Good question, I too am interested in what @Kurt uses, as at the moment I am using ECX + Flash for my unflavored mix.
Nicotine Comparisons
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Good question, I too am interested in what @Kurt uses, as at the moment I am using ECX + Flash for my unflavored mix.
For currently available nic, VT TH gives good pepper and TH for me. A lot to like about it. Virtually no taste to me, however quite satisfying all on its own. ECX NicSelect is also good, with a bit more taste and throat hit than VT TH. For more "rough" nics, with their own taste, most of what I have are not currently produced, but I have reserves in the freezer. Some I age/oxidize purposefully at room conditions, which will add pepper, TH and often a tobacco-like bite to any nic. But nics from several years ago often had their own character that was quite nice.
2011 Box Elder for me is still king. Nothing like it then or since. RTS from those years also has a nice bite and taste to me. RTS is probably different nic entirely now, and Box Elder I don't think is around anymore...and I have precious little left of either. Closest I have found to these currently is ECX, but ECX is much quieter than the vintage BE or RTS.
I recently tried USA Liquid Nicotine, from Liquid Barn, on a recommendation. Very odd. The smell of the 100 mg had the distinct smell of chlorine or bleach to me, and this really spooked my brain and stomach, and I could not enjoy the liquid I made from it. Anyone else smell bleach in this nic? Very little other than halogens smell like bleach, and so for now I am avoiding this one. Until I know what this chlorine smell is from, I can't go there.
Unfortunately for some here, since the market has gone towards more "invisible" nics, I don't think we are going to see any like those rougher ones that were so common a few years ago. An option to this is oxidation, which I generally do in LDPE over many months. This can give very good results for those that have patience. Of course for many this ruins the nic, and I've occasionally had less than ideal results with this approach. The only purposeful oxidation I know of in current nics is VT TH, which is their premium Chemnovatic that has had O2 bubbled through it.
Before Kurt himself elaborates on what he vapes, then I meanwhile will just say that unless he's changed then it's VT throat-hit for the price and slight pepper bite and TH... 15% water vg unflavored usually, last time i've read it...
Sorry Kurt I hope you don't mind...
You know my tastes well. For the money and overall satisfaction, hard to beat VT TH. Definitely my go to. Just got another batch into glass and cold storage.
But what I would give for a nic like 2011 Box Elder. Of course its a bit hypocritical for me to complain that BE is gone now. Those that were here at that time will know why I say this. But I do still have that 272 mg BE someone sent me back then, still in the freezer. Bet it will be outstanding after I dilute it, but I'll have to suit up and do that outside when it gets warm for ventilation. Dangerous stuff, had to work with it initially in a hood for testing, deep orange now, but could be awesome.
@Kurt Oh no, I'm new to DIY and I too went on recommendations from here and purchased the USA nic @ 100mg/vg from Liquid Barn. Maybe the upside is that I'll like it and if nothing else, I only got the 250ml bottle just in case lol. I haven't even mixed my first juice yet I'm waiting on the rest of my supplies to come.
I'm waiting on the rest of my supplies to come.
LB has fans. Can't be too bad@Kurt Oh no, I'm new to DIY and I too went on recommendations from here and purchased the USA nic @ 100mg/vg from Liquid Barn. Maybe the upside is that I'll like it and if nothing else, I only got the 250ml bottle just in case lol. I haven't even mixed my first juice yet
Yeah, but LB has two nics though and I think nicselect is the mostly used, but of course just guessing...
Anyway, unless having a really good palet and/or using unflavored and/or using high nic, then it's probably gonna be fine i'm guessing...
That bleachy type of flavor, I believe, is the one I always get and hate, with nicselect and chemnovatic nic, on unflavored 6mg+ at high power-levels/rda's...
Anyway, unless having a really good palet and/or using unflavored and/or using high nic, then it's probably gonna be fine i'm guessing...
That bleachy type of flavor, I believe, is the one I always get and hate, with nicselect and chemnovatic nic, on unflavored 6mg+ at high power-levels/rda's...
Yes, Liquid Barn sells both USA Liquid Nicotine and NicSelect. I got the NicSelect from EXC, however, since I wanted to get some other things there anyway. Glad I'm not the only one that detected a bleachy smell in the USA LN. I also catch it faintly when smelling the 18mg liquid I made from it directly, but not in the vape. To be clear, I do not know it is bleach/chlorine, so I cannot say it is any worse health wise than any other nic. Some here really like this nic. It just rubs me the wrong way.
Thanks for all the tips on clean nic!
... Just got a new batch of chemnovatic and new batch of nicselect to compare against and vaped unflavored, and the result is that both are really clean nics without any tobacco taste at all. They are both clear as water, and the chemnovatic had a slight leathery dark odor in addition to the stingy-in-noose "nic-alkaline-smell", but no tobacco notes. The nicselect had almost no leathery/dark notes and only the nic-smell.
The coa of chemnovatic's posted nics shows just that it's into spec(USP), but the nicselect is like always fully specified and lists all the other tobacco alkaloids that should be max 0.3% to be under 0.05%!. Crazy... Total impurities in spec for chemnovatic(under 0.8%) and for nicselect lists detailed the value as under 0.05% in total! Crazy again, lol. I seriously don't believe there's any nic that's cleaner than nicselect, although if some tastes better I cannot judge as can't order them unfortunetly i.e. cxtc and nude. I remember Kurt called it "crazy clean" once - the cleanest he'd seen...
I normally use 3mg, but have mixed small tests up as 6mg and 10mg and take very short slight hits as I have about 100w running through my mechs/rda's...
Anyway, at 6mg and up it tastes like .... to me, because I hate the alkaline taste of nic. In tobacco it's covered up by the other alkaloids some, but here in the ultra clean nics there's just a bitter sharp metallic corrosive taste at the tip of the tongue.
This makes sense as pure nic is 10-11ph alkaline, and e.g. check what flavor that represents here on this chart:
I feel there is very slight difference between these two nics and I haven't really found which I hates the least yet because I can only take so short hits and take breaks because of the higher-than-usual-nic amount. As they pretty much only are nic without the other alkaloids, then they are on par with just the to-me-bothersome taste left...
Anyway, I just wanted to add that to me nicselect is just as clean nic as chemnovatic(vt) and I seriously doubt anyone will ever beat there specs...
At 3mg which is my normal vape, the unflavored VG just looses a little of the sweetness which is nice and there's just a slight alkaline element left that isn't too powerfull and so is a nice vape to me.
I just don't get why I don't hear others stating that they taste the same as me??? Oh well
Edit: Hmm, since nobody else is stating this, then i'm in doubt if i'm just really unlucky and gotten nic whith reminiscents of e.g. kerosene or heptane etc from the extraction-process? Or maybe like the time with the rubber-affair, although this isn't rubber... I don't really think so, because the previous batches where the same, but the really annoying thing to me is that off all the EU vendors i've seen then they are all using nicselect or chemnovatic(and a few nicobrand which has both often bad reviews and several vendors switched to nicselect, but also because they add 20% water to there VG-nic, which is a no-go for me), so I cannot test any other nics to compare like all the ones you good folks here have in the states Anyway, in the chart I posted, it do seem to state that my feellings about the "nic true taste" is correct? I dunno Frustrating though... Btw, I found a company which would sell me nic from the states and just mark the bottles 'VG' and no mention of nic, which then would be OK, but as it's nicselect they use, then that's unfortunetly doesn't help me... Nude-nic still doesn't reply to my mails about selling me unnamed nic, and neither does a few others i've tried...
The coa of chemnovatic's posted nics shows just that it's into spec(USP), but the nicselect is like always fully specified and lists all the other tobacco alkaloids that should be max 0.3% to be under 0.05%!. Crazy... Total impurities in spec for chemnovatic(under 0.8%) and for nicselect lists detailed the value as under 0.05% in total! Crazy again, lol. I seriously don't believe there's any nic that's cleaner than nicselect, although if some tastes better I cannot judge as can't order them unfortunetly i.e. cxtc and nude. I remember Kurt called it "crazy clean" once - the cleanest he'd seen...
I normally use 3mg, but have mixed small tests up as 6mg and 10mg and take very short slight hits as I have about 100w running through my mechs/rda's...
Anyway, at 6mg and up it tastes like .... to me, because I hate the alkaline taste of nic. In tobacco it's covered up by the other alkaloids some, but here in the ultra clean nics there's just a bitter sharp metallic corrosive taste at the tip of the tongue.
This makes sense as pure nic is 10-11ph alkaline, and e.g. check what flavor that represents here on this chart:
I feel there is very slight difference between these two nics and I haven't really found which I hates the least yet because I can only take so short hits and take breaks because of the higher-than-usual-nic amount. As they pretty much only are nic without the other alkaloids, then they are on par with just the to-me-bothersome taste left...
Anyway, I just wanted to add that to me nicselect is just as clean nic as chemnovatic(vt) and I seriously doubt anyone will ever beat there specs...
At 3mg which is my normal vape, the unflavored VG just looses a little of the sweetness which is nice and there's just a slight alkaline element left that isn't too powerfull and so is a nice vape to me.
I just don't get why I don't hear others stating that they taste the same as me??? Oh well
Edit: Hmm, since nobody else is stating this, then i'm in doubt if i'm just really unlucky and gotten nic whith reminiscents of e.g. kerosene or heptane etc from the extraction-process? Or maybe like the time with the rubber-affair, although this isn't rubber... I don't really think so, because the previous batches where the same, but the really annoying thing to me is that off all the EU vendors i've seen then they are all using nicselect or chemnovatic(and a few nicobrand which has both often bad reviews and several vendors switched to nicselect, but also because they add 20% water to there VG-nic, which is a no-go for me), so I cannot test any other nics to compare like all the ones you good folks here have in the states
Anyway, in the chart I posted, it do seem to state that my feellings about the "nic true taste" is correct? I dunno Frustrating though... Btw, I found a company which would sell me nic from the states and just mark the bottles 'VG' and no mention of nic, which then would be OK, but as it's nicselect they use, then that's unfortunetly doesn't help me... Nude-nic still doesn't reply to my mails about selling me unnamed nic, and neither does a few others i've tried...
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@mhertz 's awesome breakdown is why we can't rely on comparing nicotine "manufacturer's". We have to compare suppliers and their reliability over multiple orders. The suppliers receive the nic as 1000mg (100%), dilute it with VG and/or PG, package, store and ship. Then it's at the mercy of the carrier.
A good acquaintance owns a national e-liquid company (and pretty good one at that). When I first started DIY, he told me that NicSelect was the best. My first batch of NicSelect came from ECX and it was awful. I can't remember where the second batch came from. It was better but not good. Both NN and VT (Chemnovatic) were recommended to me. I ordered a NN sample and VT premium 120ml. Both were good but the VT stood out.
Looking to reduce cost a bit, I picked up a 120ml, on sale, from MFS. It was ok, better than either batch of NicSelect. It cut the sweetness of VG and muted certain flavorings though. Then VT started selling their TH Nic for $25/liter and I haven't looked back since. Each batch has been consistently excellent. I can't imagine a better nic for the cost.
I believe the quality and consistency of suppliers has effected much of our findings and indeed our individual experiences. Unless we're willing to go directly to the source and pay for premium nic (CXTC, for example), I'm thinking that the DIY community will continue to have different experiences from the same vendors. It's unfortunate but seems a reality.
A good acquaintance owns a national e-liquid company (and pretty good one at that). When I first started DIY, he told me that NicSelect was the best. My first batch of NicSelect came from ECX and it was awful. I can't remember where the second batch came from. It was better but not good. Both NN and VT (Chemnovatic) were recommended to me. I ordered a NN sample and VT premium 120ml. Both were good but the VT stood out.
Looking to reduce cost a bit, I picked up a 120ml, on sale, from MFS. It was ok, better than either batch of NicSelect. It cut the sweetness of VG and muted certain flavorings though. Then VT started selling their TH Nic for $25/liter and I haven't looked back since. Each batch has been consistently excellent. I can't imagine a better nic for the cost.
I believe the quality and consistency of suppliers has effected much of our findings and indeed our individual experiences. Unless we're willing to go directly to the source and pay for premium nic (CXTC, for example), I'm thinking that the DIY community will continue to have different experiences from the same vendors. It's unfortunate but seems a reality.
Was that the Nicselect from awhile back, or recently? Sure seems like they have gotten better lately.
Fresh new batch... Alchem nic batch 469102612134-469102701001 and lot/cert: 03116/16N033. Made 02/16-2016.
I got it from my preferred nicselect vendor in UK. Preferred, because he orders the nic already diluted directly from alchem switzerland division and gets a COA from alchem also for the diluted product, so I can see exactly how many mg nic exactly in the bottle I got, and water, density etc. The only downside is that since it's UK, then it's only 72mg nic(73.29mg in my bottle states the COA), so takes up more space. No water added in VG-nic(0.1% water states the COA) and very thick.
Alchem also has dilutions in 100mg, so some US vendors probably also sells nicselect like that.
Of course it's also fine that the vendor himself dilutes the nic, but we don't get a COA for that and need to titrate ourself, and I trust alchem better for the dilution than some random ecig-vendor in general...
I buy it from vapersemporium.co.uk btw, but also know there's other UK vendors selling alchem-pre-diluted nicselect, but don't know if they also supply proper COAs and mark bottles with according batch-numbers, like vapersemporium.co.uk does...
I got it from my preferred nicselect vendor in UK. Preferred, because he orders the nic already diluted directly from alchem switzerland division and gets a COA from alchem also for the diluted product, so I can see exactly how many mg nic exactly in the bottle I got, and water, density etc. The only downside is that since it's UK, then it's only 72mg nic(73.29mg in my bottle states the COA), so takes up more space. No water added in VG-nic(0.1% water states the COA) and very thick.
Alchem also has dilutions in 100mg, so some US vendors probably also sells nicselect like that.
Of course it's also fine that the vendor himself dilutes the nic, but we don't get a COA for that and need to titrate ourself, and I trust alchem better for the dilution than some random ecig-vendor in general...
I buy it from vapersemporium.co.uk btw, but also know there's other UK vendors selling alchem-pre-diluted nicselect, but don't know if they also supply proper COAs and mark bottles with according batch-numbers, like vapersemporium.co.uk does...
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I purchased the Nicselect in Oct of 2014... I now have 2 liters of VT TH in the freezer, which is over a 12 year supply for me the way I'm currently vaping. I'm perfectly happy with this, especially at $25/liter.
Nicselect has been my go to. Sounds like the vt th is also very good for the money.
The usaLN is not my favorite. It has a different taste that comes through and seems the quality control isn't up to par with the leaders. Mine does have that slight chemical burn quality older nic used to have that you get through the nose. For the price and taste I choose the others.
The usaLN is not my favorite. It has a different taste that comes through and seems the quality control isn't up to par with the leaders. Mine does have that slight chemical burn quality older nic used to have that you get through the nose. For the price and taste I choose the others.
What type of bottle does VT TH come in? I assume plastic?
I still have 3 liters stored in 120ml glass in the freezer. A mix of WL, MFS, and RTS. The oldest is Aug 2013 and every bottle that comes out is perfect.
I want to add 2 liters at some point (I mix for 4 people). If I buy the VT TH I will probably store in 1 liter bottles because they won't be touched for many years. My plan is to break down the liters into 120ml bottles once I get through 2 liters that I have stored now. Basically recycle the bottles I already own instead of buying a whole bunch more. I'm convinced that nic most likely has a freezer life of 10+ years with little issue or degradation.
I still have 3 liters stored in 120ml glass in the freezer. A mix of WL, MFS, and RTS. The oldest is Aug 2013 and every bottle that comes out is perfect.
I want to add 2 liters at some point (I mix for 4 people). If I buy the VT TH I will probably store in 1 liter bottles because they won't be touched for many years. My plan is to break down the liters into 120ml bottles once I get through 2 liters that I have stored now. Basically recycle the bottles I already own instead of buying a whole bunch more. I'm convinced that nic most likely has a freezer life of 10+ years with little issue or degradation.
The VT TH came in plastic. I re-bottled before freezing.
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