioxide, amorphous nickel sulfide and nickel titanate.
The Working Group made the overall evaluation on nickel compounds as a group on the basis of the combined results of epidemiological studies, carcinogenicity studies in experimental animaIs, and several types of other relevant data, supported by the underlying concept that nickel compounds can generate nickel ions at critical sites in their target cells.
Overall evaluation
Nickel compounds are carcinogenic to humans (Group 1).
Metallc nickel is possibly carcinogenic to humans (Group 2B).
BTW: Just to put this in perspective. You can look up an MSDS for Sand (the stuff you find at the beach) and it will state that it is carcinogenic. http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924861
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sigh... we know the risk... go away trolls this is an experiment to move onto other non nickel material, it's our bodies and our choice
Um...if you're referring to the post by members that are showing the risks, I helped organize this Co-Op and was a purchasing member.
Be VERY careful who you insult.....please.
not you shek, and wasnt meaning it as an insult, it's just people coming in screaming don't use this.
you and the rest of us that ordered this to test, know the risks, and we accepted those risks when we bought it to test knowing that it was an experiment to move on to a different material, this was jsut a cheap alternative to test with in case it wasn't worth the expense on the more expensive material i.e titanium.
I should say as well my BS-O-Meter is broken atm, because i am sick. so i tend to be even more up front and forward than ususal
edit: sorry if i offended shek it wasnt my intention at all
you and the rest of us that ordered this to test, know the risks, and we accepted those risks when we bought it to test knowing that it was an experiment to move on to a different material, this was jsut a cheap alternative to test with in case it wasn't worth the expense on the more expensive material i.e titanium.
I should say as well my BS-O-Meter is broken atm, because i am sick. so i tend to be even more up front and forward than ususal
edit: sorry if i offended shek it wasnt my intention at all
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Ok first off, sand is sillica and it is known to damage lung tissue, hence the "Grinders lung" disease.
The fact that Metallic Nickel is classed a possibly carcinogenic should be enough for you to not want to vape on it, Aluminium is not carcinogenic, all I'm saying is can't you find aluminium foam or a similar safer material?
I'm not trying to scare anyone, but its not a nice metal. It is genotoxic, so it will mess up DNA, other metals are not.
I read somewhere (although I can't find it now) that they were going to reclassify Metallic Nickel as a known carcinogen, Nickel is used extensively in industry, metallic product finishes and in money I think that much industrial money and the amount of potential lawsuits might be the reason it is taking so long, or maybe im just being a conspiracy theorist.
Anyway Do what you want, but if your kids turn out with 3 legs then blame global warming or something else.
Apology accepted...
But Charlie369 is NOT a troll....he cares very much for members by even posting the argument.
If he didn't care, he wouldn't bother and let everyone in here harm themselves.
This is NOT the opening statement of an
wipe...."PLEASE STOP VAPING ON NICKEL FOAM!".
It's a post that you should read and pay close attention to since it's from a caring member.
I thought this thread was intended for nickel foam testing and results. It seems to have gotten derailed. Could we please get back on topic?
I don't know charlie369 so from someone that doesn't know him or the research he has done. coming in like that to any thread that he hasn't been following since the co-op discussion day one. yes it does come across that way, charlie i also am sorry if i offended you but from a person just coming to check to see if anyone else had popped up with anything new it comes across as trolling and fear mongering.
yes please back on topic.
yes please back on topic.
See, he cares...really.
I do care, but I believe in Liberty and personal responsibility, I'm not a conservative type safetyfag, but I am a science nerd and what I'd read about Nickel I had to share. I did read the whole thread (shouting at the screen lol) but havn't been following others about the co-op, I didn't see any other safety related posts, Its one thing to have personal liberty to do what you want, but its another to not have all the information or go with the flow of the crowd.
Anyway hope the sponge works out for you, I however will continue rocking the 316 grade SS rope thats vaping perfectly
Peace
I had a long list of a retort to explain why i take the stance i do, but this isn't the place for it. Instead i'll try to get back on topic.
I haven't really had a chance to work on anything since yesterday, my 4 month old had a checkup today 21 lbs 27 inches long, 95+ percentile in all fields and after that i went to a doc in the box to try and get rid of this evil evil head cold.
edit: Charlie369 we vape the same thing this is just testing which so far has failed miserably
I haven't really had a chance to work on anything since yesterday, my 4 month old had a checkup today 21 lbs 27 inches long, 95+ percentile in all fields
and after that i went to a doc in the box to try and get rid of this evil evil head cold.edit: Charlie369 we vape the same thing
this is just testing which so far has failed miserably
Ok getting kinda caught up....anyone that has had time to test the nickle foam have any thoughts for how it may work with white ceramic as a hybrid wick?
It would be awesome to reduce the lag and built up heat of the ceramic, but keep the great taste.
My thoughts were full length nickle wick with ceramic tube for the coil????
It would be awesome to reduce the lag and built up heat of the ceramic, but keep the great taste.
My thoughts were full length nickle wick with ceramic tube for the coil????
I kinda wonder if just washing in rubbing alcohol and then boiling the foam and shaping your wick and boiling it again would be enough to clean it. And then wrap a small piece of SS mesh around just the top where your coils would be. I have been using this method for the SS Wire wicks in my RSST for over a month now with excellent results. I use a really small 0.7mm x 2.0mm peice of 325 mesh for this purpose. Anything over 1/2 tank will flood when I tip it. I managed to find some SS wire in 2.5mm so it fits the hole nearly perfect. The foam looks promising, especially the fact it dissipates the heat so quickly. I would be interested in trying this as well.
I take off tomorrow for VapeCan so this will have to wait until I get back. But I have subscribed and will be following this. Happy experimenting!!!!
I take off tomorrow for VapeCan so this will have to wait until I get back. But I have subscribed and will be following this. Happy experimenting!!!!
Reporting back at end of day 2. After about 9 mls, nothing much different from day 1. No gunk build up on coil, juice in tank staying clear, throat hit and vapor remains great. The flavor remains somewhat muted, but ok with me. The only issue is the previously noted wicking issues.
Due to the fear of using NI-foam, is Ti-foam ok to use? If it wicks as good as the nickel, I'm in on the next co-op.
Due to the fear of using NI-foam, is Ti-foam ok to use? If it wicks as good as the nickel, I'm in on the next co-op.
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