Every variable - final target amount, pg/vg ratios, flavoring amounts, etc. - has an effect on the final measurements.
- Tim
Not Gonna Buy Any More Premixed E-juice. EVER.
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Every variable - final target amount, pg/vg ratios, flavoring amounts, etc. - has an effect on the final measurements.
- Tim
Do most of you end up with ml levels like what I got? Does anyone get just straight even numbers?
Hello and good morning, the ob,
sorry, had to sleep a tad =) So, you're back at the confused stage, are you.
My last post was this:
You then asked:
PG and VG are cheap. Buy a liter of both and be done with it.
Yes, flavorings are usually PG based. But we will ignore that fact for now, we just add them on top of your personal base. That's possible because we use strong flavorings from Flavour Arts which need under 5%. So, instead of 9mg juice you might end up with 8,6mg juice, and you might have a 75PG/25VG ratio instead of 70/30.
After that question there was a lot of numbers posted and calculators - and then there was confusion again.
That's all not needed for a start.
I'll try it the other way around for you - I will post a complete list of things to buy with links and I will tell you what to do with it to get 9mg/ml nic base.
250 ml PG based 36mg nicotine base: 250 ml of 36 mg Flavorless Nicotine Liquid (In the drop down menu "First, Select Mixer Base" select "Propylene Glycol USP grade") Cost: US$20,92
1 liter PG: 1000 ml of Propylene Glycol USP Cost: US$16,25
1 liter VG: 1000 ml of Vegetable Glycerin USP Grade Kosher Certified Cost: US$18,75
3x Syringe 10ml: 10cc Luer Slip Syringe w/ cap
10x Syringe 1ml: 1cc Luer Slip Syringe w/ cap
13x Needle: 18ga x 1½" Hypodermic Needle
Flavorings: OneStopDIYShop Partners with Flavour Art
So that's roughly 60 american talers for a liter of 9mg juice - and you'll have some PG and VG left over for the next round. You should be able to find better deals for PG and VG if you really need to squeeze the purse.
Now here is all the math you need: You have 36mg base and want 9mg juice. 36 divided by 9 is 4. One fourth of your result will be nic base. The rest is non-nic PG and VG.
To create 10ml of 70PG/30VG base with 9mg/ml use:
2.5 ml of the above 36mg/ml nicotine base
4.5 ml PG
3 ml VG
Then, add flavorings as discussed.
If you really must have straight numbers, multiply everything by two:
To create 20ml of 70PG/30VG base with 9mg/ml use:
5 ml of the above 36mg/ml nicotine base
9 ml PG
6 ml VG
Then, add flavorings as discussed.
If you are sure about the nic strength of your liquid, go ahead and mix the whole stuff in one go:
Get a one liter glass bottle
Add the 250 ml from your nic bottle
Add 450 ml PG
Add 300 ml VG
That's a whole liter of 9mg juice right there. Use 10ml at a time and add flavoring.
For a start ignore the calculators - they will confuse you until you understand the details. When you buy a different strength of nicotine, go ahead and ask again or start using the calculator. THEN you will have mixed 1 liter of juice already.
Don't worry too much about possible mistakes in this setup - the worst thing that could happen is that you somehow manage to vape the pure nicotine base. You will notice it, but it won't hurt you. Worst could be 36mg/ml and that's not dangerous.
sorry, had to sleep a tad =) So, you're back at the confused stage, are you.
My last post was this:
You then asked:
PG and VG are cheap. Buy a liter of both and be done with it.
Yes, flavorings are usually PG based. But we will ignore that fact for now, we just add them on top of your personal base. That's possible because we use strong flavorings from Flavour Arts which need under 5%. So, instead of 9mg juice you might end up with 8,6mg juice, and you might have a 75PG/25VG ratio instead of 70/30.
After that question there was a lot of numbers posted and calculators - and then there was confusion again.
That's all not needed for a start.
I'll try it the other way around for you - I will post a complete list of things to buy with links and I will tell you what to do with it to get 9mg/ml nic base.
250 ml PG based 36mg nicotine base: 250 ml of 36 mg Flavorless Nicotine Liquid (In the drop down menu "First, Select Mixer Base" select "Propylene Glycol USP grade") Cost: US$20,92
1 liter PG: 1000 ml of Propylene Glycol USP Cost: US$16,25
1 liter VG: 1000 ml of Vegetable Glycerin USP Grade Kosher Certified Cost: US$18,75
3x Syringe 10ml: 10cc Luer Slip Syringe w/ cap
10x Syringe 1ml: 1cc Luer Slip Syringe w/ cap
13x Needle: 18ga x 1½" Hypodermic Needle
Flavorings: OneStopDIYShop Partners with Flavour Art
So that's roughly 60 american talers for a liter of 9mg juice - and you'll have some PG and VG left over for the next round. You should be able to find better deals for PG and VG if you really need to squeeze the purse.
Now here is all the math you need: You have 36mg base and want 9mg juice. 36 divided by 9 is 4. One fourth of your result will be nic base. The rest is non-nic PG and VG.
To create 10ml of 70PG/30VG base with 9mg/ml use:
2.5 ml of the above 36mg/ml nicotine base
4.5 ml PG
3 ml VG
Then, add flavorings as discussed.
If you really must have straight numbers, multiply everything by two:
To create 20ml of 70PG/30VG base with 9mg/ml use:
5 ml of the above 36mg/ml nicotine base
9 ml PG
6 ml VG
Then, add flavorings as discussed.
If you are sure about the nic strength of your liquid, go ahead and mix the whole stuff in one go:
Get a one liter glass bottle
Add the 250 ml from your nic bottle
Add 450 ml PG
Add 300 ml VG
That's a whole liter of 9mg juice right there. Use 10ml at a time and add flavoring.
For a start ignore the calculators - they will confuse you until you understand the details. When you buy a different strength of nicotine, go ahead and ask again or start using the calculator. THEN you will have mixed 1 liter of juice already.
Don't worry too much about possible mistakes in this setup - the worst thing that could happen is that you somehow manage to vape the pure nicotine base. You will notice it, but it won't hurt you. Worst could be 36mg/ml and that's not dangerous.
I use the same calculator as sinnyc uses. The best part is that you can save your recipe as a bookmark. Also, I don't know what droppers people use to get 20 drops = 1 ml because every time I measure flavors using the dropper bottles they come in, I get between 40-45 drops to a ml.
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It depends on the properties of the liquid. The 20drops/ml is for water. As the liquids get more viscous (say, like VG which is thick and gooey), the weight vs. surface tension required for the droplet to separate it from the dropper goes up, so thick drops will contain more liquid than thin drops.
Drops is meant to be a ballpark-y kind of measurement. If you're not hung up on exact measures, it works well enough.
Drops is meant to be a ballpark-y kind of measurement. If you're not hung up on exact measures, it works well enough.
Ok so my last post pretty much got shot down, so I will just ask right out
What price would u feel would be fair for a vendor to charge for 30 ml of premixed juice?
How much for shipping?
I see lots of new vendors popping up, maybe they could be a trendsetter, and set a price more ppl would feel good about paying? If we don't do anything to let them know, how can they change it?
I love all the ideas on this thread, but I remember not long ago someone started a thread talking about how overpriced mods were. That he knew for a fact that most mods were about $5-$20 to actually make and that we were basically being price gouged paying the $120 and up prices for them. Instead of support ppl got irate and very vocal about how modders had to be paid for there time, ideas, and skills. I guess my point is there should be a happy medium, of course u should get paid for being able to do something that someone else can't do, but I agree, I think that juice, mods and hardware are too high on most sites. And considering there are new vendors all the time, one of them would be wise to ask the community what prices they would like to pay. What kills me is most of the new vendors are members of ecf! And they vape, so they KNOW how overpriced things are, but some jump right on that bandwagon. I am waiting for one that will step away from the crowd, until then, I wait for sales and free shipping, because after all, I still need what I need, u know? Just my two cents...
What price would u feel would be fair for a vendor to charge for 30 ml of premixed juice?
How much for shipping?
I see lots of new vendors popping up, maybe they could be a trendsetter, and set a price more ppl would feel good about paying? If we don't do anything to let them know, how can they change it?
I love all the ideas on this thread, but I remember not long ago someone started a thread talking about how overpriced mods were. That he knew for a fact that most mods were about $5-$20 to actually make and that we were basically being price gouged paying the $120 and up prices for them. Instead of support ppl got irate and very vocal about how modders had to be paid for there time, ideas, and skills. I guess my point is there should be a happy medium, of course u should get paid for being able to do something that someone else can't do, but I agree, I think that juice, mods and hardware are too high on most sites. And considering there are new vendors all the time, one of them would be wise to ask the community what prices they would like to pay. What kills me is most of the new vendors are members of ecf! And they vape, so they KNOW how overpriced things are, but some jump right on that bandwagon. I am waiting for one that will step away from the crowd, until then, I wait for sales and free shipping, because after all, I still need what I need, u know? Just my two cents...
It's so subjective. There will always be people willing to pay premium prices for juice because they don't want the hassle/responsibility/knowledge to make it themselves. It's why restaurants stay in business - people are willing to pay for the luxury of not doing it themselves. To that end, you're not going to find a fair pricing scheme by asking people who happily do it themselves.
Now, back when I bought all my juice, I generally paid about .50/ml plus shipping, and being the cheap ....... that I am, I only ordered when I was planning on ordering a lot to save on shipping. Hope that helps.
Now, back when I bought all my juice, I generally paid about .50/ml plus shipping, and being the cheap ....... that I am, I only ordered when I was planning on ordering a lot to save on shipping. Hope that helps.
Point 1.
I believe that people deserve to get paid for their time and innovations. I just want it to be MY time and innovation.
If people are doing small, well made batches of e-liquid then some of these prices that are being complained about arent that greedy really. Consider the markup that we willingly accept at a restaurant.
Point 2.
As we complain about the prices of everything, I think that we might learn from history a bit assume that this time in vaping history will be very soon be considered the "good ol days" because once the FDA gets into this, nicotine availability to us may go away entirely, or become prohibitively expensive.
Point 3.
The tobacco industry are idiots to not be in the vaping game already. When they finally figure out what they are losing, their friends in Washington, will drop the hammer on us bigtime.
...I am making myself worried now... Gonna go buy a few liters of 100mg nicjuice. LOL
Thanks again for this thread everyone!
I believe that people deserve to get paid for their time and innovations. I just want it to be MY time and innovation.
If people are doing small, well made batches of e-liquid then some of these prices that are being complained about arent that greedy really. Consider the markup that we willingly accept at a restaurant.
Point 2.
As we complain about the prices of everything, I think that we might learn from history a bit assume that this time in vaping history will be very soon be considered the "good ol days" because once the FDA gets into this, nicotine availability to us may go away entirely, or become prohibitively expensive.
Point 3.
The tobacco industry are idiots to not be in the vaping game already. When they finally figure out what they are losing, their friends in Washington, will drop the hammer on us bigtime.
...I am making myself worried now... Gonna go buy a few liters of 100mg nicjuice. LOL
Thanks again for this thread everyone!
Also, I don't think you can compare price reaction of mods vs price reaction of juice - one's a durable good, one's a consumable good. Consumable goods will always be viewed as cheaper than durable goods because in the end, you'll have nothing to show for a consumable. Apples and oranges when it comes to perception and value.
I went to Texas Roadhouse with my family last week. I always split a plate with my wife and she orders whatever she wants. I'm not picky and we both eat small portions.
She order the grilled pork chops which are normally very good, but that time turned out to be ho hum bland. My wife asked the waitress what was up with the chops and wound up sending them back and getting ribs instead. We didn't pay for those chops.
It's a shame I can't send non-tasty juice back to the kitchen.
Yes, I understand why that wouldn't work.
She order the grilled pork chops which are normally very good, but that time turned out to be ho hum bland. My wife asked the waitress what was up with the chops and wound up sending them back and getting ribs instead. We didn't pay for those chops.
It's a shame I can't send non-tasty juice back to the kitchen.
Yes, I understand why that wouldn't work.
I pay $20.00 for 30ml of my juice. I only vape the one juice and have been since a couple months after I started vaping.
I've tried replicating the flavor but I can't. I've had friends who are big into DIY try and they couldn't. I'll keep paying the price because its the juice I love and wouldn't vape without it.
I love my honey beez
I've tried replicating the flavor but I can't. I've had friends who are big into DIY try and they couldn't. I'll keep paying the price because its the juice I love and wouldn't vape without it.
I love my honey beez
But you dont go out to eat dinner every night, so you still need to have food at home ( juice ) so like I do and have for some time now I buy a bottle of good juice from a very good vendor once in a while as a treat, but I still have tons of DIY and mostly mix all my own, the purchased juice is like a treat ( Ave & kvb )
Also it is best to have flavorings from not just flavourart.it but from Capellas, NF, TPA, LorAnn, so you can get a feel for the difference and be able to mix and match to the Recipes you either create or use from others.
It's also good to have some quality glass pipit's, flask, and glass bottles instead of plastic, I started using all glass to not only store everything in, but to also keep my DIY juice I'm using in, and I'm noticing my juice seems to be doing better then storing and using plastics. YMMV but my juice sure seems better to me since switching.
Also I dont agree with making up that huge batch of lower MG Base but instead keeping it in the 100mg and using a smaller bottle of the 100 and having to use less ml's or drops in each bottle you make or DIY, yes this isnt as safe and you have to mark your bottle well and know your using the 100mg and be careful but I like using this method better, just me and how I like doing it and have been for well over 2yrs now. Also I make up my liquids by adding all my flavorings/vg/pg/and any other additives first then test out my flavoring and how my recipe is before adding my Nic. This allows me to adjust until I have my DIY mix exactly as I want my ( Flavor Base ) and then I let that ( Flavor Base ) mend together for a bit, then add my Nic base. ( not as long of a steep required ) Just my version and works well for me
Also have been experimenting with some other stuff like the Lemon juice, vinegar, and some other food grade types of flavoring stuff that you would never think to add to juice that has been working considerably well, it's fun to think outside of the box, get a little creative with these other things and its pretty amazing just how good some juices can turn out
For me it's more about making my flavor base, I call it mixing the "soup" and getting my soup where I want it, adding my NIC base is the easy part
Also it is best to have flavorings from not just flavourart.it but from Capellas, NF, TPA, LorAnn, so you can get a feel for the difference and be able to mix and match to the Recipes you either create or use from others.
It's also good to have some quality glass pipit's, flask, and glass bottles instead of plastic, I started using all glass to not only store everything in, but to also keep my DIY juice I'm using in, and I'm noticing my juice seems to be doing better then storing and using plastics. YMMV but my juice sure seems better to me since switching.
Also I dont agree with making up that huge batch of lower MG Base but instead keeping it in the 100mg and using a smaller bottle of the 100 and having to use less ml's or drops in each bottle you make or DIY, yes this isnt as safe and you have to mark your bottle well and know your using the 100mg and be careful but I like using this method better, just me and how I like doing it and have been for well over 2yrs now. Also I make up my liquids by adding all my flavorings/vg/pg/and any other additives first then test out my flavoring and how my recipe is before adding my Nic. This allows me to adjust until I have my DIY mix exactly as I want my ( Flavor Base ) and then I let that ( Flavor Base ) mend together for a bit, then add my Nic base. ( not as long of a steep required ) Just my version and works well for me
Also have been experimenting with some other stuff like the Lemon juice, vinegar, and some other food grade types of flavoring stuff that you would never think to add to juice that has been working considerably well, it's fun to think outside of the box, get a little creative with these other things and its pretty amazing just how good some juices can turn out
For me it's more about making my flavor base, I call it mixing the "soup" and getting my soup where I want it, adding my NIC base is the easy part
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I am fine with spending up to $.50 per ML, and the vendors whose juice I like are within that price point. Like Dave/George, I try to purchase when I can purchase enough to get free shipping, and again, the vendors I do business with do give free shipping with a larger order. I have no desire to DIY, I am sure I could make something I could vape, but I don't believe I could make something that I enjoy as much as my favorites, so as long as I am able to order what I like, I have no plans to DIY. I have the best mods, my REOs, I have no problem enjoying excellent juice in them. 
But you dont go out to eat dinner every night, so you still need to have food at home ( juice ) so like I do and have for some time now I buy a bottle of good juice from a very good vendor once in a while as a treat, but I still have tons of DIY and mostly mix all my own, the purchased juice is like a treat ( Ave & kvb )
Also it is best to have flavorings from not just flavourart.it but from Capellas, NF, TPA, LorAnn, so you can get a feel for the difference and be able to mix and match to the Recipes you either create or use from others.
It's also good to have some quality glass pipit's, flask, and glass bottles instead of plastic, I started using all glass to not only store everything in, but to also keep my DIY juice I'm using in, and I'm noticing my juice seems to be doing better then storing and using plastics. YMMV but my juice sure seems better to me since switching.
Also I dont agree with making up that huge batch of lower MG Base but instead keeping it in the 100mg and using a smaller bottle of the 100 and having to use less ml's or drops in each bottle you make or DIY, yes this isnt as safe and you have to mark your bottle well and know your using the 100mg and be careful but I like using this method better, just me and how I like doing it and have been for well over 2yrs now. Also I make up my liquids by adding all my flavorings/vg/pg/and any other additives first then test out my flavoring and how my recipe is before adding my Nic. This allows me to adjust until I have my DIY mix exactly as I want my ( Flavor Base ) and then I let that ( Flavor Base ) mend together for a bit, then add my Nic base. ( not as long of a steep required ) Just my version and works well for me
Also have been experimenting with some other stuff like the Lemon juice, vinegar, and some other food grade types of flavoring stuff that you would never think to add to juice that has been working considerably well, it's fun to think outside of the box, get a little creative with these other things and its pretty amazing just how good some juices can turn out
For me it's more about making my flavor base, I call it mixing the "soup" and getting my soup where I want it, adding my NIC base is the easy part
That's what I plan on doing as well. You don't waste the most expensive component (the nicotine) if you blend up a dud
Speaking of blends, does anyone have a suggestion for a tobacco base? I really like AVE's Gorilla juice and Vermillion River's KPB and I'm intend to make my own versions of those. No, I'm not asking for those exact recipes - although I'd certainly take one
. I'm really just hoping to get some solid, standard tobacco recipes and build off those.- Tim
My favorite tobacco blend so far is Bluemist's Robacco and Commercial blended at about 50/50. For a touch of smokiness, I'll add a drop or 2 of FlavourArt's Black Fire. I've mixed 4 batches around this base and all were winners.
I started accumulating DYI stuff and flavoring awhile back. Here is the first thing I made and is dirt simple. I still use it during the day at work.
I have two mixes - 70/30 (more vapor) and 50/50 (stealth vapor) vg/pg with 5% (+\- 1) ethyl maltol (caramelized sugar).
The trick to DIY is the hitting the exact percentages of flavors. Trial and error and good notes. The one above is hard to screw up.
I hate perfumery juices/flavors. There is nothing worst then licking a women's neck loaded with perfume.. Gag... It takes days to get rid of the after taste.
I have two mixes - 70/30 (more vapor) and 50/50 (stealth vapor) vg/pg with 5% (+\- 1) ethyl maltol (caramelized sugar).
The trick to DIY is the hitting the exact percentages of flavors. Trial and error and good notes. The one above is hard to screw up.
I hate perfumery juices/flavors. There is nothing worst then licking a women's neck loaded with perfume.. Gag... It takes days to get rid of the after taste.
Speaking of blends, does anyone have a suggestion for a tobacco base? I really like AVE's Gorilla juice and Vermillion River's KPB and I'm intend to make my own versions of those. No, I'm not asking for those exact recipes - although I'd certainly take one
- Tim
Thanks guys. I just realized that I posted this question here rather than in the DIY forum where I had another window opened, lol. I'm going to repost it there.
- Tim
I'd round that to a 3.9 ml. I find that tuberculin syringes are very helpful for measuring out odd #s or minute amounts of flavoring or nicotine. Makes it much easier for me to work with.
Amazon.com: 1 mL slip-tip disposable TB syringe, 100/bx: Health & Personal Care
Maybe it would be easier on you to start out with if your nicotine base was divisible by 9? Like 36mg/ml? Try that in a calculator and see if your numbers come out any better.
Now that is exactly what I do! I change my nic level so I get nice even amount! Would rather use a 5ml than a 4.67! You can make this DIY simple! I now make mostly 32mg, nice numbers with that!
This is what I am mixing, I am using 6% EM @ 80%vg. Time to order more EM, where do you get yours?
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