Nicotine Comparisons
- Thread starter Cyrus Vap
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Hi Jimi,
Speaking of taste and smell, i have none, so im here mostly to learn.
Now Kurt did say this in the recent post that was linked. This is nic in PG stored in the freezer.
"Became orange-yellow after a year. Flavor had a distinct tobacco taste, actually quit nice! I cannot vape PG, so I gave that away, and the person who got it really likes that flavor.
sorry I misread that
well if its only triggered by the mfs nic, then I guess you've caught your suspect
I remember asking MFS and xtremevaping about the PG and VG they used, I never got a response lol
LOL. Since the title says Nicotine comparisons, I thought we just might be talking about nicotine. Maybe read the title before correcting someone.
I'm sure I would like the taste. But my Wife wouldn't like it with her cinnamon bun. I jusy\t hope that the FDA doesn't ban our nic base.
It's all about taste. Nicotine keeps its strength much longer than how it changes the flavor in the final mix.
No, but I trust WL long before I trust anyone else for PG, or VG.
In their nicotine statement, they say it can be clear, to pale yellow. I trust them on this too, and see nothing wrong with some coloration. Obviously, they know what they are doing.
In their nicotine statement, they say it can be clear, to pale yellow. I trust them on this too, and see nothing wrong with some coloration. Obviously, they know what they are doing.
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...now at a reduced price.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/sale-trade/374412-us-fs-2000ml-vz-nicotine-50mg-50-50-a.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/sale-trade/374412-us-fs-2000ml-vz-nicotine-50mg-50-50-a.html
Cyrus these boys are getting lippy on your thread ...
I'm sitting here just hoping you're going to get lippy soon, I love when that happens
I'm sitting here just hoping you're going to get lippy soon, I love when that happens
Its getting hot in here Horsie....
must be from all the.....nicotine comparisons 
LOL
Its getting hot in here Horsie....
I need to go to work! LOL
sorry about your troubles
Shocked that you find the MFS and WLR to be substantially different. Did you try them side by side unflavored?
My MFS 100 mg VG from January of 2010 is quite preserved in my freezer, and it is possible CHris is using a different nic now. I think it was you, Cy, that told me he is using WL nic now, but I could be wrong on that. But the MFS from 2010 does have a rather aromatic taste and smell, which does penetrate into flavored juices, and is very prominent in an unflavored juice. At the time I didn't know better and I recall just getting used to it, that's what nic tastes like, etc. I don't think that now. That taste is possibly a residual solvent, as it has an alkane-like quality to it. But before there are any torches and pitchforks, that is 2010 MFS, NOT current production, which I do not have any of. But as an observation, with the MFS I have, I concur about a particular taste. Not pleasant, like pure nic can be, sort of a queezy taste.
Just got a shipment from WL. 1 L of 100 mg VG regular nic, and samples of 100 mg VG Ice and 100 mg VG Ultra-pure. Have not tried the Ultra-pure yet, and don't plan to for a while.
Ice: this is the most unflavored nic I have had. There is just nothing there in any significant amount. The scent of the 100 mg liquid is remarkably reduced compared to RTS (very high quality nic, seen the specs) and Box Elder (also very high quality). WL Ice will be perfect for flavored juices, since there is nothing there to compete with the chosen flavorings. Good TH, some pepper.
Therefore it is not a nic I would care to vape unflavored!
WL regular: also very low scent and taste, but a taste is definitely present. Sort of like hay. Maybe that's why you like it, Cyrus!
Definite hay, reasonable pepper, good TH as long as I thin with 20% water. Do I detect a touch of caramel too? Very faint, but present to me. Its good, and low in taste and flavor enough that a flavored juice will be good with it too. For unflavored vaping, however, I want a good acrid bite. RTS and BE both have that, with BE having more flavor than RTS. Not everyone wants that, of course, but I like my unflavored nic to have a distinct punch. I want it to be peppery in the nose, maybe even make me sneeze. The highest pepper level I have found is MFS, but now I am wondering if it is related to an impurity, like that aromatic taste, in addition to the nic. It is the bite and the pepper that are part of the satisfaction I get from vaping.
For tobacco juices, WL regular will be fine. For deserts or very subtly-flavored juices, the Ice will be better. But regular WL will probably also be fine, since its own taste is so faint.
The WL Ice, however, is really making me wonder about nic flavor. It is clearly high-grade...but so is RTS. RTS has about the highest specs of any nic I have seen analysis of. Crazy pure. And yet, to me, it has a distinct taste. BE is also very high-grade, also has a distinctive taste, more so than RTS, but similar: tight, sharp, with medium pepper.
I have also found that Vermont Vapor 35 mg VG, which is thinned with water by the vendor, and also has citric acid added to lower pH, ages into a kind of tobacco juice over time at room temp. I gave a 50 mL bottle to someone two Christmases ago, and he just slowly used it over the course of a year, bottle at room temp, no cold-storage. I gave him another bottle this Christmas and a couple days later he calls me to ask why this one doesn't taste as good as the one I gave him before. Well, this recent bottle was fresh out of my freezer, had not yellowed at all, and he got it fresh. The old one had "aged" and yellowed over the course of a year, into a more tobacco-like flavor. But even fresh, it does have a sort of popcorn-like scent and taste, which I have always known as one of the ways nicotine presents itself.
The PG-nic that went tobacco in my freezer was Totally Wicked Red Label unflavored. So that is an example of turning in the freezer over the course of a year. That does NOT seem to be related necessarily to PG, although the lower viscosity is important, rather it is what was in with the nic, maybe, when that liquid was made. For example, DV 54 mg PG, which uses pharma-grade nic, did not change at all in my freezer after a year. This is why I have said I get mixed results with PG-nic, but all VG-nics I have do not change in the freezer.
WL is making me rethink all I thought I knew about the flavor of high-grade nic. Especially the Ice. How can it have NO flavor, and almost no smell?? This is baffling to me, and I have contacted John about this very thing. I would love to see the full lab analysis of this nic. RTS in terms of purity has been the best I have seen. But that may be about to change!
I bought both WL and MFS nic in the last month. They are both sitting on my desk right now. I don't know if I might have gotten an old batch or something but the MFS nic is definitely not the same as WL nic. I'm no expert but I would bet money they are not the same. They smell different and definitely taste different.
I have 2 bottles of MFS nic - 1 in PG and 1 in VG and they both seem similar to each other but different from WL (I got the regular WL).
I have 2 bottles of MFS nic - 1 in PG and 1 in VG and they both seem similar to each other but different from WL (I got the regular WL).
Kurt first off thank you so much for popping in here, long overdue
You guys got me so riled up that I pulled my new wizard regular out of the freezer to mix up and try unflavored next to the MFS that's sitting on my desk
I'm running the DID with MFS and the ZAP with WLR, similar coil configurations and wick densities.
Kurt I hear you on the caramel and hay lol. This is new, I didn't pick this up last time, so either its the power of suggestion or...its actually there. Either way there's an earthy thing that I think caramel and hay sums up nicely,.
Going on memory I've noted that the smoother nics (WLI and RTS) pick up more or less of this earthy thing (I called it rotting nuts when I found it to be hog wild in the RTS) as they age. It's probably the absence of pepper that makes it jump out at me in that context. Recently I mixed a batch of blueberry with the ice and it jumped out at me with a vengeance for some reason, made another batch with MFS and it went away. Maybe the pepper "hides" it.
The rub is now that I'm looking for it I'm getting the same from the MFS lol (meaning caramel, hay)
I'm getting a hair more nose burn and general pepper from the MFS. Problem here is the MFS mix is 18% PG/82% aqueous VG (home cooked at 15% DW) the WLR is 85% VG/ 15% DW, so the PG maybe accentuating it, maybe not.
They're both giving me that aromatic, flavor thing I've sloppily described as 'alkaline' in the past. They both remind me of snus.
I'm finding them close as I did before, perhaps a bit more different than in my initial musings, but then again MFS much older. Since my batch of MFS is from March 2012, I'm curious to see what I'd think of a new bottle of the stuff. But if Kurt's picking up alkane I'm freaking out a bit LOL.
Kurt if I may, I have two questions for you
-when it comes to purity, you've seen the ECX data, RTS and MFS are up on the websites I believe. Is there much of a difference in the numbers/info?
-when VG heads like us pull a frozen bottle of 100mg out of the freezer and it thaws, should we be shaking the hell out of it to make sure everything is mixed before uncapping (what I do), or is this a bad idea as it will agitate the solution and increase oxidation? Sometimes if I'm impatient I'll immerse the bottle in warmish water a few times to get things flowing (not boiling though), likewise don't know if that gives the solution a 'thermal shock' and makes it oxidize faster or not?
Alright, now I'm feeling a little spinny, need to take it easy. Later for now
PS: I really need to get some box elder!
You guys got me so riled up that I pulled my new wizard regular out of the freezer to mix up and try unflavored next to the MFS that's sitting on my desk
I'm running the DID with MFS and the ZAP with WLR, similar coil configurations and wick densities.
Kurt I hear you on the caramel and hay lol. This is new, I didn't pick this up last time, so either its the power of suggestion or...its actually there. Either way there's an earthy thing that I think caramel and hay sums up nicely,.
Going on memory I've noted that the smoother nics (WLI and RTS) pick up more or less of this earthy thing (I called it rotting nuts when I found it to be hog wild in the RTS) as they age. It's probably the absence of pepper that makes it jump out at me in that context. Recently I mixed a batch of blueberry with the ice and it jumped out at me with a vengeance for some reason, made another batch with MFS and it went away. Maybe the pepper "hides" it.
The rub is now that I'm looking for it I'm getting the same from the MFS lol
(meaning caramel, hay)I'm getting a hair more nose burn and general pepper from the MFS. Problem here is the MFS mix is 18% PG/82% aqueous VG (home cooked at 15% DW) the WLR is 85% VG/ 15% DW, so the PG maybe accentuating it, maybe not.
They're both giving me that aromatic, flavor thing I've sloppily described as 'alkaline' in the past. They both remind me of snus.
I'm finding them close as I did before, perhaps a bit more different than in my initial musings, but then again MFS much older. Since my batch of MFS is from March 2012, I'm curious to see what I'd think of a new bottle of the stuff. But if Kurt's picking up alkane I'm freaking out a bit LOL.
Kurt if I may, I have two questions for you
-when it comes to purity, you've seen the ECX data, RTS and MFS are up on the websites I believe. Is there much of a difference in the numbers/info?
-when VG heads like us pull a frozen bottle of 100mg out of the freezer and it thaws, should we be shaking the hell out of it to make sure everything is mixed before uncapping (what I do), or is this a bad idea as it will agitate the solution and increase oxidation? Sometimes if I'm impatient I'll immerse the bottle in warmish water a few times to get things flowing (not boiling though), likewise don't know if that gives the solution a 'thermal shock' and makes it oxidize faster or not?
Alright, now I'm feeling a little spinny, need to take it easy. Later for now
PS: I really need to get some box elder!
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Cyrus, the %s for all three of those manufacturers look good, from a purely %nic standpoint. However, MFS is the only one I found full lab analysis posted. Its the rest of the 100% that is key. At 99.92%, it is not likely RTS has contaminants that are exceeding what AEMSA would certify. If that is truly what he is getting, Randy is producing about the most pure nicotine around. It is probably beyond pharma-grade requirements in purity. MFS specs are also quite good, in terms of contaminants. Looks like everything would pass. ECX would probably pass too, but I would have to see the full analysis.
The MFS analysis is, however, from 2011. Chris no doubt has documentation for current lots, but they would each have to be checked. The posted documentation would be no where near enough for AEMSA certification, but I think all three of those vendors are very fastidious about the quality of their nic, so what the public sees is probably not at all the end of their stories.
This is from a purely AEMSA standpoint. If you are not able to tell the difference between MFS and WL, then Chris has probably changed his supplier in the last few years, but this is purely speculation. ECX is a very clean nic in my experience. Has a sharp taste, but it is pretty faint. Not as faint as WL regular, let alone Ice, but I do very much enjoy it. In terms of accuracy of nic levels, I have worked with two of these vendors, but they are all three spot on for nic levels.
Even with all the hullabaloo about Box Elder, I would recommend it. Too bad Brad is only taking orders for 2 L or more, and I believe only 100 mg. But I am savoring my stash...I think in terms of taste itself, I like it best, but some are not fond of it. Of all those discussed here, it would have the strongest taste (save for my 2010 MFS), but it just works for me. Sort of like a sharp "Hi there!!" I have only tested a couple samples from him since the whole debacle, but he seems to have gotten his house in order, and the specs I have seen look quite good. For this I am truly thankful. But then, the quality of his product was never in question with me, just the nic accuracy.
The MFS analysis is, however, from 2011. Chris no doubt has documentation for current lots, but they would each have to be checked. The posted documentation would be no where near enough for AEMSA certification, but I think all three of those vendors are very fastidious about the quality of their nic, so what the public sees is probably not at all the end of their stories.
This is from a purely AEMSA standpoint. If you are not able to tell the difference between MFS and WL, then Chris has probably changed his supplier in the last few years, but this is purely speculation. ECX is a very clean nic in my experience. Has a sharp taste, but it is pretty faint. Not as faint as WL regular, let alone Ice, but I do very much enjoy it. In terms of accuracy of nic levels, I have worked with two of these vendors, but they are all three spot on for nic levels.
Even with all the hullabaloo about Box Elder, I would recommend it. Too bad Brad is only taking orders for 2 L or more, and I believe only 100 mg. But I am savoring my stash...I think in terms of taste itself, I like it best, but some are not fond of it. Of all those discussed here, it would have the strongest taste (save for my 2010 MFS), but it just works for me. Sort of like a sharp "Hi there!!" I have only tested a couple samples from him since the whole debacle, but he seems to have gotten his house in order, and the specs I have seen look quite good. For this I am truly thankful. But then, the quality of his product was never in question with me, just the nic accuracy.
FWIW, the boxed elder's site is at least listing 500ml for $100. Heh... I'd need 4 more people to go in on that with me
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