Nicotine debate

[afishhunter]

I quit smoking 9 year ago, by switching to chew. (Skoal Cherry, Berry, Peach, Apple, Citrus)
I started vaping about 7 or 8 months ago, to get off the Skoal.
It seems to be working, I have not had a dip in 4 months, and I've even managed to drop from 24 mg (the swill they sell at truck stops) to 6 to 18 mg.
Nicotine and caffeine are my two vices. So far, I have not had caffeine added to my juice, not even the Mountain Dew flavored.

 

[Lessifer]

alien Traveler" data-source="post: 18078901" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Really? When they said it?
Why a vaper should make things up?

If lots of people stop smoking but switch to medicinal nicotine products, it would be no more harmful than the existing use of caffeine

John Britton, Royal College of Physicians
BBC NEWS | Health | Smokers 'need more help to quit'

 

[Lessifer]

Do you check your BP often ? I have to. First thing in the AM 3 times during the day and right before bed. I chain vape at night and my BP is perfect. During a workday it spikes sometimes into the bad zone. Mornings are always good. My doc says to only worry if the average is bad. Spikes are normal but baseline high is higher risk. I hate seeing a 160/100+ reading but they are fleeting.

My spikes during the day seem to be stress related because I can chain vape at night and log a 120/70. It's unnerving being on meds at 47 but thankfully my dose is really low so plenty of wiggle room in the future. Pre-meds I was 160/100+ all day every day. I'm active eat solid, and barely overweight. Bad genes I suppose.

Not that often, usually only when I'm planning to do something, like give blood. I also use a lot of caffeine so my BP spikes in the morning after my usual coffee and vape. I haven't checked it regularly in the evenings, maybe I should. I am overweight though.

 

[crxess]

So, does everybody feel a difference with vaping vrs when smoking cigarettes? Like do you feel any different? Since I quit , and have told people I don't smoke cigarettes anymore they say well your still getting nicotine. I try explaining to them that nicotine isn't going to nessacarilly kill you unless you drink a bottle of juice or get a lot on your skin. Then they say oh well nicotine causes heart attacks, strokes. Even though i believe it doesn't and it is the mixture of all of the other things in cigarettes. What is everybody's opinion on this and what do you think? The real question is , do you think nicotine causes helath affects long term from a vape? FYI I'm on 3 mg of nic

I don't do opinion. I do Research and Nicotine is Safe used properly.
Nicotine in proper dosage is no more harmful than Caffeine.

 

[Alien Traveler]

If lots of people stop smoking but switch to medicinal nicotine products, it would be no more harmful than the existing use of caffeine

John Britton, Royal College of Physicians
BBC NEWS | Health | Smokers 'need more help to quit'

My apologies. I was wrong.

EDIT: No, I was not really wrong. College of Physicians said no such things, just one of its member said. Two big differences.

 

[Eskie]

Nicotine does cause blood vessels to constrict. For many that might not make much of a difference. For someone with vascular disease it may place them at an increased risk of developing complications. There are other people with a severe sensitivity to nicotine which results in restricted blood flow and frequently loss of limbs with any nicotine exposure, smoking or NRT of any sort. They are also typically extremely addicted, unable to stop nicotine use in any form, even in the face of amputation, which most folks would probably like to avoid (it's called thromboangeitis obliterans). So while nicotine itself may safely be used by many people it's not without risk. Plain fact. Then again, nothing is risk free, and each person must decide for themselves.


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[Lessifer]

My apologies. I was wrong.

EDIT: No, I was not really wrong. College of Physicians said no such things, just one of its member said. Two big differences.

John Britton is chair of the RCP’s tobacco advisory group, more than "just one of its member"'s.

 

[Lessifer]

Nicotine does cause blood vessels to constrict. For many that might not make much of a difference. For someone with vascular disease it may place them at an increased risk of developing complications. There are other people with a severe sensitivity to nicotine which results in restricted blood flow and frequently loss of limbs with any nicotine exposure, smoking or NRT of any sort. They are also typically extremely addicted, unable to stop nicotine use in any form, even in the face of amputation, which most folks would probably like to avoid (it's called thromboangeitis obliterans). So while nicotine itself may safely be used by many people it's not without risk. Plain fact. Then again, nothing is risk free, and each person must decide for themselves.


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You are correct, but in general when talking about things like this, what is meant is "otherwise healthy individuals." Bringing up someone with severe sensitivity to nicotine is like saying peanuts are not without risk because some people are allergic to them, which would be true, but would not be a valid basis for restricting the sale of peanuts.

 

[Alien Traveler]

John Britton is chair of the RCP’s tobacco advisory group, more than "just one of its member"'s.

Anyway, we cannot say that "Royal College of Physicians" has said that. One of it's members did. It's better to be precise, not make things up.

EDIT. Making things up is a prerogative of conspiracy theorists and fringe groups. Why vapers should do it?

 

[Eskie]

But it is fair to label something as containing peanuts so that rare individual doesn't die. I agree that in otherwise healthy individuals nicotine does not represent a significant risk. However, many of us came to vaping after decades of cigarette use, and the likelihood of preexisting vascular disease is quite real and if folks are going to make an informed decision, the facts must be known. Again, looking at the royal college of physicians position, there is a clear reduction in harm, perhaps as high as 95 percent, but it's not 100 percent, or elimination of all risk. Is a smoker better off vaping? Sure. Guaranteed risk free, no.


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[3mg Meniere]

So while nicotine itself may safely be used by many people it's not without risk. Plain fact. Then again, nothing is risk free, and each person must decide for themselves.


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It has been recommended that I avoid nicotine, because it reduces blood circulation to my ears. Right now, I am vaping at 2.5, and may quit the nic sooner or later. Such people with circulatory problems exacerbated by nic can always vape no nic, and taper quickly. But still the powers that be are trying to treat 0mg juices as if they were 36mg juices. Tobacco product?

 

[Lessifer]

Anyway, we cannot say that "Royal College of Physicians" has said that. One of it's members did. It's better to be precise, not make things up.

EDIT. Making things up is a prerogative of conspiracy theorists and fringe groups. Why vapers should do it?

Ok, to be precise, John Britton, Chair of the RCP's tobacco advisory group, the group that authored the report on nicotine without smoking, said "If lots of people stop smoking but switch to medicinal nicotine products, it would be no more harmful than the existing use of caffeine."

The official RCP report says:

Nicotine is not, however, in itself, a highly hazardous drug (see Chapters 4 and
5). It increases heart rate and blood pressure, and has a range of local irritant
effects, but is not a carcinogen.37 Of the three main causes of mortality from
smoking, lung cancer arises primarily from direct exposure of the lungs to
carcinogens in tobacco smoke, COPD from the irritant and proinflammatory
effects of smoke, and cardiovascular disease from the effects of smoke on
vascular coagulation and blood vessel walls. None is caused primarily by
nicotine. For practical purposes, as argued by Mike Russell in the 1970s, ‘smokers
smoke for nicotine but are killed by tar’.38 Although the nature and extent of any
long-term health hazard from inhaling nicotine remain uncertain, because there
is no experience of such use other than from cigarettes, it is inherently unlikely
that nicotine inhalation itself contributes significantly to the mortality or
morbidity caused by smoking. The main culprit is smoke and, if nicotine could
be delivered effectively and acceptably to smokers without smoke, most if not all
of the harm of smoking could probably be avoided.

So, again, to be precise, no one "made things up" they attributed a quote of a person to the institution which he represents.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Ok, to be precise, John Britton, Chair of the RCP's tobacco advisory group, the group that authored the report on nicotine without smoking, said "If lots of people stop smoking but switch to medicinal nicotine products, it would be no more harmful than the existing use of caffeine."

The official RCP report says:


So, again, to be precise, no one "made things up" they attributed a quote of a person to the institution which he represents.

We were talking about comparison with caffeine by RCP, that's it. It was made up. I do not see anything new in your post.

 

[DaveP]

I've never really gotten a serious nicotine buzz from vaping, even when I was vaping 24mg juice. I have at times vaped really heavily for a few minutes to see if it caused a sensation. We all know that woozy feeling that we've had when we hot boxed a cigarette in the break area and rushed back inside. Vaping heavy didn't hit me like cigarettes did.

I vaped 24mg when I switched to vaping and continued that for several years. Two years ago I tapered down and ended up at 3mg. It really wasn't a big deal except I went from 7w vaping to 10w at times. I still vary in that range to suit my taste.

 

[RandyF]

For me there is no debate, short of ingesting pure nicotine, it has not been linked to any deaths or disease, at least on any scale that means anything.

If people tell me vaping is still smoking my response is typically, "vaping has zero combustion, zero smoke and zero tar, so vaping is actually nothing like smoking." They never have much to say after that, just a disapproving glare.

 

[Lessifer]

But it is fair to label something as containing peanuts so that rare individual doesn't die. I agree that in otherwise healthy individuals nicotine does not represent a significant risk. However, many of us came to vaping after decades of cigarette use, and the likelihood of preexisting vascular disease is quite real and if folks are going to make an informed decision, the facts must be known. Again, looking at the royal college of physicians position, there is a clear reduction in harm, perhaps as high as 95 percent, but it's not 100 percent, or elimination of all risk. Is a smoker better off vaping? Sure. Guaranteed risk free, no.


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Of course a product that contains nicotine in it should be labeled as such, I've never seen one that isn't. And, not that the numbers really mean anything, but they said at least 95 percent, possibly 100. Also, nothing is guaranteed risk free. Which is kind of the point.

 

[VNeil]

But it is fair to label something as containing peanuts so that rare individual doesn't die. I agree that in otherwise healthy individuals nicotine does not represent a significant risk. However, many of us came to vaping after decades of cigarette use, and the likelihood of preexisting vascular disease is quite real and if folks are going to make an informed decision, the facts must be known. Again, looking at the royal college of physicians position, there is a clear reduction in harm, perhaps as high as 95 percent, but it's not 100 percent, or elimination of all risk. Is a smoker better off vaping? Sure. Guaranteed risk free, no.


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In fact the RCP did suggest the number may be as high as 100%. They also state words to the effect there is no known harm. The contortions of that 95% number thst some insist upon is getting tiresome.

 

[VNeil]

We were talking about comparison with caffeine by RCP, that's it. It was made up. I do not see anything new in your post.

Why are you so obsessed over the details of his writing style and ignoring the message he delivered? Oh yea, we've gone round and round in the past, you arguing endlessly against the idea that vaping is harmless.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Why are you so obsessed over the details of his writing style and ignoring the message he delivered? Oh yea, we've gone round and round in the past, you arguing endlessly against the idea that vaping is harmless.

You are missing my point completely. I am not surprised.

 

[VNeil]

Anyway, we cannot say that "Royal College of Physicians" has said that. One of it's members did. It's better to be precise, not make things up.

EDIT. Making things up is a prerogative of conspiracy theorists and fringe groups. Why vapers should do it?

That article clearly interviewed Britton as the author of the report and the chairman of the issuing RCP group. Who would you suggest could better represent RCP in this matter? To suggest he's just some guy that pays RCP membership dues... seriously?.... whose making stuff up? Are we really having this inane convo?