Nicotine Comparisons

[Rossum]

Smell testing: Both my daughter and my wife (neither of whom vapes) did smell testing on the original 100 mg bases today. We were all surprised at how little odor they had, of course some had more than others, but the lack of any intense odors was surprising.

I also had them compare all four base samples with some 15 mg 30/70 unflavored from last year. One was from NN (that they pre-mixed for me) and the other was from VT (that I mixed myself using PG and VG sourced from VT at the same time as the nic. Both samples of "aged" 15 mg pre-mix had a substantially stronger smell than any of these. Both pre-mixed had been stored in the dark, but at room temperature. Both had a quite noticeable smell since day 1, which was at least part of my motivation to see if there might be something even cleaner. So I'm both pleased and distraught that all four of the current samples smell much less. Pleased because that means we have some clean nicotine here. Distraught because I take this to mean that we can't really count on a supplier having similar same stuff year after year.

I don't wish to post more detailed smell-testing results at this time in order not to skew anyone's opinions.

 

[Rossum]

vaping: I cleaned out a DNA30 feeder today. It's a rig I'm intimately familiar with because it's what I normally have sitting on my night stand and what I vape for a while first thing in the morning. Anyway, it got brand new bottle installed. The tube and 510 got flushed with water, and the atty (a Cyclone) got rinsed well with water. The atty has a 1.0 ohm coil in it, IIRC, it's 3 strands of 32 gauge twisted together (but it might be 30). I then filled the new bottle with the 0mg PG/VG mix and have been vaping it a bit, to break in the wick and coil, and to get used to the taste of that mix. That way the only variable will be the nic bases themselves. My plan is to drip them in a few drops at a time from the top. That way I can go back and forth as much as I want, without having to dedicate four or more setups to this. This is also why I mixed to 25 mg instead of my usual 15; I'll be sqounking in 0 mg from the bottle to clear the wick in between different nics.

I'll say this: The 0mg PG/VG mix is pretty dang bland to vape! There's a slight hint of sweet, but not much. It has little throat hit or nose tingle on exhale.

I'm running this at 15 watts right now, but that will probably increase a bit as the wick breaks in. I usually end up at around 17-17.5 watts with this coil.

 

[Dixie1954]

Yeah I am the weirdo who dislikes any kind of real pepper and any color so I am sensitive to pepper yes. I am no nicotine expert but I believe that since it is taken from tobacco plants the differences in even the same brands would have to do with the crop that year - does this make any sense to you all?? I too have been disheartened by the changes from batch to batch - but to me that explains it.

 

[Rossum]

I am no nicotine expert but I believe that since it is taken from tobacco plants the differences in even the same brands would have to do with the crop that year - does this make any sense to you all??

My sense is that differences between tobacco crops don't account for this. The vendors whose "brands" we're buying do not extract nicotine from tobacco. They buy it from an overseas supplier, who might be the company that does the extraction, or they might be a company that further refines and purifies nic, or even just a distributor. Anyway, I think that the differences from year to year are more likely accounted for by variances in the processes used by the extractors and refiners, and possibly oxidation in storage and shipment, than by the tobacco used as the input.

 

[JeremyR]

Its the evolution of the processing technology, it gets better all the time... Everything lately has been pretty clean.

 

[KattMamma]

My sense is that differences between tobacco crops don't account for this. The vendors whose "brands" we're buying do not extract nicotine from tobacco. They buy it from an overseas supplier, who might be the company that does the extraction, or they might be a company that further refines and purifies nic, or even just a distributor. Anyway, I think that the differences from year to year are more likely accounted for by variances in the processes used by the extractors and refiners, and possibly oxidation in storage and shipment, than by the tobacco used as the input.

That's kind of what I've been thinking. My supplier buys a big batch of nic - if I buy some shortly after they received their shipment, it's fresh and has little color, odor, or flavor. I buy again 6 months later, and it's from the same batch, which has been sitting in a warm warehouse or whatever - and now it has more color, odor, and flavor. Frustrating.

 

[Wow1420]

I've read that using tobacco leaf vs. stems makes a difference in taste.
A Lesson and a Discount on Fresh, Clear Nicotine | E-Cigarette Forum I think there was a later post somewhere saying alchem went to using stems more recently, but I'm not having any luck finding that post.

 

[JeremyR]

Lol, that was a year ago.. And some bad nic at that time, chemical rubbery.. It was alchem, something they did screwed up the product, contaminated it.... but they have much improved their process since that time from what I can tell.

 

[sketchness]

Loaded up my third sample this evening.

 

[Dixie1954]

I do have a question though - are we going to be able to write out more descriptions besides 1-10?? Because to me that does not even begin to tell the story.

 

[Rossum]

Yes, please do write descriptive text.

 

[JeremyR]

My samples are all mixed!
30 ml each and I upped my nic from 9 to 10mg for extra kick.

So all in total I have 9 nics here I'm testing.

A,B,C,D, RTS, MFS, WL, ECX, and USA-LN.

I can say the USA-LN is looking like one of the clearest of the bunch. At least as clear or clearer than C. It has a different type of scent to it... From its different extraction process I'm guessing. Will try it today...
(This is the nic that trunic makes those claims with)

 

[mhertz]

...About batch differences, then I previously posted a reply from alchem about this:

Hi Martin,

Thanks for your inquiry.

The short answer to all of your questions is that nicotine is a natural product extracted from tobacco, which is subject to oxidation.

This results in variations due to the source of the tobacco, the part of the leaf being used, where it is grown, when it is grown, etc… The tobacco pulls various components out of the soil resulting in the different tastes and odors. Also, aging of the leaf plays a role in remaining notes.

After extraction, then preservation becomes important because nicotine is highly oxidative. It has to be protected from light, heat and oxygen. Exposure results in discoloration from yellow to orange to brown (think of a cut apple sitting on your kitchen table over time). Thus packaging and storage play key roles.

So, as the demand for nicotine has greatly increased, the sources of raw materials has had to change and expand. Each expansion has brought about new challenges to overcome as far as taste and odor.

Also, with expansion comes new packaging. Some packaging is better than others for sensitive products.

So while there have been growing pains over the past few years, Alchem is at the leading edge with extraction and purification technology and has overcome the many difficulties in producing the highest quality nicotine in the market. We remain committed to meeting the growing demands of the industry and being the market leader.

All the best,

Tom


Thomas H. Schrier
Vice President – Business Development & Sales

Alchem USA, Inc.
5819 Highway 6 South
Suite 140
Missouri City, TX 77459
tschrier@alcheminternational.com
www.alcheminternational.com
www.nicselect.com
Office (281)208-7518
Fax (281)208-7520
Cell (856)803-8041

 

[Cool_Breeze]

In absense of any other scoring cirteria for testing the 4 nicotine bases, I offer the following...

Note: For clarity of Color, we'll rely on Rossum's samplings

Each is to be on a scale of 0 to 10, or as noted.

1. State Stength of Nicotine in final mix in terms of mg/ml.

2. Genaric Description of Type of testing atomizer(s) ___________.

3. Strength of Odor, Nosed (100mg/ml) (low to high)
0 = No odor 10 = Strong Odor
A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?

4. Strength of Tobacco-Like Flavor (low to high)
0 = No Tobacco-Like Flavor 10 = Strong Tobacco-Like Flavor
A = ?, etc.

5. Strength of Pepperiness (low to high)
0 = No Pepperness 10 = High Pepperness

6. Statement: Pepperiness is / isn't (select one) a quality I seek in a nicotine base.
Is / Isn't

7. Strength of Throat Hit (low to high)
0 = Minimal TH 10 = Max TH

8. Strength of Chemical-like or other "unnatural" flavor (low to high)
0 = Minimal 10 = Max

9. Statement: Chemical-like or other "unndatural" flavor is / isn't (select one) a quality I seek in a nicotine base.
Is / Isn't

10. Best overall evaluation of Taste and Throat Hit (low to high)
0 = Minimal 10 = Max


A response should look something like below.
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. _____mg/ml
2. _____ atomizer(s)
3. A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?
4. A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?
5. A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?
6. Is or Isn't..?
7. A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?
8. A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?
9. Is or Isn't..?
10. A = ? B = ? C = ? D = ?
----------------------------------------------------------------

The above scorings are for the purpose of creating a chart of results. Please MESSAGE ME with your results...please don't post your results in the thread. Certainly there are many comments that can be added, but please post those separate from those for this purpose. When the 4 Nicotine bases are identified, open discussion of testing can commence.

 

[Rossum]

Please MESSAGE ME with your results...please don't post your results in the thread.

So I take it you're volunteering to compile the results?

 

[Dixie1954]

Soooooooooooo let me get this straight - there are now 11 possibilities instead of 10 - right?? And here I was worried about only 10!

 

[clnire]

copied Cool's post to a document I will print tomorrow and work from. I can fill most of it from my chart I have going.

 

[Rossum]

Soooooooooooo let me get this straight - there are now 11 possibilities instead of 10 - right?? And here I was worried about only 10!

I think a more flexible scale (like the one Cool_Breeze proposed) is better than one that just ranks them relative to each other is better. Some people will be comparing these to other nics they have. Some people have certain perceptions. For example: If it's someone's perception that these are all have relatively little odor, then they will want to assign numbers low on the "Strength of Odor, Nosed" scale.

 

[JohnnyDill]

Time for me to chime in. I received the nic in great shape and put them in freezer right away. Waiting on new cobalt glass bottles to mix down in. I will also be throwing in my MFS for comparison {my current favorite; bold is good to me!}

I will mix down to 70VG/20PG/10H20 @ 8mg/ml nicotine as I have been doing since I switched to rayon.

I will be doing my testing with a brand new rayon build w/ dual coil kanthal @ .5 to .6 ohm on a mech with a Derringer dripper. Been extremely busy with helping my mum move. She just turned 90 and needs help so I may be a bit late with my results. I hope y'all understand, but I gotta do what I gotta do. Thanks again, Rossum for doing this. I am grateful.

 

[JeremyR]

I'll do something like this.. I can still add many more slots. Anyone that wants to can download "simple graph maker" for Android from the app store.

This is totally made up, I haven't even tried them yet.. Tomorrow I start.

Adding more slots now...