Non-smoker thinking of vaping

[deckley]

Sorry old pal but you're a propaganda victim. Find me some credible evidence that pure nicotine has significant potential for dependence. There is plenty that contradicts you, I'll give you the refs if you don't know of it.

Purely on a personal note - that is to say, anecdotally - I agree about coffee from my perspective alone. Coffee withdrawal lasts 3 days for me, and I have measurable withdrawal symptoms. For nicotine I have none, now that smoking is many years in the past for me.

We know there is no clinical evidence for nicotine dependence, and plenty that that contradicts a statement that 'nicotine creates dependence'; but I have no idea about the situation with coffee as that (a) isn't my interest and (b) it has little or none of the massive health issues of smoking, AFAIK (not my area).

Propaganda?! You spread only the research backed by studies biased towards pro vaping! I could do the same thing for smoking tobacco, use only the studies I find that prove my point. Propaganda!?
This is the reason why no one should take any scientific "data" supplied here as serious. Your arguments are fundamentally flawed; you do not address the opposing view, I.e. nicotine and caffeine are addictive. You circle the wagons and site only specific sources that improve your stance on the subject. An argument is linear, my friend, not circular. You can't continually site one or two sources and expect any intelligent individual to believe you.
But that is the basic flaw of anyone's arguments; their unwillingness to listen, let alone think about the opposing side of said argument. No one ever wants to admit they can't see the other side of the fence, but it has to happen for real information and knowledge to surface. I smoked a pack or more a day for over 20 years, now I have cut back to 4-5 a day with the help of vaping. Obviously I don't want the world to believe my new love of vaping is as bad or worse than smoking tobacco. I don't think it is. But for people here to blatantly state that drugs that interact with your central nervous system (nicotine and caffeine, as examples) are not addictive at all, and the proof is in this one study or that one study or this member's university degrees and clinical testing is just plain ignorant. If you want to claim that no studies can conclusively prove either point, then fine, but for the sake of the sheep out there, please don't continue the propaganda bullet train you claim I am riding because I won't outright believe what you say.

 

[rolygate]

Ok, I am done here. Dr. Leary wants everyone to believe he knows what the truth is, and if he is an actually professor with some degrees in neurosciences and not a internet nut with nimble fingers and a decent grasp of the English language, then the millions of people who endure withdrawal symptoms from both nicotine and caffeine are just faking it.

Also, you must not know anything about chemistry, cause a 10% solution (100mg/ml) of nicotine will kill you tenfold. You must be superman to inhale almost 5%.

Oh ya, I am gonna get an unscrupulous doctor to write me a prescription for amphetamitnes so I can "cheat" and become a super genius.
Hopefully the members here realize fact from fiction, experience from theory, and make their own informed decisions.

This post is chock full of rubbish and propaganda:

You must be superman to inhale almost 5%.

Um, no, 45mg (4.5%) is the strength Intellicig and NJoy provide for beginners in their beginner-level products. To be accurate, nic strength usually chosen is a function of genetic tolerance x equipment transfer efficiency x mitigation of cravings.

Oh ya, I am gonna get an unscrupulous doctor to write me a prescription for amphetamitnes ...

You appear to be misquoting him. He is attempting, I believe, to see if students can be persuaded away from harmful illegal and scrip meds in favour of something that is proven harmless, non-addictive and beneficial (nicotine). Unless you think that tea is a bad idea.

.....and not a internet nut with nimble fingers and a decent grasp of the English language....

It's rather amusing that you seem to be transferring your problems to him. Most of what he says is absolutely true, and some of it is opinion but very well supported by anecdotal evidence (as not everything everywhere has been properly researched - it normally requires the chance of a serious profit for pharma, to get researched).

 

[stevegmu]

The word Philistine comes to mind. You can believe what you want, just don't push your beliefs as being facts, or true, without support for them. It really doesn't paint a pretty picture.

Getting students dependent on nicotine doesn't paint a pretty picture, either...

 

[mosspa]

I understand how one of the posters mentioned something like it helps them with anxiety. Basically they're using it as an alternative to medication, which I can understand.

That's my point. For some, it is a medicine, and a very therapeutic one, at that.

 

[Oberon75]

Propaganda?! You spread only the research backed by studies biased towards pro vaping! I could do the same thing for smoking tobacco, use only the studies I find that prove my point. Propaganda!?
This is the reason why no one should take any scientific "data" supplied here as serious. Your arguments are fundamentally flawed; you do not address the opposing view, I.e. nicotine and caffeine are addictive. You circle the wagons and site only specific sources that improve your stance on the subject. An argument is linear, my friend, not circular. You can't continually site one or two sources and expect any intelligent individual to believe you.
But that is the basic flaw of anyone's arguments; their unwillingness to listen, let alone think about the opposing side of said argument. No one ever wants to admit they can't see the other side of the fence, but it has to happen for real information and knowledge to surface. I smoked a pack or more a day for over 20 years, now I have cut back to 4-5 a day with the help of vaping. Obviously I don't want the world to believe my new love of vaping is as bad or worse than smoking tobacco. I don't think it is. But for people here to blatantly state that drugs that interact with your central nervous system (nicotine and caffeine, as examples) are not addictive at all, and the proof is in this one study or that one study or this member's university degrees and clinical testing is just plain ignorant. If you want to claim that no studies can conclusively prove either point, then fine, but for the sake of the sheep out there, please don't continue the propaganda bullet train you claim I am riding because I won't outright believe what you say.

These studies have nothing to do with vaping.

"It seems very safe even in nonsmokers," "In our studies we find it actually reduces blood pressure chronically. And there were no addiction or withdrawal problems, and nobody started smoking cigarettes. The risk of addiction to nicotine alone is virtually nil."
- Dr. Paul Newhouse
Director,. Vanderbilt University Center for Cognitive Medicine
April 16, 2014
http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/study-finds-nicotine-safe-helps-in-alzheimers-parkinsons/2175396
https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/ccm/files/ccm/SFN 2012 Poster MCI- Kamkwalala.pdf
https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/ccm/files/ccm/SFN 2012 Poster MCI3- Newhouse Chronic.pdf

"There is very little to no evidence for the abuse of nicotine when not delivered in a tobacco vehicle."
- Prof K Fagerstrom
http://nicotinepolicy.net/karl-fagerstrom/520-dependence-on-tobacco-and-nicotine

"Studies have shown that none of the nicotine replacement therapies - chewing gum, inhalers, patches - none of those are addictive. Nicotine is not addictive. The cause of addiction is the release of monoamine oxidase inhibitors, or MAOIs, along with nicotine."
- Prof Peter Killeen
Emeritus Professor of Psychology, ASU
http://www.statepress.com/archive/node/7194

"The changes that FDA is allowing to these labels reflect the fact that although any nicotine-containing product is potentially addictive, decades of research and use have shown that NRT products sold OTC do not appear to have significant potential for abuse or dependence."
US FDA
Nicotine Replacement Therapy Labels May Change
http://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/consumerupdates/ucm345087.htm



Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

 

[The Dog Guy]

Getting students dependent on nicotine doesn't paint a pretty picture, either...

Steve you are such a pot stirrer

 

[Oberon75]

Getting students dependent on nicotine doesn't paint a pretty picture, either...

I'll post this for you too.

"It seems very safe even in nonsmokers," "In our studies we find it actually reduces blood pressure chronically. And there were no addiction or withdrawal problems, and nobody started smoking cigarettes. The risk of addiction to nicotine alone is virtually nil."
- Dr. Paul Newhouse
Director,. Vanderbilt University Center for Cognitive Medicine
April 16, 2014
http://www.tampabay.com/news/health/study-finds-nicotine-safe-helps-in-alzheimers-parkinsons/2175396
https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/ccm/files/ccm/SFN 2012 Poster MCI- Kamkwalala.pdf
https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/ccm/files/ccm/SFN 2012 Poster MCI3- Newhouse Chronic.pdf

"There is very little to no evidence for the abuse of nicotine when not delivered in a tobacco vehicle."
- Prof K Fagerstrom
http://nicotinepolicy.net/karl-fagerstrom/520-dependence-on-tobacco-and-nicotine

"Studies have shown that none of the nicotine replacement therapies - chewing gum, inhalers, patches - none of those are addictive. Nicotine is not addictive. The cause of addiction is the release of monoamine oxidase inhibitors, or MAOIs, along with nicotine."
- Prof Peter Killeen
Emeritus Professor of Psychology, ASU
http://www.statepress.com/archive/node/7194

"The changes that FDA is allowing to these labels reflect the fact that although any nicotine-containing product is potentially addictive, decades of research and use have shown that NRT products sold OTC do not appear to have significant potential for abuse or dependence."
US FDA
Nicotine Replacement Therapy Labels May Change
http://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/consumerupdates/ucm345087.htm



Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

 

[stevegmu]

It's a good theory - but the problem is that it's been tested, multiple times, and no researchers have ever been able to create any level of dependency using pure nicotine (of course) in never-smokers (of course).

To say otherwise is to repeat propaganda. Better read this & the other pages there, maybe:
All You Need To Know About Nicotine

I don't make a living promoting vaping, hence my skepticism...

 

[The Dog Guy]

These studies have nothing to do with vaping.

"It seems very safe even in nonsmokers," "In our studies we find it actually reduces blood pressure chronically. And there were no addiction or withdrawal problems, and nobody started smoking cigarettes. The risk of addiction to nicotine alone is virtually nil."
- Dr. Paul Newhouse
Director,. Vanderbilt University Center for Cognitive Medicine
April 16, 2014
Study finds nicotine safe, helps in Alzheimer's, Parkinson's | Tampa Bay Times
https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/ccm/files/ccm/SFN 2012 Poster MCI- Kamkwalala.pdf
https://medschool.vanderbilt.edu/ccm/files/ccm/SFN 2012 Poster MCI3- Newhouse Chronic.pdf

"There is very little to no evidence for the abuse of nicotine when not delivered in a tobacco vehicle."
- Prof K Fagerstrom
Dependence on tobacco and nicotine - Nicotine Science and Policy

"Studies have shown that none of the nicotine replacement therapies - chewing gum, inhalers, patches - none of those are addictive. Nicotine is not addictive. The cause of addiction is the release of monoamine oxidase inhibitors, or MAOIs, along with nicotine."
- Prof Peter Killeen
Emeritus Professor of Psychology, ASU
Professor: Nicotine does not cause cigarette addiction | The State Press - An independent daily serving Arizona State University

"The changes that FDA is allowing to these labels reflect the fact that although any nicotine-containing product is potentially addictive, decades of research and use have shown that NRT products sold OTC do not appear to have significant potential for abuse or dependence."
US FDA
Nicotine Replacement Therapy Labels May Change
Nicotine Replacement Therapy Labels May Change



Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

Nice job Oberon!

 

[mosspa]

Really? There is no such thing as psychological dependency?

Yes, there is, and somehow it got entered into the modern definition of 'addiction'. If you reverted back to the pre-80s definition of addiction (i.e., promotes physical dependency), you would find that even smoking couldn't be clinically described as an addiction back then. Psychological dependency doesn't involve therapeutic effects. It involves some negative sensations that arise when stopping the substance upon which one was deemed psychologically dependent. To stop a treatment that is truly therapeutic would be unethical. Therapy means promotion of a positive outcome, ergo, if vaping leads to a positive outcome, whatever that may be (and I include smoking cessation here), it is a therapeutic activity. No different than yoga or doing crossword puzzles.

 

[stevegmu]

That's my point. For some, it is a medicine, and a very therapeutic one, at that.

Yet they don't become dependent on it...

 

[Oberon75]

Steve you are such a pot stirrer

Message boards = Addiction

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

 

[Ablonz]

Unless you think that tea is a bad idea.

I would recommend the user More Tea please as opposed to vaping as it would be a safer way to ingest nicotine

 

[The Dog Guy]

I don't make a living promoting vaping, hence my skepticism...

Neither does rolygate, Oberon, or mosspa...maybe you should check out what their creds really are

 

[R211]

Lmao, OP, you definitely do NOT want to vape 12 MG if you've never smoked cigarettes. If you're using a decent setup (ego battery with a tank is like bare minimum), you're getting a LOT of vapor compared to what people used to vape in "cig-a-like" e-cigs. I used to vape disposable cigarette style e-cigs which contained up to 18 MG. I would get a nicotine buzz after a few drags. I tried a 6 MG juice in my first ego and the first puff gave me a buzz.

They make 3 MG ejuice too. My suggestion is to vape 6 MG. It'll do the trick, you might actually find that it's too much if your goal is to chain vape to do smoke tricks, flavors, just the relaxing feeling of smoking.

 

[Oberon75]

I don't make a living promoting vaping, hence my skepticism...

So how about my links that have nothing to do with vaping?

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

 

[mosspa]

That's what doctors said about Ritalin...

Of course they did, and they said it because it works in kids that truly have ADHD. It's not Ritalin or the doctors that prescribe it if the diagnosis is incorrect. Why do you think college kids are using Adderall. It's because it works. Again, better living through chemistry.

 

[rolygate]

Breathing is required for life. Addiction to nicotine isn't...Encouraging those in one's care- such as students, to become addicted to a substance borders on criminal...

I think what he is saying is that some students are using illegal or scrip meds to maintain their scores, and he has suggested they try something a little less harmful. Given a choice, nic is preferable to speed IMO (by many, many orders of magnitude) but perhaps you don't agree?

 

[stevegmu]

So how about my links that have nothing to do with vaping?

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition

Lets see. here's from the first one-

"For starters, nicotine by itself isn't very addictive at all, according to Dr. Paul Newhouse"

Very doesn't mean not...

 

[mosspa]

Hahahahahahahahaha
Like a rat to cheese mosspa

Yea, I'm just argumentative today. I've got a very high strain ratio when dealing with true believers.