Non-smoker thinking of vaping

Status
Not open for further replies.

rolygate

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 24, 2009
8,354
12,405
ECF Towers
...........
Nicotine and caffeine are addictive.
............

Sorry old pal but you're a propaganda victim. Find me some credible evidence that pure nicotine has significant potential for dependence. There is plenty that contradicts you, I'll give you the refs if you don't know of it.

Purely on a personal note - that is to say, anecdotally - I agree about coffee from my perspective alone. Coffee withdrawal lasts 3 days for me, and I have measurable withdrawal symptoms. For nicotine I have none, now that smoking is many years in the past for me.

We know there is no clinical evidence for nicotine dependence, and plenty that that contradicts a statement that 'nicotine creates dependence'; but I have no idea about the situation with coffee as that (a) isn't my interest and (b) it has little or none of the massive health issues of smoking, AFAIK (not my area).
 

mosspa

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 14, 2014
394
707
Bonita Springs, FL, USA
I don't care what you do, but you are knowingly getting your students dependent on nicotine?

No, I an getting my students dependent on doing well in school and improving their lot in life. That they would choose better scholastics through chemistry is their decision. As rolygate has repeatedly instructed, nicotine does not itself produce dependence. If the results of taking nicotine lead to positive outcomes, should I lie to them and pretend that nicotine use is somehow bad for them, and that I'm a hypocrite, for vaping to improve my cognitive condition. Wake up and smell the science!
 
  • Like
Reactions: cckayne

Oberon75

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Oct 26, 2014
1,771
1,382
Roseville, Mi, USA
Wow, 14 pages since yesterday? I don't have time to read through that many pages, but will put in my two cents.

I wouldn't encourage vaping for those that aren't using it as a tobacco alternative. I find vaping to be far more addicting than cigarettes ever were for me. But I do it because it's supposedly healthier. I'm basically vaping constantly all day and it hasn't stopped since I switched 7-8 months ago.

I understand how one of the posters mentioned something like it helps them with anxiety. Basically they're using it as an alternative to medication, which I can understand.

If you're just trying to help with focus, there's other ways to do that. Eating certain foods or taking vitamins can help with that, or you can drink coffee which has actually proven to be good for your body to drink, as long as you don't use too much cream and sugar.
That's because you were a smoker. Cigarettes are a hell of an addiction which is why even months of being smoke free, I always relapsed. You are only craving the addiction that cigarettes created.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition
 

stevegmu

Moved On
ECF Veteran
May 10, 2013
11,630
12,348
6992 kilometers from home...
No, I an getting my students dependent on doing well in school and improving their lot in life. That they would choose better scholastics through chemistry is their decision. As rolygate has repeatedly instructed, nicotine does not itself produce dependence. If the results of taking nicotine lead to positive outcomes, should I lie to them and pretend that nicotine use is somehow bad for them, and that I'm a hypocrite, for vaping to improve my cognitive condition. Wake up and smell the science!

That's what doctors said about Ritalin...
 

rolygate

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 24, 2009
8,354
12,405
ECF Towers
Don't even start with the nicotine. If you want to concentrate get some coffee, if you want a buzz drink a beer.

Nicoteine buzzes are very short-lived and once you're addicted there isn't a much of a buzz

Luckily, no medics or researchers or even the usual paid liars have ever been able to get anyone 'addicted' to nicotine, in many clinical trials. You're just repeating propaganda.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cckayne

Oberon75

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Oct 26, 2014
1,771
1,382
Roseville, Mi, USA
Really? There is no such thing as psychological dependency?
You realize you could use that argument for anything. Right? I'm dependant on music and waste my money on Hi-Fi equipment and 24 bit master audio recordings. I also go through withdrawals if I go a day without picking up a guitar.

Because of this dependancy, are you saying I never should have listened to music?

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition
 

rolygate

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 24, 2009
8,354
12,405
ECF Towers
Holy crap the ignorance mosspa is displaying floors me.

I'm afraid it is the other way round. You keep on repeating the propaganda that the pharmaceutical industry pays for you to believe.

Please stop, or produce some sort of evidence. Smoking is addictive, in many cases, but no researchers ever succeeded in getting people dependent on nicotine, in multiple attempts, with high doses, lasting many months. Even though they'd win the lottery if they could show any dependence potential for nicotine.

This is the value of propaganda: shout the lie loud enough for long enough, and it doesn't matter how big the lie is, eventually they will believe it. Since I don't want to Godwin the thread, I won't give the source of that :)

"Nicotine causes addiction" is a lie on multiple levels. Just repeat that a thousand times and see if it helps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cckayne

stevegmu

Moved On
ECF Veteran
May 10, 2013
11,630
12,348
6992 kilometers from home...
You realize you could use that argument for anything. Right? I'm dependant on music and waste my money on Hi-Fi equipment and 24 bit master audio recordings. I also go through withdrawals if I go a day without picking up a guitar.

Because of this dependancy, are you saying I never should have listened to music?

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

That's up to you. Convincing others to become dependent on a substance is a whole other story...
 

Oberon75

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Oct 26, 2014
1,771
1,382
Roseville, Mi, USA
That's up to you. Convincing others to become dependent on a substance is a whole other story...
You aren't dependant on the substance though nor is it harmful. You're grasping for straws now. And shame on me for falling into your trap again.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition
 

Ablonz

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Sep 17, 2014
1,616
2,514
Frozen Tundra, WI Cheesehead
So, what would happen if one used nicotine as an aid to help focus better and then not use it at all? Would they focus less? If they focus less, would they go back to using nicotine to help them focus again? Would that cause an addiction to keep using nicotine so they can focus better? If they do not focus less, would that mean nicotine has no affect on the way one focuses? To be, or not to be? That is the question.
 
Last edited:

rolygate

Vaping Master
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 24, 2009
8,354
12,405
ECF Towers
Yes, actually. If it improves concentration-whether real or imagined, those who benefit will more than likely become dependent on nicotine to reproduce the perceived benefits; not physically, but psychologically dependent...

It's a good theory - but the problem is that it's been tested, multiple times, and no researchers have ever been able to create any level of dependency using pure nicotine (of course) in never-smokers (of course).

To say otherwise is to repeat propaganda. Better read this & the other pages there, maybe:
All You Need To Know About Nicotine
 

mosspa

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 14, 2014
394
707
Bonita Springs, FL, USA
Google as in "look for the information yourself"

I can't post links here and I'm not about to sit here for an hour to write you an essay to persuade you

In this thread, alone. There have been over 9 links posted, in this thread alone, to thoughtful internet sources that describe the actual facts surrounding nicotine usage, addiction and dependence. Many of these contain citations of primary references to the science on which they were based. That there isn't any science that supports the nicotine is addicting hypothesis, any article you could link that suggests there is would be promulgating a scientifically unsupported position, the banter here reminds me of all of the unsupported opinions of parents of autistic children on the effects of thimerosal in vaccinations being a cause of autism. Yes they really believe it, but that doesn't make it true.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cckayne
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread