Nicotine in Canada

[BlondieLocs]

...actually - this is NOT accurate. HC is NOT asking for someone to submit eliquid for testing in order to regulate it - they are asking for eliquid to be placed under a different set of laws - with the knowledge that no eliquid company or ecig manufacturer will ever be able to meet their requirements.

Again, I'm going to assume that you didn't read the posts following this one in the thread, but just in case, let me be perfectly clear... I'm pretty sure we're agreeing here.

I am saying that it is HC's claim that the "e-cig CONTAINING nicotine" is regulated as a New Drug under Division 8, Part C of the Food and Drug Regulations, and furthermore that "the delivery system within an electronic smoking kit that contains nicotine" would be considered the Medical Device.

We have different info here on the Schedule/Division of the Regulations. Schedule F Drugs include nicotine inhaled in doses of 4mg or less. A New Drug, in this instance, is a drug (nicotine) that "has not been sold for that use or condition of use"... which is what they are saying with the bunk about the differing methods of inhalation and absorption between the e-cig and approved Inhalers. Bottom line is still the same though...

Pharmaceuticals fall under an entirely different set of regulations and laws. New pharmas can only be submitted for testing by licensed, regulated laboratory's - and only after initial studies show possible therapeutic effectiveness in medical treatment. It's a very long process that can take years - even decades in some cases.

I also stated "HC's stance is that it is up to the sponsor or manufacturer of the device to provide the proof. They do not conduct trials or studies. All of the exempted NRTs have been approved because the studies were done, "proof" submitted, assessed and approved. This is extremely costly, but Big Pharma will pay for it. Most e-cig manufacturers (or distributors) either won't, or do not have the cash to pony up." (For these purposes, where I said "device" read: "e-cig CONTAINING nicotine")

I also agree with everything else you mentioned re: FDA. I was actually living in the US during part of the that whole debacle, and kept a close eye on the proceedings. (Including reading every one of the thousand pages is the epic thread on the topic...)

One of the problems we are facing is that HC has already decided the "device" is a New Drug. This means it falls under the Food and Drugs Regulations. What we want is for it to be regulated by the Tobacco Control Act. So basically, the same crap they went through (and still are) in the US, but they're a few steps ahead of us.

Or they could just leave us to vape in peace... but that's not gonna happen.

 

[Switched]

I wonder what the carrier for nicotine is in NRT inhalation devices???

Nicotine is not only absorbed in the lungs. True cigar smokers do not inhale, yet get a nic buzz from smoking a stogie.

I believe they believe that, it is only absorbed in the lungs because of the "known" that cigarettes contain ammonia to increase the absorption rate in the lungs to the blood stream. It is further believed (not verified) that cigars do not contain the majority of the remaining nasty chemicals contained in cigarettes and therefore why certain insurance companies do not see cigar smokers as smokers when it comes to insurance rates.

 

[Can_supplier]

I wonder what the carrier for nicotine is in NRT inhalation devices???.

You might not want to ask that..

Remember this product is coming from the same folks that market an anti-depressant as a quit smoking aid.

 

[Happy Jack]

I wonder what the carrier for nicotine is in NRT inhalation devices???

I actually remember reading a thread where Spikey was discussing this one! Total shocker! Found it in this document.

FDA approval package for Nicotrol Inhaler

-This study did NOT test for the TSNA's that are being criticized in PV's/e-cigs.

-Carrier of nicotine in this device is synthesized from formaldehyde, ammonia and acetaldehyde. All KNOWN toxins, but the device is FDA approved.

-hand to mouth habit in this device has proven to have a higher likelihood of reducing tobacco cigarette use

- ...the small amount of nicotine emitted into the environment is well below levels associated with adverse effects...

The carrier is called Pyridine from what I can recall and it is NASTY compared to PG or VG.

Vape Happy!
Jack

 

[BlondieLocs]

I actually remember reading a thread where Spikey was discussing this one! Total shocker! Found it in this document.

FDA approval package for Nicotrol Inhaler

-This study did NOT test for the TSNA's that are being criticized in PV's/e-cigs.

-Carrier of nicotine in this device is synthesized from formaldehyde, ammonia and acetaldehyde. All KNOWN toxins, but the device is FDA approved.

-hand to mouth habit in this device has proven to have a higher likelihood of reducing tobacco cigarette use

- ...the small amount of nicotine emitted into the environment is well below levels associated with adverse effects...

The carrier is called Pyridine from what I can recall and it is NASTY compared to PG or VG.

Vape Happy!
Jack

Ooh... YUM!

 

[BlondieLocs]

Nicotine is not only absorbed in the lungs. True cigar smokers do not inhale, yet get a nic buzz from smoking a stogie.

I believe they believe that, it is only absorbed in the lungs because of the "known" that cigarettes contain ammonia to increase the absorption rate in the lungs to the blood stream. It is further believed (not verified) that cigars do not contain the majority of the remaining nasty chemicals contained in cigarettes and therefore why certain insurance companies do not see cigar smokers as smokers when it comes to insurance rates.

This is one of the things that HC is arguing. NRT inhalers have different nicotine delivery and absorption methods, so cannot be compared to e-cigs.

 

[AlbertaClipper]

-Carrier of nicotine in this device is synthesized from formaldehyde, ammonia and acetaldehyde. All KNOWN toxins, but the device is FDA approved.

Good grief!!! I'd assumed it was PG. I still have a drawer full of those (unused) cartridges that I'd bought last year for int'l travel use.

 

[kanadiankat]

This is one of the things that HC is arguing. NRT inhalers have different nicotine delivery and absorption methods, so cannot be compared to e-cigs.

We're definately agreeing - singing two parts of the same song.

The "submit for testing" is where HC is doing the "nener, neener, neeeener" on the industry.

Electronic devices do not need to be submitted for testing to Health Canada.

Food products do not need to be submitted for testing to Health Canada.

Combining existing food products and by products (ie: PG,VG,flavoring,etc) and nicotine in doses below the regulation 4mg per dose - should also not require submitting to Health Canada for testing. ...unless there is some associated medical therapeutic effect.

What should be required is for Health Canada to actually do their job and create a system of regulations for eliquid manufacturing and labelling. It would be like any other similar product. Regulations would demand that safeties are in place for employees, conditions are sanitary and products contain what they say they contain.

"submitting for testing" is what happens with pharmaceuticals - and that's the wool HC is pulling over everyone's eyes right now.

 

[rachelcoffe]

We're definately agreeing - singing two parts of the same song.

The "submit for testing" is where HC is doing the "nener, neener, neeeener" on the industry.

Electronic devices do not need to be submitted for testing to Health Canada.

Food products do not need to be submitted for testing to Health Canada.

Combining existing food products and by products (ie: PG,VG,flavoring,etc) and nicotine in doses below the regulation 4mg per dose - should also not require submitting to Health Canada for testing. ...unless there is some associated medical therapeutic effect.

What should be required is for Health Canada to actually do their job and create a system of regulations for eliquid manufacturing and labelling. It would be like any other similar product. Regulations would demand that safeties are in place for employees, conditions are sanitary and products contain what they say they contain.

"submitting for testing" is what happens with pharmaceuticals - and that's the wool HC is pulling over everyone's eyes right now.

Agreed, Kat!!

Very well put.

 

[Switched]

I actually remember reading a thread where Spikey was discussing this one! Total shocker! Found it in this document.

FDA approval package for Nicotrol Inhaler

-This study did NOT test for the TSNA's that are being criticized in PV's/e-cigs.

-Carrier of nicotine in this device is synthesized from formaldehyde, ammonia and acetaldehyde. All KNOWN toxins, but the device is FDA approved.

-hand to mouth habit in this device has proven to have a higher likelihood of reducing tobacco cigarette use

- ...the small amount of nicotine emitted into the environment is well below levels associated with adverse effects...

The carrier is called Pyridine from what I can recall and it is NASTY compared to PG or VG.

Vape Happy!
Jack

Jack you made my day and kicked me in the nether regions all in one swooosh! LOL good news.

 

[Chime]

I for one am fine with e cigs staying as a canadian schroedinger's cat for a good long while. We all just gotta stick together to bash it through canadian customs heads, make their lives hell and they'll pick on easier prey.

 

[viktor]

I actually remember reading a thread where Spikey was discussing this one! Total shocker! Found it in this document.

FDA approval package for Nicotrol Inhaler

-This study did NOT test for the TSNA's that are being criticized in PV's/e-cigs.

-Carrier of nicotine in this device is synthesized from formaldehyde, ammonia and acetaldehyde. All KNOWN toxins, but the device is FDA approved.

-hand to mouth habit in this device has proven to have a higher likelihood of reducing tobacco cigarette use

- ...the small amount of nicotine emitted into the environment is well below levels associated with adverse effects...

The carrier is called Pyridine from what I can recall and it is NASTY compared to PG or VG.

Vape Happy!
Jack

LOL. The quote from that page is just plain wrong. Pyridine is very toxic and smells like fish. Nicotine contains a pyridine ring though.

From one of the links (http://www.e-cigs.co.uk/docs/E249A.pdf)

1,3-bis(3-phenoxyphenoxy) Benzene - 20.16% - Non hazardous
Ethanol - 0.50% - Highly flammable
Propylene Glycol - 51.21% - Not currently recognized as giving any health hazards. However, it is listed as a suspected respiratory toxicant, suspected skin or sense organ toxicant, suspected neurotoxicant, and a suspected immunotoxicant
3-Cyclohexene-1-menthol,.alpha.,.alpha.4-trimethyl - 0.45% - No information
Nicotine - 9.97% - Very Toxic in contact with skin ...
Glycerin - 15.02% - Non Hazardous
Vanillin - 1.25% - No information

So it's basically a Polyphenyl Ether (the first component)/PG/VG mix. A google search seems to confirm that Polyphenyl Ether is not hazardous.

 

[Happy Jack]

LOL. The quote from that page is just plain wrong. Pyridine is very toxic and smells like fish. Nicotine contains a pyridine ring though.

From one of the links (http://www.e-cigs.co.uk/docs/E249A.pdf)

1,3-bis(3-phenoxyphenoxy) Benzene - 20.16% - Non hazardous
Ethanol - 0.50% - Highly flammable
Propylene Glycol - 51.21% - Not currently recognized as giving any health hazards. However, it is listed as a suspected respiratory toxicant, suspected skin or sense organ toxicant, suspected neurotoxicant, and a suspected immunotoxicant
3-Cyclohexene-1-menthol,.alpha.,.alpha.4-trimethyl - 0.45% - No information
Nicotine - 9.97% - Very Toxic in contact with skin ...
Glycerin - 15.02% - Non Hazardous
Vanillin - 1.25% - No information

So it's basically a Polyphenyl Ether (the first component)/PG/VG mix. A google search seems to confirm that Polyphenyl Ether is not hazardous.

Thanks, Viktor!

I stand corrected!

I was surprised when I read that back when I started vaping in Spikey's original thread and after quickly browsing a few of the links about the content of the Nicorette and Nicotrol inhalers now, I see you are right. I never thought to question Spikey's research and no one else on the thread reported anything incorrect back then and then it was repeated more recently in that "fact" sheet I linked to previously.

My mistake. Sorry guys!

Happy Vaping!
Jack

 

[viktor]

Thanks Jack, chemistry is kind of complicated ...

On the other hand why doesn't Health Canada help find some safe carrier for e-liquid, to replace PG for ones.

Keep vaping!

Viktor

 

[Almighty]

It is just me or all of the mentionned Canada suppliers only carry 0nic juices, i live in montreal and would want to order/pickup some nic base anywhere from 36mg-100mg/ml

let me know please ^^

 

[Zurd]

It is just me or all of the mentionned Canada suppliers only carry 0nic juices, i live in montreal and would want to order/pickup some nic base anywhere from 36mg-100mg/ml

let me know please ^^

Most only sells 0mg but there's a few I remember that do sells nicotine liquid. Check the suppliers section in the canada subforum, check all their websites, I don't know them by heart since I DIY.

If you wanna pickup because you're out of juices tho I could give you some of my juices, I'm also in Montreal, just so that you can survive while you wait for your next order

 

[Gat]

I have yet to find a Canadian website that sells anything with nicotine I was still under the impression that the Nic fluid was banned from Canada until I ran into this Rep here who carry's nicotine juice, but I have still yet to see any updated info giving us Canadians the right to buy and sell nicotine fluid. So if any one knows of any Canadian site with nicotine fluid and any updated info I would be great full for it.

 

[Danesnpits]

I for one am fine with e cigs staying as a canadian schroedinger's cat for a good long while. We all just gotta stick together to bash it through canadian customs heads, make their lives hell and they'll pick on easier prey.

You are so very right! And trust me, we will be sticking HC into a bucket full of fish, and we will fish them out one by one, and throw them back to the sea. The fight to vaping freedom is on it's way for Canadians. Just wait and see! It's happening for us!!!

 

[Moonlightcsp]

Almighty I Still have a full supply of nic juices over 375ml, all new for $75 shipped, check the Canada classifieds for juices. I also have pics of what I have left, I use to DIY so everything is for sale mostly all new.
happy vaping
moonlightcsp

 

[Chinner]

Hey born against!

I'm in Toronto area, if youre looking to unload some of that 24mg stuff, especially the ry4, I'd be happy to take it off your hands! I'm suffering through a bit of a juice shortage also lol

Respond here or send me a pm if your interested, I can give you my number and emal!

Cheers