Nicotine Comparisons

[Rocketman]

Good to know! Maybe we need to add #8 to the round up

Why? It would just be a repeat of other brands
You would be evaluating PG, VG, and mixing.
Not evaluating NIC.
(notice the JG in the lot number in the BE COA)

 

[Cyrus Vap]

LOL that's funny

have you had some success in identifying the dupes in this thread?

EDIT: wait, now I'm confused. JG? I don't see a match in the other two COAs I'm aware of?

 

[Rocketman]

Did you test any nicotine that did not come from one of these three extraction sources?
J&G Biotechnology
Shannnxi Hognkang Biological Technology
RTS Vapes - a Division of RTS Leasing, LLC, USA

 

[wolcen]

Interesting on the Box Elder stuff. I'd counted them out previously, but I've also not seen any vendor with as much supporting documentation at this point.

Not only the CofA's, but GC/MS results of the PG and VG mixes as well as Titration results (for Gourmet Vapor)?

Anyone know if all these documents were available prior to their incident(s)?

I'll still wait for the bromothymol blue and sulfuric acid to show up first either way.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

How would I know? Seriously? Please enlighten us!

One vendor was kind enough to share a pair of identical nicotines with me, the rest weren't as forthcoming.

Did you test any nicotine that did not could from one of these three extraction sources?
J&G Biotechnology
Shannnxi Hognkang Biological Technology
RTS Vapes - a Division of RTS Leasing, LLC, USA

EDIT: But going on taste, I would say 3-4 sources is about right...

 

[Rocketman]

Cyrus,
Just what did you compare?

 

[Cyrus Vap]

In my mind?

RTS is an outlier

WLR = MFS

WLI = XTR = ECX

VZ another outlier

but you seem to have some factual information that we don't, please share my friend

 

[Rocketman]

I don't know where all the vendors get their Nicotine.
Or, how often thay change sources.
Or, how one batch is better or worse than another.
Or, how truthful they would be if asked.

Wholesale re-distribution is the game now in the U.S.
Heck, you can sell thousands of dollars in diluted Nic in just one weekend.

Where do the couple thousand flavored e-juice vendors get their nicotine?

Is DeKang still manufacturing nicotine? or do they even get it from someplace else?

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I understand what you have been getting at Rocketman, and you brought up these great points a long while ago in this thread, and I thank you for that.

But with respect you seem to imply in one post that there are three vendors supplying everyone on this particular table (not necessarily consistently)...

and then in the next state that you don't know...

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I don't know man, but I find it impressive as well

If COA is step one, I'd have to say Box Elder is at the lead on this race

Interesting on the Box Elder stuff. I'd counted them out previously, but I've also not seen any vendor with as much supporting documentation at this point.

Not only the CofA's, but GC/MS results of the PG and VG mixes as well as Titration results (for Gourmet Vapor)?

Anyone know if all these documents were available prior to their incident(s)?

I'll still wait for the bromothymol blue and sulfuric acid to show up first either way.

 

[casey8579]

Then who edited it?

If this was in response to my post, I expect RTS did the editing. What I'd like to know is who did the creating.

 

[Rocketman]

Not trying to 'diss' you Cyrus,
and I don't know much more than I'm implying.

The batch testing done by BE brings up a point though.

If we are too lazy to DIY with just a few strengths and PG/VG ratios, vendors will find it too expensive to test each and every batch. Mixed to order increases the number of tests. I 'think' BE tests an incoming batch of raw nicotine, prepares a massive 100mg/ml batch in PG and another in VG. Dilutions from that point probably don't get much testing.

If we want strength in 24, 36, 48, 60, and 100mg/ml, in PG/VG ratios of 100% PG, 90/10, 80/20, 70/30 - - - - - 20/80, 10/90, 100%VG, do we also want the vendors to test each of these?
Just how large are each of these batches? and , how much does testing cost?
If a single test series costs $2000 that would add $5 to each 500ml of 100mg/ml bottle if the mix started out with 20 liters of pure nicotine. If a vendor diluted 5 liters of pure nicotine to make 50 liters of 100mg/ml then that $2000 would add $20 to the cost of a 500ml bottle.

Would I pay $5 more for a 500ml bottle of 100mg/ml if the actual batch mine came from was tested? YUP.

 

[Rocketman]

If this was in response to my post, I expect RTS did the editing. What I'd like to know is who did the creating.

You mean like the serial number of the software that created it?

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Not trying to 'diss' you Cyrus,
and I don't know much more than I'm implying.

The batch testing done by BE brings up a point though.

If we are too lazy to DIY with just a few strengths and PG/VG ratios, vendors will find it too expensive to test each and every batch. Mixed to order increases the number of tests. I 'think' BE tests an incoming batch of raw nicotine, prepares a massive 100mg/ml batch in PG and another in VG. Dilutions from that point probably don't get much testing.

If we want strength in 24, 36, 48, 60, and 100mg/ml, in PG/VG ratios of 100% PG, 90/10, 80/20, 70/30 - - - - - 20/80, 10/90, 100%VG, do we also want the vendors to test each of these?
Just how large are each of these batches? and , how much does testing cost?
If a single test series costs $2000 that would add $5 to each 500ml of 100mg/ml bottle if the mix started out with 20 liters of pure nicotine. If a vendor diluted 5 liters of pure nicotine to make 50 liters of 100mg/ml then that $2000 would add $20 to the cost of a 500ml bottle.

Would I pay $5 more for a 500ml bottle of 100mg/ml if the actual batch mine came from was tested? YUP.

I'm aware, no dissing suspected

I just thought you knew something that I, and all of us, want to know

I'd pay 10$ extra but no more

EDIT: And if it really is 3 sources, I must say my senses aren't as useless as I thought they were

:ats self on back and returns to writing application materials and hating life:::

 

[casey8579]

exactly. all I know is, if I prescribe a patient 100 mg of X and it actually has 50/50 mgs of Y and Z, something bad will happen, clinically and legally. is there such consequence for a COA not matching an end product?

To the best of my knowledge a coa is not any kind of legal document. It is a document from the manufacturer to the purchaser verifying the chemical composition and that it meets the purchasers required specifications.

As a chemical hauler, every load I picked up contained a coa in the shipping documents from the manufacturer. The receiver most of the time would run their own labs and if their results did not match the coa within tolerances, then there would be a problem between the 2 companies but nothing of legal consequence that I know of.

 

[Jimi D.]

It's going to be real interesting when the FDA regulates the nicotine. Without proper COA's these vendors would be shut down.

 

[Rocketman]

You mean like the FDA regulates other stuff for our protection?
and shuts down how many places?

 

[Rocketman]

Here's an abbreviated set of test data from JC for flavored juice.
http://cdn.johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com/downloads/Test-results.pdf

Where does JC get their nicotine now?

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Not sure, also don't particularly care as I DIY, but sure looks like they're prepared for an impending smack down...

 

[casey8579]

Here's an abbreviated set of test data from JC for flavored juice.
http://cdn.johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com/downloads/Test-results.pdf

Where does JC get their nicotine now?

Although abbreviated, I like that coa, it shows complete testing lab info. When looking at that coa I have no doubts about the authenticity.