Nicotine Comparisons

[mikepetro]

Well, the Titration theory was a total bust, it wasnt even worth dragging all the stuff out.

The Control samples titrated out just fine. However neither of the CA samples would work. As soon as I dropped the bromothymol blue in the sample it turned brownish yellow. I never could get to a blue sample in order to titrate it.

So, is that telling me that my CA Mix samples are BELOW a neutral ph? Or is this just not a valid test method when CA is involved.

 

[mikepetro]

OK, my subjective take on the 3 samples.

• The control was more harsh as expected, although surprisingly not much more than my normal 36mg.
  
• I honestly could not tell much of a difference (subjectively of physiologically) between the cold and hot mixes. If anything at all the hot mix was a tick more harsh. One thing I did notice was that neither CA mix made me sneeze (not even once and I have been nic buzzed all day) like the control does if I vape too much.

Physiologically, I do get more of a mellow buzz off the CA mixes. No "rush" but a sustained nic buzz. Much less of the nose and throat irritation. I also got more buzz, but that likely is because it is a higher nic mg than I am used to.

I "suspect" that the CA mixes wont oxidize (yellow) as fast.

Anyway, this stuff is too strong to be my ADV. So I mixed all the samples together, added some peach flavoring, and cut the mix down to 36mg. I do think the CA has somewhat muted the flavoring, but I really need to make that judgement tomorrow, as I may well have muted my tastebuds with all of this sampling.

Still dont get why juul is mixing theirs so strong. I suspect it to make up for the weak hardware.

 

[mikepetro]

All of that being said, next time I mix a master batch of juice, I will be adding some CA. Just need to play with the ratios some.

 

[gt_1955]

Still dont get why Juul is mixing theirs so strong. I suspect it to make up for the weak hardware.

Yep, to overcome the inefficiencies of low powered hardware, and appears to do the trick. 45mg/ml is too strong for me as well, and I'll be remixing it down today to 36mg/ml.

 

[440BB]

As irritation has been an issue for me for some time, even at 8mg with low wattage, the cold mix is worth a shot. Thanks for sharing your tests Mike!

 

[mikepetro]

As irritation has been an issue for me for some time, even at 8mg with low wattage, the cold mix is worth a shot. Thanks for sharing your tests Mike!

The way I did it for this trial was:

• Heat 100ml of pg, good and hot, didnt measure temp.
• Stir in 100g of citric acid.
• Continue stirring until dissolved, took a while. Note: stirring introduced tiny bubbles that at first glance still looked like undissolved granules, letting mixture sit for a minute allowed bubbles to rise.
  
• Allowed to cool to room temp
• Resulting mixture is very thick, like cold vg.
• Measured addition to mix in ml.

 

[mikepetro]

Crossposting because its important...

OK, Evolv finally published this data publicly now about the spike of formaldehyde and Acetaldehyde spiking like a sky rocket very quickly, double what is found in a cigarette, starting around 470F-480F.

Temperature Control is IMPORTANT folks!

Start about 6 minutes in:

 

[mikepetro]

Use temp control and dont go above 450Fish if you want to minimize exposure.

Turns out VG is worse than PG with regards to formaldehyde:

Significant amounts of toxic carbonyl compounds can be created when common e-liquid solvents—i.e., PG, GL, or their mixture—are heated at high temperature, either intentionally by users to get more aerosol or accidently due to overheating. GL produced much more formaldehyde than PG under our testing conditions

A Device-Independent Evaluation of Carbonyl Emissions from Heated Electronic Cigarette Solvents

 

[Dubminer]

Use temp control and dont go above 450Fish if you want to minimize exposure.

Turns out VG is worse than PG with regards to formaldehyde:



A Device-Independent Evaluation of Carbonyl Emissions from Heated Electronic Cigarette Solvents

This is kind of what i suspected, i vape 50/50 at around 10 watts in power mode or 410F in TC. Only unflavored now.

 

[sofarsogood]

I've been tootling along for 18 months in TC mode, 400 degrees and 30 max watts on a 1.3 ohm coil, 10 mg, 1% flavoring, 4-7 ml a day.

I'm sure it's possible to make the big clouds below 470 degrees with the right build, so don't dispair all you cloud chaser guys.

 

[mikepetro]

I've been tootling along for 18 months in TC mode, 400 degrees and 30 max watts on a 1.3 ohm coil, 10 mg, 1% flavoring, 4-7 ml a day.

I'm sure it's possible to make the big clouds below 470 degrees with the right build, so don't dispair all you cloud chaser guys.

Massive coil surface area is the key there, and watch the VG, the more VG the lower the safe temp gets.

 

[sofarsogood]

Massive coil surface area is the key there, and watch the VG, the more VG the lower the safe temp gets.

Are these observations you're making from a document we can look at?

 

[mikepetro]

Are these observations you're making from a document we can look at?

The massive surface area thing is just pure physics. The more saturated coil surface area you have, at any given temp, the more liquid you boil off into an aerosol.

The VG lower the safe range thing is in the study I quoted above:
A Device-Independent Evaluation of Carbonyl Emissions from Heated Electronic Cigarette Solvents

 

[sofarsogood]

The massive surface area thing is just pure physics. The more saturated coil surface area you have, at any given temp, the more liquid you boil off into an aerosol.

The VG lower the safe range thing is in the study I quoted above:
A Device-Independent Evaluation of Carbonyl Emissions from Heated Electronic Cigarette Solvents

I believe I found the relevent charts. At 400 degrees or below there is virtually no bad stuff being created in their test. When i got started in tc I fiddled with setting for a few months and settled on 400 degrees. because it gave me the vape i wanted. I also settled on 30 max watts because i didn't like the results of going higher or lower. It needs to be observed i'm a wimpy tootle puffer and don't give a rats as(s) about clouds. It still begs some questions worth asking. How does vaping at higher than 400 degrees compare with smoking? How significant are the health implications even at the higher levels? These questions are never addressed in this kind of study or anywhere else because the purpose is to frighten, not inform. But I'd like to be informed by somebody I trust and that wouldd be Dr. F and only Dr F. He's the only guy I listen to these days. I wish there were others but there aren't.

Shout out to Dr. F, is there anything you can tell us about this study?

 

[mikepetro]

 

[mikepetro]

I believe I found the relevent charts. At 400 degrees or below there is virtually no bad stuff being created in their test. When i got started in tc I fiddled with setting for a few months and settled on 400 degrees. because it gave me the vape i wanted. I also settled on 30 max watts because i didn't like the results of going higher or lower. It needs to be observed i'm a wimpy tootle puffer and don't give a rats as(s) about clouds. It still begs some questions worth asking. How does vaping at higher than 400 degrees compare with smoking? How significant are the health implications even at the higher levels? These questions are never addressed in this kind of study or anywhere else because the purpose is to frighten, not inform. But I'd like to be informed by somebody I trust and that wouldd be Dr. F and only Dr F. He's the only guy I listen to these days. I wish there were others but there aren't.

Shout out to Dr. F, is there anything you can tell us about this study?

You have your guy, I have mine.

I believe Dr @Kurt myself (who has posted extensively on ECF, and in this very thread), and he was also part of these presentations.

 

[sofarsogood]

View attachment 639179

Interesting stuff. At the risk of being argumentative, what is the health signifiance of the levels of these specific chemicals in smoking absent all the other nasties you get from smoking? I don't have a clue. May be a lot, may be not so much. Still, I'd like to see some rational boundaries in the vape world based on trustworthy science. Dr. F has expressed concern that may be there can be too much of a good thing and that must be right so how about some qualified people who aren't bought and paid for by somebody finding useful answers to the relevent questions. Most vapers will take advice they can trust but who would those trustworthy people be? The tobacco business is ginormous. If it collapses there will be plenty of economic distress for the good guys and the bad guys. Everybody with a financial stake gives me the creeps. My stake is in the freezer.

 

[mikepetro]

Whatever,

I am just sharing what appears to be credible recent research. Believe what you want to believe. I am not here to argue.

Follow the links, watch the presentations, and decide for yourself.

Committee on the Review of the Health Effects of Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems (ENDS): An Information-Gathering Workshop
2/21/17 - Welcome : Health and Medicine Division

Click the PLUS buttons to see the collection of about 20 videos:

 

[Cool_Breeze]

@mikepetro Thanks for the links to the information at plos.org and the video presentations at The National Academies. It's good to see these types of efforts being conducted.

 

[aikanae1]

Here's a link to Kurt's presentation


Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk