I do not believe that we should stop arguing simply because a decision is in the works. On the contrary, our arguments should be "ramped up" not toned down. How have Republicans been so successful in slowing and redefining health care reform? When the decision is on the table is when the arguments must be the loudest and the clearest.
NJOY to Discontinue Flavors, Takes Additional Steps to Prevent Underage Electronic Cigarette Use
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Argue all you want. It's not going to change anything untill we have indisputable proof that e-cigs are a safer and healthier option for smokers, not any more dangerous than NRTs and not desired by or targeted to teens.
People CARE about healthcare. The majority of the U.S. population doesn't care about smokers or e-cigs, other than "we" end up raising the cost of healthcare due to our "unhealthy" habit.
Arguments are pointless without indisputable proof to back us up. The FDA has all the proof it needed to convince the general public & legislators that e-cigs are dangerous. Until we can counter that, our arguments will fall on deaf ears.
Unless the manufacturers step up and do the testing/studies, all the rest of us can do is to try to negotiate better terms for whatever the government decides.
Political arguments are never won or lost based on "indisputable proof" they are won or lost based on "public opinion" and political capital. These are rarely, if ever, based on proof. They are based on opinion. This question, like all in American politics, will be answered by "who is the loudest." Right now that's ASH and the BT/BP lobby, not us. We are unoganized and cannot even agree which "lobby" represents our intrests.
So if we "just shut up and let it happen" -- it will and we won't like the outcome. Like legalizing MJ or fighting climate change, the fight must be loud and continue to be fought vigerously. Regardless of what FDA says or njoy and the courts agree to, we must not allow that to end the fight. It only will if we stop fighting.
Any organization that claims to support our right to use these products should become louder and more radical, not less so, in the face of these current negotiations.
Having run quite a few political campaigns in my time, I know change can happen, but it will not if those who desire it are willing to lay down and take what the powers that be are "willing to give."
If you think I'm advocating "shut up and let it happen" you've never read any of my articles!!
I never said to shut up. I never said to stop arguing.
My point is - just arguing and talking and complaining is going to get us nowhere.
But just watch what happens when a call for action happens around here. 50 people actually DO something - the rest just ..... and moan about how "wrong" it is for the government to tell them what to do.
If you think I'm advocating "shut up and let it happen" you've never read any of my articles!!
I never said to shut up. I never said to stop arguing.
My point is - just arguing and talking and complaining is going to get us nowhere.
But just watch what happens when a call for action happens around here. 50 people actually DO something - the rest just ..... and moan about how "wrong" it is for the government to tell them what to do.
Kristin--Your efforts are always apprecated. There are a lot of people that do get involved and you inspire many, so no need to concern yourself.
Sun
If you think I'm advocating "shut up and let it happen" you've never read any of my articles!!
I never said to shut up. I never said to stop arguing.
My point is - just arguing and talking and complaining is going to get us nowhere.
But just watch what happens when a call for action happens around here. 50 people actually DO something - the rest just ..... and moan about how "wrong" it is for the government to tell them what to do.
Kristen,
First, I do appreciate what you have done. And I have tried to pay attention to all your other posts. My post was more intended as a general observation. I didn't intend for it to be directed a you specifically. I see, as do you, the number of people on this list who like to b*%ch and then sit on their collective *ss waiting for "someone" to do "something".
As someone who has worked on political campaigns the majority of his life, I know how important it is to write letters, send emails, make phone calls, etc. I have seen how successful these tactics can be in making a difference. And PLEASE, don't discount the 50 or so folks that actually do act. Every political campaign I have worked with has some formula for what % of the electorate a single letter or phone call represents. If those 50 responses are targeted correctly they can be pretty powerful.
Everything in America happens because people complain. Once an issue become popular within a vocal minority, assuming that that minority can be counted on to vote consistently, the "proof" doesn't really matter -- recent events have even indicated the willingness of those in the research sciences to "create" evidence when it is needed to support funding decisions driven by political bodies.
What is needed, IMO, is an education campaign. How many PV users, even on this board are aware that some pretty serious rules may soon be in the making that will restrict or prohibit their ability to use e-cigs? How many do know and pretend like it "doesn't matter."
What is needed for an education campaign is $$ -- IOW a fundraising campaign. While many people are unwilling (I have no clue WHY!!) to write a letter, make a phone call, or even send an email to a congressman, they are willing to send $25/$50/$100 to support a "lobbying" organization that will "carry the message" to congress/court/legislature/etc.
I realize several such organizations are in their "infancy" but the track they seem to be taking is not to lobby the government for fairer treatment. Rather, from my read of what's available here as well as on the ECA web site, there is too much of a willingness to fit in to some existing regulatory structure.
Such an approach represents the path of least resistance. A tell-tale political sign of a group more concerned with financial interest than political victory. From the outside the ECA v. the FDA (or Big Pharma), represents an established financial interest colliding with a potential financial interest. All of us who seek the freedom to choose the e-cig, basically feel just caught in the middle.
Heaven help me . . . I know I'm too wordy. I do, honestly, appreciate all you have done and all you are doing. I just am unwilling to concede anything to FDA at this point. In politics, concession is loss, not negotiation.
RJ
There is no stigma associated with e-cigs for teens and young people...but I do not beleive, for a moment, that kids would begin an addiction to nicotine using e-cigs.
I'm 43 years old. I just started vaping about 39 days ago...the same day I quit analogues. All three of my kids have been sneaking cigs for a few years. Though nowhere nearly as addicted as me, they are not embarrassed to use an e-cig. In fact, they all asked for one for Christmas. My youngest boy just turned 18 and took his to school. His algebra teacher and counselor have since switched to e-cigs. My oldest boy(20) is an air traffic controller in the Air Force and has since "recruited" several of his co-workes into vaping. My 21 year old daughter also proudly tells her friends that she isn't smoking anymore.
Yes, we all prefer flavors..but my kids are using low nic and plan to wean themselves off eventually...that's more than I can say for myself. After 28 years of smoking 2+ packs a day, I can't imagine quitting nicotine yet...
Steve
Companies have every right to discontinue anything they want to discontinue and I have every right to never buy anything from them again and to find a retailer that will continue to provide me with my favorite flavors.
Since when was I not allowed to enjoy fruit and candy flavors? Did they send out a memo on my 18th birthday that I missed or something?
Anyway congrats anti smoking lobbies septuagenarians can't get wild cherry flavored tobacco while menthol and clove cigarettes were specifically left out of the laws that were recently passed against fruit flavored smokes.
Way to go on that, all the kids smoking newports would like to thank you for being completely incompetent and spending your time pissing in the wind as opposed to doing anyhting constructive
Since when was I not allowed to enjoy fruit and candy flavors? Did they send out a memo on my 18th birthday that I missed or something?
Anyway congrats anti smoking lobbies septuagenarians can't get wild cherry flavored tobacco while menthol and clove cigarettes were specifically left out of the laws that were recently passed against fruit flavored smokes.
Way to go on that, all the kids smoking newports would like to thank you for being completely incompetent and spending your time pissing in the wind as opposed to doing anyhting constructive
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