Nicotine Comparisons

[Cyrus Vap]

I just placed an order of Tom's Vapor nic base. 100 mg VG and a bottle of 50 mg PG. I'm confident that this nic is going to be really good.

Did I hear VG?! Bro you're coming to the dark side, don't exhale directly in front of you while you're driving you won't be able to see a thing LOL

 

[Jimi D.]

Did I hear VG?! Bro you're coming to the dark side, don't exhale directly in front of you while you're driving you won't be able to see a thing LOL

LOL BUSTED!!! Yes I was thinking about it yesterday. I'll have 2 years on the ECF tomorrow, and I should try it. I might need your help on the right consistency.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Kurt throws out a formula that amounts to:

PG + flavoring + water +PGA ~ 23%

Basically 23% dilution goodies, this is rough

I've found that PGA > water > PG as far as thinning

That's for maximum flow (it'll be carto friendly). In an atomizer (dripping, bottom feeding) its totally unnecessary, but I do think water/pga will open up flavor significantly. In a genisis I can usually scrape by with a total of ~10% dilution and no issues.

Some will say diluting VG reduces the vapor, and as usual, they're wrong lol. If you don't go past 20% DW or so you won't notice a drop in vapor, just a change in texture (less heavy on the airway/throat, perhaps a good/bad thing depending on what you want) and a boost in flavor.

 

[Jimi D.]

Finally got a tracking # on this mystery nic. It was like pulling horse teeth ! LOL

 

[Jimi D.]

Ok I got some weird shyte going on here. I bought some nic to try from Tom's vapor. I sent him an email awhile back, asking about his nic source. He replied: USA extracted. I received another e mail later, that he gets it from Acros chemical company in New Jersey. He also mentioned that it was actually extracted in Europe. So I ordered some. Being that I like my nic clear and clean, I get this yellow doo doo. I took a whiff, and I recognized that aroma. A smell like cactus, and or sulfur. Well I went to my cabinet, and pulled out an old bottle of RTS 100mg and BINGO!!! The same shyte!!! That got me thinking. Is he ordering his nic from RTS or do they get the pure nic from Acros???

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Bump for Kemosabe

 

[Jimi D.]

"Gonna buy Some Cheap Molasses"

 

[~Sue~Feb2012]

Nice post and welcome. Now, get back here and put some names to those good and not so good suppliers .

Sorry it's been months since I came to this thread! I'm enjoying myfreedomsmokes VG 24mg and 36 mg nic bases. I'll order from Wizard Labs one of these days too, just to compare as I've seen/read good stuff about them too.

 

[~Sue~Feb2012]

LMAO this made me laugh. Ohhhh RTS, another home run.

sorry you were in the dark, but now you're in the know

and if it makes you feel better I vaped my entire bottle of that filthy gruel lol

you vaped through the entire bottle ewwwwwwwwww yuk
nope I ended up throwing my rts nics out (including the DIY flavors that I had whipped up with it )

 

[Cyrus Vap]

you vaped through the entire bottle ewwwwwwwwww yuk
nope I ended up throwing my rts nics out (including the DIY flavors that I had whipped up with it )

Hell I'm stubborn

If you go for the Wizard see if John is still offering samples of ice. Wizard regular as fantastic, but won't offer much of a contrast (if any) to MFS, but the Ice will

 

[~Sue~Feb2012]

mmm Ice sounds cool, I mean good so I'll have to ask them...thanks for the tip Cyrus Vap!

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Please keep us posted!

 

[wolcen]

Looks like we may need an update to the thread, as RTS has changed their nic extraction:

A good result from our bad batch is we have improved the quality of our nicotine by adding a 7th step to the extraction process. Our most recent batches of pure liquid nicotine have been crystal clear with zero odor when new. Our nicotine now has an ever so slightly improved throat hit. Strength has increased on average 0.04%. The lot numbers of our new improved nicotine start with an "X" in lieu of the usually "N". RTS Vapes liquid nicotine is now USP grade.

Having already settled on a favorite nic source, I'm not interested personally, but it's only fair to point out the recent change.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

A good result from our bad batch is we have improved the quality of our nicotine by adding a 7th step to the extraction process. Our most recent batches of pure liquid nicotine have been crystal clear with zero odor when new. Our nicotine now has an ever so slightly improved throat hit. Strength has increased on average 0.04%. The lot numbers of our new improved nicotine start with an "X" in lieu of the usually "N". RTS Vapes liquid nicotine is now USP grade.

This thread has strange fans

What's strength? Strength of what? The undiluted, base extraction?

So does this post mean previous batches of RTS had color and odor when new?

USP grade...I can't get started on this right now, I have a nasty headache and need coffee. But I find that statement interesting. What prevented it from meeting USP specs before? There was no USP claim before? (I don't remember honestly)

bbl friends

 

[wolcen]

This thread has strange fans

What's strength? Strength of what? The undiluted, base extraction?

So does this post mean previous batches of RTS had color and odor when new?

USP grade...I can't get started on this right now, I have a nasty headache and need coffee. But I find that statement interesting. What prevented it from meeting USP specs before? There was no USP claim before? (I don't remember honestly)

bbl friends

Who you calling strange, bub?

That discussion started at post 1293 (and stretches through around 1450 or so) where casey8579 asked if it was USP.

I have not bothered to ask about the increased spend for step 7, or the new percentages, or any sort of certification - I only read the thread now because it's occasionally interesting. One would expect they'll be sharing the certification of analysis now. They have put up their test results previously (current doc appears to be from [guessing] two batches ago still).

ETA: For the record, I did email a number of suppliers of "USP nic" and none of them presented a CoA. Very disappointing. The statement that the FDA doesn't extend beyond US borders is false. FWIW China is not the only foreign source of pure nic (India, UK, Belgium, prob others).

ETA2: The document linked from their site matches the result values for their "LOT NO.: P7 Date: April 2012" (post 1313)

Straight answer is no. We have never stated our pure liquid nicotine, (which we never sell without first diluting), is USP grade. The specification (recipe) we have developed has criteria, that if obtained by our subcontracted laboratory on a particular batch, meets European Union pharmaceutical grade qualification. About 60% of our batches meet European Union pharmaceutical grade qualification. United States pharmaceutical grade requires additional certification and verification of the process in action and is not necessary for vaping. It is required for medicine which would include stop smoking aids such as nasal spray, gum and patches.

We use a 6 step extraction process, forgetting the additional certification and verification of the process required for USP grade, we would have to add a 7th and possibly 8th step to hit 99.9% consistently which would add another 15% to 20% to our cost. Sometimes the batches are 99.82%.

Close enough for vaping.

Edit: The real question that should be asked is what is in the percentage not equaling 100%. Example 100% -99.9%= 0.1% or 100% -99.81= 0.18%. What I never see anyone on this forum ask is what is in that 0.1%, 0.18% or for some vendors 2.5%? That is what we test for and what is really important. Is it water, ok fine. Is it solvents not boiled off from the extraction process? Is it heavy metals? And last but not least how many parts per million arsenic content is contained in the nicotine? Testing for these elements determines if the batch is safe or not. All plants have a certain level of arsenic content. Therefore, all liquid nicotine has some arsenic in it. We allow 1 ppm maximum of any of the above except for H20 which is fine.

Perhaps I am wrong but I would stack our nicotine up against any other company's nicotine. Just has many have questioned RTS's claims of US extraction, if I were you I would like to see a PDF of the FDA certification papers for this USP pharmaceutical nicotine.

Well the one that states, "Our liquid nicotine is made from USP Grade 99.8% pure (998mg/ml) nicotine." shows it is not USP because it would have to be 99.9%.

So believe what you want. It appears real easy to place the word USP before the word nicotine. We have posted our lab test results several times. Even if you exceed the 99.9% on a batch it is not USP grade unless the FDA has certified the process and that it was extracted in a "CLEAN ROOM".

I also hate to tell you FDA inspectors do not leave the borders of the USA so any Chinese company saying they are selling USP grade nicotine is blowing smoke. RJ Reynolds and another company Signa . something out of New Jersey manufacture true USP nicotine in the US and it goes for close to a $1,000 a liter not $150 like the Chinese sell it for.

It is possible because what is really being measured is mg strength which gets equated to a percentage. For example pure nicotine equates to 1000 mg strength. It is usually advertised as 998 mg or 999 mg. Hence the percentage conversion of 99.8% to 99.9% but I have read it is possible to get slightly over 1000 mg, I believe the figure was approximately 1002\1003 mg as the highest possible.

 

[Jimi D.]

It's just a sales pitch.

 

[wolcen]

It's just a sales pitch.

LOL Jimi.

I think of it as a necessary response to the ever increasing proliferation of [near] tasteless USP nic at many other vendors.

According to their website, they now do extraction in Pennsylvania. The site also now says "We are proud to state all of our tests have shown from 99.92% to 99.96% pure nicotine." It does not go on to say "all of our tests" means just since the most recent batch (or two?). Their last analysis posted still states 99.864%.

 

[Iffy]

What prevented it from meeting USP specs before? There was no USP claim before?

My understanding is that once a 'UPS certified' product is opened, as in for repackaging, the certification is no longer valid. That is UNLESS the repackage facility is also UPS certified.

 

[r77r7r]

I took my first and only bottle of RTS outside to spray the ants this summer. 50,000 died on the spot. 3 survived and looked around at all the dead, and ran off to their nests to tell them how good...............................

Seriously tho, I appreciate the work done on this thread and have since used some Xtremevaping for a few months- it's great!! When I used OSDIYShop, it was very good, but left a very slight smell and film on things. (70/30 unflavored). XV- I could vape for hours and you couldn't tell I was even in the room afterwards.

Next stop for me is a few 60ml bottles of 12mg from WL (with some ICE, I hope). If their pricing doesn't change, looks like I'll stay there- I could vape all week (40ml) for $2.50, or less.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

My understanding was that most vendors that claim their nic is "USP" are actually saying it meets USP standards, NOT that it is legally certified as such?

To be honest, such certification wouldn't make me feel any more or less safe, even if it extended to the packaging room etc. The repackaging and dilution issue is real. And I'm very familiar with how facilities behave before, during, and after they know an inspector is coming.

There is a bit of faith involved regardless of who our source and certifier is. There's just no way around it. If someone I have decided to trust like Wizard tells me their nic meets USP standards, I'm cool with it until I see an option that makes me feel safer I guess.

Wolcen I meant RTS of course, not you. Some of the words in the quote you posted seemed relevant to some concerns raised in this thread